Guitar recommendations, please
 

For SonofV, who wants one from Santa.

He's going on (and on and on) about an electric guitar, he likes AFI, Fawlty Towers and Nintendo. Boy sized hands and no previous musical training whatsoever.

$20 student guitar from Toys-R-Us? Pawnshop speshul? "Oh look, a horse!"?

Help please.

Down there at the pawn shop
It's the only way to shop

I'm of the theory that you can buy a lad a full-sized guitar and he can play what he can play. Unless he's, like, five.

Don't buy a toy one -- for both your sake and his. It's too late for the bay, which is the ideal way, or rondomusic.net where you will find some level of "good enough" quality in really amazingly cheap Korean imports.

I'd say the Squier Bullet Strat. Only 100 bucks, you can probably pick one up at the mall. I know you could in maryland...

Age and stature would be useful info, but you can't go too far wrong with a Squier as a starter guitar. There are usually packages at Guitar Center and such that have guitar, tiny amp, tuner, strap, picks and such for real cheap prices.

Nothing wrong with a cheap rig for the very young. If he catches on with it, you can get him a suitable model down the road.

Thank you, gentlemen (no offense, Ibram).

He's about 5 feet tall, normal height/weight ratio.

So, that's axe, amp, strap, picks, tuner (?) and *headphones*, right?

Yes, and after the first week or two he'll want a cheap multi effects pedal from eBay so he can get a whole slew of tones.

How do I determine what's "quality" if I don't know? I'm certain I can't use $$ as the sole indicator. Are there smaller than fullsize guitars that aren't toys? I'm happy to get him a genuine instrument, student class, instead of the stringed equivalent of Schroder's piano. (Although Schroder could make magic with that little box... :))

All questions apply equally to the other parts of the setup, amp, accessories. I guess some things differ only comsetically, like straps and stickers and picks and posters, eh? And what should go with it? I mean in terms of instructional swag? Ernesto/Emilio/Juan "Gitar" Valdez or whatever the infomercial guitar pusher is on the tube... you know. A book? A video? A dvd? How about music? I guess he'll want to play like he likes to listen to. That's cool.

He has a few uncles (one died a while back) who are very talented guitarists. I'll seek their input as well.

Thanks again from Santa's helpers *wink*.

There are shorter scale guitars that are proportionally smaller, but if he's 5' tall he will have plenty of reach and can handle it.

Plus, if he likes it for a while but then sets it aside, he still has an instrument he can pick up five years later. When you're an adult and you pick up a short-scale guitar, it feels and looks like a toy.

Will you be using a ouija board?

On quality, you can't really tell. Cheaper guitars use cheaper materials and use cheaper labor to put it together. But it's not as bad as it once was: modern computer-controlled machining means that the cheap labor isn't responsible for the measuring and cutting and so forth.

to hit you over the head with? :eyebrow:

:mecry:


:p

you can get a playable guitar for $150. you can get one that won;t suck for $300. the amp....start with a small practice fender amp $89.

when i first started playing, i got a washburn. my dad plays, and knew what he was looking at, so i had guidance. i think he spent around $250 for the guitar. it was white with a black pick guard, and looked about as generic as it possibly could. i learned to play on it, and after a year, traded it in on an acoustic, and bought a stratocaster.

get a chromatic tuner that has an auto-off feature ($35-$45 well spent)

get a full sized guitar. there are plenty of 5' rock stars. ronnie james dio, flea, the guy from .....holy shit.....who did 'shout at the devil'? edit...motley crue! duh

the big thing, though, is lessons. find him a good teacher, and make him practice.

this is a big money pit if he just wants to look cool with it slung over his shoulder, so stay on top of his commitment to it. start cheap.

i think i'd go acoustic and see if he sticks with it before i started spending big $$ on the gear an electric requires. taylor makes a nice 3/4 scale 'baby taylor' to learn on. ($300-$350) acoustic guitars are considerably harder on your fingertips.....you gotta develop and maintain callouses.

edit: i don;t think i've ever seen a more self contradictory and misdirected post. sorry

dude, you;re fucked. i don't know what to tell you.

