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Football (Soccer)
Anybody here interested in football (soccer)? Particularly the English Premiership?
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WHIP picked Chelsea to win it and says nothing can prevent that.
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That is correct! It may seem like a two horse race, but there's really only one running.
More interesting things are happening throughout the premiership though. Sheffield United could drop all their players and play with a high school team and still avoid relegation. The clashes between sheffield Wednesday and United cannot go on anymore and they will always be sepeated by a division,so that they should never have to play against each other in a league math again. Liverpool remains the second best team in England and prove that in the Champions league. Lets be real, The Champion League is EVERYTHING in european football. Individual leagues are simply there for qualification towards the CL. Its ever level of the game as well, economical(We can sit down and argue about that one as most people have a lack of vision of how money is really made in soccer franchises). The great teams of Europe will litterally go to a league's weekend match to lose it when there's an upcoming champions league game to play. It seem like Wenger hasn't learnt that lesson yet, and has paid dearly for that mistake in the past, but it looks like he's still making the same mistakes. Arsenal is doomed with him at the head. Man Utd on the other hand has gone through a terrible couple years, holding one of the weakest middle lines in the premiership, but thats all changing now, United is rebuilding, and from what i can see, it looks like some excellent work.And it would have to be, for the standard that Chelsea has set is beyond reach. But don't be expecting UTD to be challenging this year....it is a false illusion. A team takes a few years to build, Chelsea has gone through those years, United is on its first. The Spurs are looking really solid, and may prove worthy of a Champions league spot. Aston Villa as well, but it looks like it may take 1 more year for them to gel perfectly. Charlton should manage to stay. City, despite the names it holds, does not look worthy of staying inthe premiership, although the may prove me wrong in the nick of time. Watford's falling obviously. Wigan! now there's a team to look at! the one and onl exampe of a team with a strange economical policy that allowed them to jump from division to division, until they reached the premiership, and now have shined ever since. The contracts...if you noticed the team while they were in the 2nd division, ou'd see that the players contracts were tiny, its like they had this thing where, the would only sign players that agreed on the minimum salary. When the were in the first division, their players were getting payed less than most teams in the 2nd division, and still they managed to progress. Teams will attempt to follow Wigan's example. >And whats this about West ham???????????? Jewish money coming in? Huge players on their way. Shall the Premiership be dominated by teams from London? |
It is a two-horse race. Chelsea aren't as good as they were last year, and while they're probably still favourites, they aren't guaranteed to win it. Manchester United (my team) are playing better than they have since we last won the title, and while it's true that the centre of midfield is a bit lightweight, Scholes and Carrick are talented, and our wingers (Giggs and Ronaldo) are the best in the world. The defence looks solid and we're scoring goals. The biggest problem will be the small size of the squad, I think. I'm not saying United will win the league, but we have a good chance.
Liverpool aren't the second best team in England, probably fourth; they're not good enough away from home; only one away win in the league so far. Same problem with Spurs. Watford and Charlton look certain to go down, along with another team, maybe West Ham, it depends whether they buy players in January. |
King, what's your opinion of FC united? Lot of my Man U fans have been paying it quite a lot of attention.
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Their doing quite well for a club of that size; they were promoted in their first season. I don't wish them any particular harm, but at the same time, I don't really support them. I can understand why the fans were angry after the Glazer takeover, but I think they should have stuck by the club anyway.
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There is no doubt whatsoever that the ONLY thing that Liverpool is looking at this year is the Champions League! They are by far, the 2nd English favorites within the competition. The team Liverpool was 5 years ago, is NOT the team that has been put together since then. Liverpool's managment has been the absolute elite amongst European teams, buying young talent with EXCELLENT scouting! That is the way to build a team, and Liverpool started this piece of art by working on the defence. There is no better place to start. What seperates Man UTD and Liverpool in reality, is that Liverpool is a team 5 years in the making, and Man UTD is a team in its develpoment, too many changes, it sets them a step back as far as Europe is concerned. The Poterntial is obviously there, but it will not come into effect until the team has had a year or so to gel. Europe is not England. Look southerly at Lyon (Lyonnais), there are superior teams in Europe than Man Utd and Liverpool, forget about Arsenal. With Chelsea of course the exception! |
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I can't say the same thing about Charlton though. There are reaons why I would wager on them being in the premiership next year. Would you believe the same thing about West Ham if Beckham played at the franchise come january? |
I'm not saying Liverpool aren't a good team, but being good in Europe and being good in the Premiership are 2 different things; just look at Arsenal last year, poor in the league (by their standards), but got to the Champions League final and could've won. Liverpool are definetly better in Europe than they are domestically; their manager Benitez is more suited to Europe. Their defence isn't that good; they've had big problems with their centre-halves this season, United, Chelsea and Arsenal all have better defences. They're not really 5 years in the making; Benitez has only been there 2 and a half years. I agree that they've bought well (Kuyt, Agger, Garcia), but they've also had some bad signings under Benitez (Reina, Nunez, Josemi, Pellegrino). I think United are more of a complete team, we're only lacking a more consistent goalscorer and a box-to-box midfielder. Liverpool may well do better than United in Europe this year; we're more focused on the Premiership, and our tactics are too cautious in Europe. Lyon are very good, and I think they'll do well in Europe this season, although I'm not sure they're better than United.
Out of interest, what leagues do you watch W.HI.P, and who do you support? |
I think Charlton are pretty likely to go down. They got hammered yesterday by Spurs, their manager is inexperienced, and their squad isn't very good. Their performance this year shows how good their old manager Alan Curbishley was.
It's difficult to know what the problem is at West Ham. They've got a good squad on paper, and a decent manager in Alan Pardew, but it just isn't working for them this year. There's been speculation that the arrivals of Tevez and Mascherano have unsettled them, but I don't think this is a big enough reason. They're another team who are poor away from home. If Beckham came it would make a difference, but I think it would take more than that at the moment. |
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First of all, this Liverpool ERA, does not begin with Benitez. 5 Years ago, Liverpool had a serious defencive problem. The Problem was caused by the way the team was being managed. At that point, KEY players came to Liverpool, and specific work was done as a team, strategically. The results showed immediatly in the goals against. From that point and other key purchases pre-Benitez were made, and from then on given to benitez to perfect. I do agree that Liverpool is a tad weaker than last year, but nevertheless, Liverpool remains a great team, and a champions league contender despite specific super powers who seem to have the uper hand like Chelsea and Lyonnais. The abscence of Italy who will most likely not make a mark this year, despite their general dominance of European football since the econimic changes within Europe. A swiff mention of Bayern Munich is a must, as they have systematically picked up all the precious diamonds within Germany. Quote:
Overall, I support Lazio and Lyon! I've supported Werder bremen since the 80's. The good, bad, and unbelievably amazing, I've been a fan of Chelsea. I'm a supporter of the one and only full-Basque franchise in Spain. (Bilbao) In other leagues, I may have more than one team I support, like hibs and Aberdeen in Scotland and so on. Exchange with me yours if you may. |
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I think you overrate Liverpool slightly, but I agree that they have a good chance of winning the Champions League. I’ll be amazed if an English team doesn’t at least get to the final. I only really support Manchester United and England. I’ve been to watch my hometown team Accrington Stanley in the past, and I still keep an eye out for their results. I also quite like Inter. |
You're being to specific with the years, 5-6 ..whats the difference?
I'm speaking off my memory, not looking at charts. If you were to look for yourself , you would see for yourself and understand without making specific remarks. Liverpool obviously had a defencive problem allowing 49 goals against. Arsenal that year had merely 17. Liverpools defence was worse than teams like Sheffield Wednesday(42), Derby County(45) and Everton(47). Your reference to Liverpools great defence in the 00-01 season, is proving my point exactly on how liverpool began working with their defence. You're obviously missing the point if you can't pinpoint Liverpool's years of weak defence, and the work that was done to fix it which i was refering to. I'm not overestimating liverpool in the slightest, I don't like the franchise, I never have. I do however look at each team without wearing blinkers as fans tend to do. You being a man utd fan, and not recognizing how much work needs to be done, will result in your disapointment this year, and most possibly next year. The plans for Man Utd being great as a franchise is scheduled for the 08-09 season. |
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Originally Posted by W.HI.P First of all, this Liverpool ERA, does not begin with Benitez, I think it does really. Of Liverpool’s current regulars, only Finnan, Hyypia, Riise, Gerrard and Carragher were not bought by Benitez. Who TF do you think it is that has brought Liverpool to greatness if not these specific pre-Benitez players you mention????????????????????????????? |
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No, were talking about the season that ends in 99, 6 Seasons ago. You can't count 2006, it hasn't happened yet, its in the making. Look, my point is, that the Base that Holds Liverpool up is 5-6 years in the making, the rest is all sculpting. Man Utd is building its base as we speak, it will take at LEAST 1 year, more likely two, before they can gel and reach their potential. How can you not be disapointed by the past few years? Sure, Rudd, was great. and Rooney, a great replacment. Saha, will fade. Respect in the United Defence these past years, no doubt. But you can't represent England in the Champions league with a weak middle line like Man Utd has had over the past few years. The idea of having Amazing Strikers does not impress me. Players that play at an elite level are Midfielders, and even more so, defenders. Now, it looks like they're in the right direction. Liverpool! Hyppia offered a lot to Liverpool and was a KEY in their success. S.Gerrard is one of the greatest players in the game. Capability wise~Leadership, position wise. He is a rare individual! Riise?? Much respect!! Carragher=proof of the point i was tryna make above about defenders! Strikers are expendable, for the majority of them last only a few years at the elite levels....few are an exception to this rule. To think how stupid Rea Madrid feels for picking up Ronaldo when they could have owned A.Nesta even today. The difference a wise person makes to a franchise. I insist, Wenger has to go!<<<<<---If ou want me to get into that, I can, specifically explain WHY, this man has to leave Arsenal in order for the team to remain alongside the Spurs for a champions league position next year. |