When Hubby and I lived in WA State we shopped at Columbia River Music in The Dalles, Oregon. Perhaps too far for you to want to drive from the Seattle area...but I would suggest an established local music store and the staff should be knowledgeable about instruments, books, lessons and such.
You could still purchase a nice guitar at a pawn shop (one of our fave places to shop for tools and DVDs, just shop carefully and check items over closely) have the guitar re-strung with fresh strings and purchase the other things at a music store.

I would HIGHLY recommend the earphones! He can listen to himself without subjecting the rest of the household to his noi...I mean, music. Best $ I ever spent for Hubby was on a quality set of headphones. He gets up at 4am and likes to jam before leaving for work...and this prevents him from waking everyone else up long before they need to get up.

I would suggest not spending a whole lot of money, until you know he LIKES this hobby, but do try to get good quality for him to learn on and then you and he can upgrade to better equipment if he appears serious about it.
hh

Machine-made vs. hand-made means lower $$$ for you, in a more consistent, entry or mid-level instrument. As a drummer, I'd know to say: get a Pacific (PDP) kit, the "import" version of a DW (expensive hand-made) kit. For guitars, I guess the equivalent would be a Squier, as suggested above. You're dealing with an experienced manufacturer, who knows how to build a proper professional instrument, and who can cut just the right corners to put a decent-sounding product at a lower price point. Later on, if the pursuit becomes more serious, you've still got a decent back-up instrument, or one that can be used for odd tunings, or left at a practice studio, or whatever. Or, he could stick it in the attic and give it to his kid someday. Who knows.

I guess I'm saying don't waste your money on a piece of crap of unknown manufacture, because #1 it will be discouraging to try to learn on an ill-tuning guitar, or one with bad action and #2 if he gets past the learning phase very far at all, he'll need something better anyway and you'll have wasted your $$$ on an un-sellable piece of firewood.

That being said my first response was going to be #1 pawn shop or #2 newspaper ad (in both cases, veteran musician lets go of one of his babies in order to earn a little holiday cash, either that or ex-hobbyist unloads expensive rig, or church band liquidating un-needed equipment)

Speaking from my perspective of 40 years of guitar playing/owning, most of them cheap ones, I can say definitively that cheap guitars have *never* been better than they are right now in terms of fit, finish, sound and playability. The difference between a $200 MexiStrat and a $1,000 American Strat is really pretty damn negligible these days. Mostly, I find that difference to rest with the electronics, rather than the actual body/neck/hardware on the instrument itself.

If you want to go a step up from a Squier, and still be economical (if indeed he is insisting on electric over acoustic), a Mexican Made Stratocaster will be playable for a long, long time, he won't feel like he's playing crap and when he gets older and has money of his own, he can step up to the "real thing".

Acoustic guitars are also at their highest quality vs price mark in my lifetime, and Dean makes some very attractive models, both in terms of price and appearance...and they sound nice. Washburn is another manufacturer whose low end products are outstanding.

Again, thank you all! lj, as usual, you're right and funny at the same time (have you been spying on me?!) SWMBO is pressing for $20 guitar shaped pinata from t-r-u..:(. Hell, it will probably make a *damn fine* pinata, come to think about it... Maybe he's been sneaking into my Who collection and wants to be Pete Townshend...

Will try to troll some p-shops today, report tomorrow. Youse guys rock.

I'm serious, dude, get a bullet strat, or maybe a non-bullet squier.

You can find good deals on starter guitars at Musicians friend or Music 123.

Washburn ( as Elspode says) for a good 'cheap' one and of course the Dean and Epiphone.

Report:

First, the bad news. SWMBO informed me that she's already purchased the $20 student guitar from Toys-R-Us. A moment of silence.

Now, last night's commute the normal 25 minutes, PLUS another 2 1/2 hours for fun. Well, it wasn't fun for the participants in the head on crash on the bridge *locking* traffic solid more than five miles away. Which limited my time in the pawnshop to about 5 minutes. I used the time well.

I found a dozen likely candidates, including two Squires, one black one blue each with white pickguards. No way to intelligently evaluate any other aspect. I also saw some recognizable names (I forget the actual name, bear with me) like "Pacifica" by *Yamaha*. I had to lookup the pacifica part and I might be wrong, but I recognize and respect the name Yamaha. There was another one like that, a Oobee Doobee by *Honer*. Ok, oobeedoobee was made up, but I recognize and respect the name Honer too. And an Ibanez. I did see some units that were obvious crap. Let's just skip those, m'kay?