Ah, ok. Looking at the table for that year, their defence was poor, and it contained Hyypia and Carragher, although Carragher was young and relatively inexperienced at that point. 2-3 years later, they had the best defence in the league, after adding Babbel, Riise and Henchoz to the squad. But of that defence, only Carragher and Riise are playing at a high level really. Hyypia has been good for them but now is past his best. Liverpool are good, but I think they'll need to establish Agger as the new centre-half alongside Carragher, and get a right-winger; Pennant isn't good enough.
I am disappointed in United over the last few years, but this has been our best year since 02-03 already. They need a striker and a midfielder. Rooney isn't really a replacement for van Nistelrooy, Rooney is more of a second striker. Saha is van Nistelrooy's replacement, and I agree that Saha isn't good enough for that, but he is still a good squad player. It's the same with Carrick, he's good, but not good enough to be in the first team, and too similar to Scholes anyway. The defence and goalkeeper are fine for now. I see what you are saying about strikers often not lasting more than as few years at the very top, but I still think they're important. United shouldn't have sold van Nistelrooy, but they need a great goalscorer to replace him; Saha just isn't consistent and composed enough in front of goal. Real Madrid mainly go for attacking players anyway, but their squad is pretty good. Their main problem is the full-backs. We can talk about Arsenal if you want. How come its just you and me on here anyway? No other football fans on here? |
i'm checking in on you as i love to watch but i don't keep statistics or anything like that. i'm not a rabid fan of any one team, just love to watch any match really.
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No, not at all, thats a goverment thing.
You see, after the 84 massacre followed by the ban of English teams in Europe, England has taken greater measures than any other country. Things that cannot be controlled, like the Sheffield United-Sheffield Wednesday meetings, have to be stopped some other way. All I'm saying is that United will remain in the premiership until the year Wednesday simultaneously moves up, or drops another category. There's just no way that they would allow these two local teams to compete against each two or more times a year, to much bloodshed. Its not just the day of the game, the blood keeps flowing for weeks, even months after the game is played. |
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LMAO dude, no violence? What world do you live in? There is no official restriction, but mark my words! Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday will NEVER play in the same division again. Higher forces will make sure of that. King...You wish to talk about the premiership, and yet you lack common knowledge, and furthermore press a point that you are unaware of??? Whats up with you? |
i think we found the UK's version of TW.
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The higher forces I speak of, are the same kind of forces that stop war from happening. Like when the European champions Greece travel to Albania and Turkey. A greek win is forbidden. This is not in any rule book, but a greek win inside either country on the soccer field will never happen, and it has nothing to do with the players on the field, it has to do with avoiding war. These things are common knowledge to those involved, yet proof cannot be provided, apart from the results of the past years which you will probably call coincidental. Ask any Greek though, and they'll tell you why Greece will never win whenever they travel to that tiny soccer nation called Albania. What they'll tell you is that if a war ever broke out between the two nations, the Greeks would be slaughtered in their sleep, as there would be no invasion neccessary, Albania has already moved into Greece! If you chuckle at the notion of war coming from a silly soccer game, than it would be an ignorant chuckle in this case. ..but then again, wtf am i suppose to expect from someone who lives in England and is unaware of the bloodshed in your own league which you came here so desprately to talk about. I'm done with this thread |
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sooo, i may have to break down and spend more dough than i planned. i've been trying to get my hands on a Jay Demerit/ Watford Jersey, but because no one expects them to avoid relegation Watford Jerseys aren't carried through any of the major shops so if I want it I'll have to order directly from the team website. they, of course, want an arm and a leg, with an option on my left nut.
are lower quality team jerseys hard to find over there or something? I would have thought Ebay would have turned something up, but nada. |
If you find a source, I'd love to get some Tottenham Hotspurs gear for one of my shrinks.