Checked out the amps. A good sized Fender in my price comfort range. A couple of baby Marshalls likewise. Numerous units with names I didn't recognize much less respect.

Several pedals and effects boxes. One of the guitars said on the tag "... w/ gig bag". That sounds helpful.

Since the proprietor had locked me inside at this point, he asked if I was looking for something in particular. He allowed that he had several items in the back still. His shelves were fully stocked. I told him this was a (short) reconnaissance mission, but thanks.

Back home, SonofV and I had some quality time alone together and we watch an hour of guitar tv on the computer. One of the things I noticed was that during an image search of electric guitars, he IMMEDIATELY indicated he wanted "That one." pointing to the black and white Squire stratbody. Sweet. I think that's my number one choice. Then on to some music. Miss Murder we watched. "Dad, you hear that guitar there, right there? That's it." Then on to several other AFI videos, singing along, and showing me the guitar parts. He apologized for the lack of guitar example in Girls not Grey. hehehe. He pointed out a couple of Alice Cooper tunes too, Poison and Feed My Frankenstein. There's hope after all.

I was able to impress him with my knowledge of some guitar capable artists he'd not heard of before, although Google Video does distract from the guitar evaluation some, what with the video and all. He enjoyed The Ramones, The Clash, less so The Who, but I never did find a good video to showcase the guitar work. The Rolling Stones and The Sex Pistols were ok. He thought Dick Dale was pretty good, but "No words, Dad?" He was struck dumb by Steven Vai's Bad Horsie. Literally. He talked through all my choices but that one. Vai slayed him. Freaky video too.

So that's the sound he's seeking. We'll negotiate volume later.

The multi effects pedal will become necessary very quickly. He will want distortion and chorus and such.

I have a Boss ME-30 collecting dust, in near perfect condition, that I would sell you for like $50 because I don't have the power cable or original box or docs. It takes 6 AA batteries or you could get a universal AC adaptor. The docs are probably available from Boss.

...googling...


edit:
... I dunno... we do have these two cats... :crazy:

heh.. maybe I ought to read before I write huh?

Ok. Burned my remaining political capital and the $20 Toys-R-Us acoustic will be returned and I'm on the hook for the electric rig.

I've heard no feedback from y'all on the yamaha or honer units. Still interested in your input on that, but absent any more information, the b/w Squire is the current choice.

What else will I need? Is is unbelievably tacky to take my pawnshop guitar and amp to the local music store to have them outfit me with strings, etc?

Ok, I want a list of what he'll need to rock Christmas morning.

Guitar.
current choice is Squire.

Amp.
current choice is Marshall MB-30 (I think). I welcome more input here.

Tuner.
saw little vu meter unit for $10 in glass case at pshop. input please.

Cable (s).
no idea. input please.

New strings.
no idea. input please.


Picks.
I know what one looks like, input please.


XF box.
pending Boss unit.

What am I missing?

lesson books? or videos...

Earplugs!

The ME-30 has a tuner in it, but being in tune is one of the trickier things for new players to learn, and having a tuner gets you to the fun part faster. Your call.

Cable: cheapest the store has, to start. They can get quite pricey but a lot of the price is adding durability.

Strings: one set of light nickel to replace what breaks on the set that's on the guitar, then let the lad spend his allowance on new sets. If he enjoys the guitar he'll enjoy trying different brands himself.

Picks: infinite choice, completely personal preference for the player. Get a variable cheap set of three to start, and let the lad spend his allowance on new ones.

Stick with it. A fine starter electric without doubt. He'll be very happy.

Google says that that Marshall is a bass amp...probably better off with one of the 15-25 watt Fender combo solid states if you have time to get one.

He'll need one. If you buy UT's ME30, a tuner is built in. I have one of those boxes as well. Decent features. Not as easy to use as a stomp box array, but infinitely easier if you ever perform, once you've got it programmed.

Don't go cheap on cables. Get decent quality. I wouldn't go insane, like with Monster Cable, but don't buy the bottom of the barrel, either.

Ernie Ball Super Slinkies if he likes 'em light, but for a beginner, I'd get him a set with the high "E" no thinner than .09, and probably a .10 is better, lest he rip them off the fretboard.

I love the Jim Dunlop nylons. They come in fluorescent colors, and numerous gauges. I use the burnt orange (can't recall the gauge) for my usual needs, and the pale red as my "play quieter, please" pick.
I know what one looks like, input please.

Gig bag? Earplugs? Valium?

stand closer to the amp?;)

Oh. There's a difference, naturally. :smack: I'm going from memory, and I memoried the MB, but maybe they have an MG, the guitar-specific one.

Thanks all wrt the Squire, that's a lock now. Any similar input on the amp?

good one bs. v funny!

Good:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...mbo?sku=482799

Less Expensive, Lots of Features, Perhaps Not as Tough:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=480698

Behringer stuff is an incredible value for features, and I have had zero problems with any of their gear that I own or use regularly.

http://www.bothner.co.za/products/fender/fman15r.shtml

http://www.epinions.com/inst-Amplifi...splay_~reviews

A couple of review sites of the Fender Frontman 15R amp I'm getting for SonofV. This is not the Frontman II model which has line input for playing along with a cd, but does have reverb, which is cool. The guy I'm getting it from runs an acoustic guitar shop and he says he took it in trade and wants $35 for it. Sounded like a good deal. Plus, it has reverb.

In a surprising twist, I did NOT go to the pawnshop after all. I really prefer spending my money in my local community, and the guitar shop mentioned above is a mile from my house, so I stopped in. No electric. grrr. But he is on good terms with the local guitar house that does have electrics, American Music. Also local. For what it's worth, I agree that my pawnshop is also local, but I felt I could get more musical advice from a music store than from the pawnshop clerk. Probably.

Anyway, the fella was...cool to the idea that I wanted a used/inexpensive unit. They had Squiers all around (sorry about my previous misspellings), indeed there's a boxed KIT incl stratbody, baby fender amp, gig bag, tuner, etc for $280. I had already decided on the above Fender amp, and restricted my search to a used (yes, salesman, used, please) Squier. They had a few, stratbody and telecasterbody, single and humbucker, ranging from $100 to $160. I picked the $100 unit. Stratbody, 3 single coil pickups, dark dark blue with white pickguard. Rosewood fingerboard. He threw in a handful of picks and a whammy bar. I bought a stand, bag, additional set of strings (lightest ernie ball), 10' cable and (sorry UT) a Zoom G1 instead of a $15 tuner, since it has a tuner in it. Now I see I'll need an additional cable. By the time I'm done, I'll have kept the whole rig under $250. Still on my list is a strap, headphones, guitar instruction (lessons and/or video/dvd book and/or software)

http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/index.html

Plus, I read practically all of this guy's webpage. I am much better informed. Musicians can comment separately. This layman found his descriptions entertaining and helpful.

Santa hit this one out of the park!

SonofV exclaimed "My wish came true!!" and he carried that guitar around *all day*. He's not accustomed to being four feet wide and consequently smacked the headstock into doorframes, lamps and the dvd player knocking the disc askew and shoving the tray halfway in... no lasting damage, thankfully.

Turns out he got two guitars this year. MrsV didn't take back the acoustic after all, and it's a decent little guitar. Steel strings, and a small sized body/neck. One of the guitar uncles tuned it and played a few licks on it. It sounded just fine.

SonofV rocked out all day. The biggest problem was finding an outlet to plug the amp into. But when he couldn't find one, he still played. He got an AFI concert dvd too, and played that to death. Late in the day he called me into the room and said "Dad, listen. <AFI guitarist licks> <SonofV thrashing> I can do that part!" Hehehe. Not a question, a statement. It was great.

He got a very complete rig, axe, amp, fx box incl tuner, cables, bag o' picks, extra strings, gig bag and separate bag for accessories, headphones, stand. Now come the lessons. I have the card for a local teacher of electric guitar, but we haven't met yet. I think I'd like to get him something that he can play over and over on the tv, like an introductory instructional guitar video, at least to supplement the once weekly lessons. I may post some "concert footage" at some point.

I have to say thanks to Rob at Guitar Emporium. That's him on the left in the picture at the link. Really strictly an acoustic shop, he seemed very knowledgeable and very willing to help a clueless shopper, such as myself. He called down to the "competition" described earlier, and I brought the electric guitar back to his shop. I had discovered I hadn't gotten a strap, or a second cable to permit the use of the fx box. He offered to take a look at the guitar.