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Yes, there has been trouble in the past between the two side. Yes, the teams have "crews" of hooligans with a reputation and the desire to spill eachother's blood. But the London teams have crews as well, and they play against eachother in the same city year in and year out. Also, why would this have kicked in this year (as King says, they played eachother last year) rather than at the height of the violence 4-6 years ago? I do also question the idea that it is "common knowledge". I've asked a Blades fan friend of mine and he's never even heard of this conspiracy. Perhaps if you could point us in the direction of some evidence (at least evidence that other people believe it) it would make it easier to credit. |
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http://sporting-goods.search.ebay.co...QQsacatZ137006 |
thanx!
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tottenham sux. just let him know.
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it was harsh, but playfully so. i'm currently wearing an Arsenal jersey. I also like Watford - and they REALLY suck. unfortunately not able to spend the money to stay in the Premiership for more than a season at a time.
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Lookout, how often do you get to watch the Premiership?
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as often as the fox soccer channel and my DVR allow. mostly it is only the top sides, so i don't get to see watford often. i'm a pretty big Jay Demerit fan (and underdog, in general) so that bums me out.
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A bit of searching about and under $15 later, I have a lovely Tottenham scarf in my hot little hands. I expect that I'll just make some comment about the doc seeming a bit chilled on his way into the office this coming Wednesday ...
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good call wolf
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Unfortunately Watford will probably go down due to the fact that they can't score, their main goalscorer Marlon King has been injured for most of the season. They're actually very good at the back though, DeMerit seems like a decent defender, at least for a team like Watford, and their keeper Ben Foster is on loan from Manchester United and he looks very good; hopefully he'll be our next regular keeper when van der Sar retires. I hope Watford stay up, but it doesn't look good. Maybe if they can get a regular goalscorer in the transfer window?
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Watford were one of my local teams growing up. I still have a remote affection for them as I went to watch them play at home a couple of times.
Incidentally I went to a Watford v Luton derby when I was in my early 20s - oh dear. It didn't quite put me off football, but it was a lesson in how real football fans (and decent men) can get caught up in violence not of their planning. |
The doctor was very surprised, and quite pleased with the Hotspur's scarf. I could go so far as to say he was quite chuffed.
I love it when a plan comes together. When he asked me how I'd pulled it off, I just smiled and said "Magick." |
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I realise that WHIP is Canadian, but if I may for a moment group and stereotype North Americans... (:eek: ) I find that here in the US, the only news about British sport that reaches the masses is football hooliganism, and that seems to be reported with great glee. Not only that, but the majority seem to believe that the Hillsborough Disaster was a result of "fan" violence. It's often cited as a prime example of British Soccer Hooliganism. :( For those unenlightened in North America, it was entirely due to poor planning, organization and stadium design. I went to the footy in the UK -the Sheffied rivalry is one of the most friendly ones afaict. Birmingham is the most fractious, in my experence, Manchester is a bit hairy, but so many fans are from outside the city that the real rivalries are actually kept away from the stadiums. In my (admitedlt limited) experience. |
Your assumptions about me are wrong.
Going to the whole N.American thing does not apply here. The violence between the fans from sheffield take place outside of the stadium, usually for months after a game. In 10 years from now, when they've somehow avoided playing in the same division, you can call it a coincidence, but I know better. |
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(Lived in Sheffield area for several years........ must've changed a whole shitload since I was last there......) I don't debate your expertise at predicting game outcomes -you clearly know your stuff- but your assesment of the "sheffield rivalry" is utter bollocks. It may be that those in power in the English Leagues share your opinion and fix games as per your prediction (doubt it, but then I don't believe in Santa or God either....) but that doesn't make the "alleged" violence potential any more true. The truth may be irrelevant from a gambling POV, but a win doesn't equal the truth. |
Why don't you go ask a cop from Sheffield to see what he/she has to say about it
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Why don't you back your story up if you have any kind of proof? At least point us in the direction of someone else who believes it too - no-one I have spoken to have even heard of it as a conspiracy theory. And again, you are missing the point that they were in the same League LAST YEAR. I think it would be considered a pretty sure bet that both Sheffield teams will play together in the same League in the next ten years. Perhaps I should go put a bet on that they won't - who knows, you might be right and I might be able to retire on my winnings at the age of 43! |
A cops not gonna tell you about a conspiracy theory.