The first thing he did was sight along the neck and point out to me the swayback contour of the neck. Ick. A couple of turns on the truss rod nut (who knew?) brought back to true. He showed me how to fret the E string at the 15th fret and then check the string for play against the lower frets (he sure sounded like he knew what he was doing). Only then did he proceed to tune it--and it was rather badly out of tune. Which of course threw the neck out of (perfect) alignment again, then the tuning, etc, etc. But each adjustment was smaller than the last and soon the (fine) tuning of the strings did not adjust the neck and it was straight and in tune. Very, very nice of him to work that way on a guitar purchased elsewhere. To be fair, I did buy the amp from him (and a second amp, if you can believe it. A little Pignose with a couple of dead batteries. I have since replaced the batteries and now have another practice/travel/who knows amp. I secretly want it for myself to jam with SonofV as he plays the guitar and I play the harmonica. But I need a microphone first. I'm open to suggestions on that score as well. But I digress...) and a strap and cable. He earned my goodwill and my future business as well. I might stop in for one of those sweet Suzuki harps I saw in the display case.... :)

So thanks to all for the extremely helpful advice and support. I'll give irregular updates, should events warrant such. Like playing a tune, or getting signed or something.

So wait, how old is he, again?

(By the way, speaking of Bad Horsie... I nicked my sister's new Epiphone (so I could downtune, Floyd Roses are a bitch) and learned most of Bad Horsie a little while ago... can't touch the solos, though... only Vai can do that shit, man...)

That's ideal service, if the guy is willing to basically do a setup in front of you.

Well done all around sir! This little burst of encouragement is a wonderful thing, and putting joy and making music together will stay with him for his entire life.

Middle school.

Yes, in front of me, explaining all the while. I was a grateful sponge. And I will be a repeat customer. It's all about the service. That's **precisely** why I wanted to shop locally, and a music store in particular. Five stars--unquestionably.

Good service = future customer. Especially in the music biz. Well done, BV!

I'm thinking about learning to play guitar. I think I'd probably end up playing folk songs, mostly. I would like to be able to someday pick up mandolin and some other more folk instruments.

I've been going to a lot of folk dances and Irish pubs lately, and at some point I'd like to be able to sit in on some of the open band nights.

I need recommendations on what type of starter guitar I should get (acoustic, six steel strings?). I'm looking to spend between $100 and $300 USD. I'd also like recommendations on learning to tune a guitar.

That ought to impress her.

Impress her with folk songs, eh?

Stephen Bishop

:D

Sorry, Bruce. We're past the point of trying to impress each other.

And UB, not that kind of folk music.

C'mon, everything you've done since your aborted bike trip revolves around her. I'm envious, it's great to be young and in love. Enjoy.

:redface:

It is pretty damn good (understatement of the century)... [/hijack] So, about them guitars?

I have little experience in recent acoustics, but since you are starting from zero, your best bet for your money is probably craigslist or eBay.

The problem with spending a lot on your first instrument is that you won't know what you really want until you've been playing a year. People will tell you "play it! try it! go for what you like!" But you don't know what you like. After you've been playing for a while, *then* you can go play stuff and find what you like.

But if you find a used mid-level instrument of a name like Yamaha, Ibanez, Fender, or maybe even Martin, something that sold new for $500 eight years ago and they want $250 for it, you can hardly go wrong, that's what I would do. And if you can find a non-student CF Martin for $300, go for it.

Tune using an electronic tuner. Don't bother training your ears to do it, your ears lie. A hand-held electronic tuner is cheap now, even new. Korg is the king of this market.

Found two decently priced, good condition Fenders. A DG-25S for $200 and a DG-16 Dreadnought for $260. The DG-16 is cooler looking but the DG-25S has waaaay better reviews...

Ebay has a ton of guitars in my range. Too many choices.

Apparently the "S" part means it was part of a starter kit?

A starter kit for acoustics? What's included, a pick?

Ear plugs.

Hahaha. Damn right.

A strap, electronic tuner, picks, instructional dvd, stand, etc.

I picked up this for $175 (~$400 retail).

The thing I forgot to budget for?

Lessons.