A cop from Sheffield will tell you though why its neccesary to keep these two teams from competing against each other. I'm aware of whats going on in the third division in Latvia. You'd think I'd be aware of whats going on in the English leagues |
Lots of teams have rivalries....historic ones....some of those rivalries bubble up into violence at times (various derbies are known to be potential flashpoints). That said, I think W.HI.P is over egging the proverbial pudding here.
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The two Sheffield teams not playing in the same league for the next ten years wouldn't prove anything other than the fact that one is significantly better than the other. It may or may not happen. I'm not trying to be funny, but even if there was some kind of grand conspiracy, how would you know about it?
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This is not the first time that there has been an intervention as to avoid further violence.
Its quite common throughout Europe to take measures as to avoid violence, or even war. If you unaware about the second, i'd advice you to limiting your opinion as it would have no value. What is common practice throughout Europe certainly can't be considered by any means a conspiracy. What is common knowledge in circles that it reflects upon may seem to the average fan as something grand as you like to call it. I think its best that way. |
Well done on not actually answering the question.
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I answered quite clearly.
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Sorry, I was confused by the rather awkward sentence structure, but that's beside the point. So who do you mix with in these circles then? People from the FA? The South Yorkshire Police? And if a situation such as this, involving two English football clubs, were to be kept from the English football fans then I would consider it a conspiracy.
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W.HI.P....do you pick up any other channels through that tinfoil hat, or is it exclusively football related communications you're receiving?
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King, you wanna know who I am? what I do? where I live?...My adress maybe? ....My phone number possibly?
You want my girlfriends number while we're at it? oh, and don't forget my banking information and my credit card numbers. Anthing else? Grey undies today, but they're usually black. |
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To be honest, this Sheffield thing is getting a little boring. If anyone wants to talk about something else football related, I'll be more than happy to. |
good!
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This weekend was FA Cup 3rd round weekend in England, which is always good. 6 Premiership teams went out, Aston Villa, Wigan, Charlton, Sheffield United, Everton, and the holders Liverpool. The draw for the 4th round is:
Arsenal v Bolton West Ham v Watford Bristol City/Coventry v Hull/Middlesbrough Chelsea v Nottingham Forest Chester/Ipswich v Swansea Cardiff/Tottenham v Southend/Barnsley Barnet/Colchester v Peterborough/Plymouth Argyle Birmingham/Newcastle v Reading/Burnley Derby v Bristol Rovers Sheffield Wed/Man City v Southampton Crystal Palace v Preston Man Utd v Portsmouth Blackpool v Norwich QPR/Luton v Blackburn Wolves/Oldham v West Brom Leicester/Fulham v Stoke All-Premiership ties for Manchester United and Arsenal; they should both be good games, along with Chelsea vs. Nottingham Forest. |
I just thought some of you (particularly those in North America) would be interested in this:http://www.football365.com/story/0,1...829981,00.html
BECKHAM HEADS FOR LA ON £128M DEAL David Beckham will leave Real Madrid at the end of the season and join side Los Angeles Galaxy on a £128million (250 million US dollars) five-year deal. The former England captain will leave Real in June and begin his new career in Major League Soccer in August. Beckham said in a statement: "This week, Real Madrid asked me to make a decision regarding my future and the offer to extend my contract by a further two seasons. "After discussing several options with my family and advisers to either stay here at Madrid or join other major British and European clubs, I have decided to join the Los Angeles Galaxy and play in the MLS from August this year. "I would like to thank the supporters and people of Madrid who have made my family and I feel so welcome in my time here, making this an extremely difficult decision to make. "I have enjoyed my time in Spain enormously and I am extremely grateful to the club for giving me the opportunity to play for such a great team and their amazing fans. "I am proud to have played for two of the biggest clubs in football and I look forward to the new challenge of growing the world's most popular game in a country that is as passionate about its sport as my own. "For the rest of this season I will continue to give 100% to my coach, team mates and fans as I believe Fabio Capello will bring this club and its supporters the success they truly deserve." |
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