Ding Dong, the witch is dead
 

Santorum is out, out, out. :D

Who did you get rid of that tickles your fancy?

Wow. That is really great news to ex-Pennsylvanians. RA!!!

Santorum never saw a defense expenditure he didn't like. Borrow and Spend.

Polls are still closing in California.....

Lincoln Chafee an anti-war Republican gets tossed out

Joe Liberman a super-hawk Democrat wins as an independent after the party faithful boot him out in the primary...:3eye:


That seems an odd pairing to me. The War is casting a looong shadow over the other races tonight.

Chafee would have won if he hadn't promised his father not to switch parties. Too bad.

I'm happy to see Santorum, Blackwell, and Harris out.

Well, the Democratic and Republican party appartichiks both supported Lieberman. What do you expect?

As a North Carolina native, I still regret that we were never able to defeat Jesse Helms. I always hoped he would be beaten, rather than simply retiring.

Goodbye DeWine.. dont let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

Oh yeah! Thank the stars above. No more little dog in tall grass always jumping up to see what everyone else is doing! :thumb:

Control of the house goes to Dems. They're 2 seats away from control of the senate as well.

Save your pennies, Uncle Sam's coming for em.

Hold me, I'm frightened :(

Believe me, Uncle Sam isn't coming for MY pennies. I'm not the rich who got all the tax cuts. Why, I might even...uh...BENEFIT!

The dem tax rhetoric is SO old.

There, there. Just because Colorado got a Democrat for Governor and retained its Democratic Congressman, doesn't mean the world is coming to the end. Take comfort in the thought that we voted down gay civil unions, and defined marriage as an institution between a man and a woman only.

Then go into hiding

Jim Ryun received The Kiss of Death when Bush came to Kansas to campaign for him on Sunday.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/no...elections_2006

You'll get a bigger check if you're on welfare. If you pay taxes, though, you will pay more when Democrats have the reins. Wait, that's not entirely true this time around.....Republicans were spending money like drunken sailors. But now the death tax will come back, and my super rich parents will now pay taxes on the money they already paid taxes on when they die. Their financial planner estimated that their estate was worth about $300k before. With the inheritance tax subtracted, it's worth far less. I can't remember the number, but they told me last night that when it was divided amongst the 3 kids, we'd have enough for a downpayment on a modest house each. Thank goodness we have had all that extra ill-gotten gain taken from us and given to government programs. Now YOU can have some of it. Buy me lunch, at least?

Fuck you, noodle. I work hard for my money and have worked hard since I was thirteen fucking years old, having two jobs most of my adult life since college. I'm sorry about your poor rich parents (insert WAHHH here), spoiled little brat, but don't you dare ever talk to me about work, you namby pamby fuck. Sheesh I don't even want to fuck your brains out anymore.
Shit

Oh another thing you goddam idiot...I don't play tax break games or pop out kids to get more than 5 times the taxes I paid in back as a refund. I have paid out every year for the last ten years because I'm smart enough to know tax refunds aren't a fucking savings account, and having a second job makes me pay even MORE taxes.
You asshat.

Yeah, I'll buy you lunch after you suck on my big toe for an hour...dickwad.

Even if they win the senate too, and it looks like they just might, they will not have the reins. Bush has this thing called "veto power." That he hasn't used much at all. That's probably why you've forgotten about it.

What we will see now is gridlock, not control by Democrats.

Boo freaking hoo. Maybe Jesus will give your 'rents a tax break. You'd sneak him into this thread sooner or later, anyway.

Found a button there, did he, girl? :) You've completely trashed my view of you as a demure, shrinking violet type. :D (these are jokes, okay?)

Anyway, Missouri tossed out Rightist sycophant Jim Talent and installed a gritty, less than sparkling replacement in the form of our hometown girl Claire McCaskill. Claire has her warts, but she's got moxy, and she's always dealt with the nuts and bolts of our population. Past County Prosecutor, current State Auditor, and always very accessible and open. I'm looking forward to seeing if she can stick out the tough freshman stint in the Senate.

We also passed our stem cell research initiative, with about the same narrow margin of victory that Claire had. Strictly a party-line, sanctity of life/cutting edge research issue, so no surprise there. We squelched the tobacco tax, sending a message to our legislators that enough is frigging enough. It wasn't just about taxation, either, because numerous local sales taxes and school taxes passed statewide.

Change is good.

:redface: Yep, definitely found a button. I'm the nicest person in the world, until something makes me angry. I'm the last person you'd want to back into a corner, that's for sure. I went camping once in the Upper Peninsula and the joke was that no bear would dare mess with me! Kind of like Chuck Norris (damn cross posting again.)

Yikes! AP is reporting that Rumsfeld just resigned.

Hopefully more rats will leave the sinking ship.

Marry in haste, repent at leisure, or whatever folksy aphorism is appropriate.

I, however, will be able to say, "It's not my fault."

It must be a relief to be able to say that now.

I've been saying that for the last 12 years or so.:)

Bush is now making a speech wherein he is saying some relatively conciliatory things, making it sound as though bipartisanship is all of the sudden more important than it was yesterday.

My parents worked their asses off for every penny they ever made. They worked long hours, often past midnight, to provide for us. Not to mention, dad has just had a really difficult battle with a bad disease. He deserves far more than he's getting. No, I don't want freeloaders and welfare queens getting a dime of it, and that's the Dem base. I resent your insulting my parents a great deal, and it's really really difficult not to join the rest of my hypocritical Christian friends and tell you what I'm trying not to think of you. Welcome to my ignore list, at any rate.

Katherine Harris LOST bigtime in Florida..whew!

You accuse ME of being a welfare queen then take offense at jabs at your silver spoon? God you are something else. I'm SO sad you will be ignoring me.
What a piece of work.

My point was I work hard, too. YOU BEGAN THIS. Don't try to deny it. No wonder you make so many people sick.

Oh, and since I do'nt hide behind Jesus and Christianity like you do, I'm putting YOU on my buddy list.

You should check your facts, and get a new financial planner. This anti-death tax site's assessment in 2000 says

So they would pay nothing in taxes on their $300K.

What do you mean by this?

What about the cut that'll pay for the repubicans' "bridge to nowhere" and Jack Abrahmoff's portion? Don't even start me on the cost of the ill-advised war in Iraq.

No they won't. You will (or you would if the total was over $1.35 million), on money that is otherwise a freebie for you. It is organized to come out of the inheritance directly because that saves administrative effort and saves you money - if it counted as a straight gift, or other income, you would pay a lot more. And it is not money that you've already paid taxes on.

Spexx is right -- I checked, and the $300k is only the investment half of my parent's "holdings". There is also their house + 1 acre, and my grandparent's 28 acres of grass in TX. But that doesn't change the fact that every single dime of it was made by a guy who was told by his parents that he was too stupid to finish high school. He went into the navy, got the GI Bill, used it to start in college, and worked 2 jobs while getting a doctorate in industrial technology. He entered the highly lucrative world of teaching at that point. I remember when the best we could do for dinner was weiners covered in the cheapest cheese that could be bought. Not the same as digging in dumpsters, but humble enough beginnings considering where he ended up. He got a consultancy in the mid 80s that enabled him to make a better living in the summer, so he invested what he could and put 2 1/2 kids through college (I had to pay for most of mine because my grades were worse than they were willing to pay for :lol: ). Lots of hard work, lots of late late nights for many years. And yet they were both always around. That's a pretty remarkable achievement in my view. But apparently Shawnee wants a cut. Not just for her, but for those she feels are "owed" by the "rich". When she hears someone disagree, she takes personal shots at people who she couldn't even approach in terms of decency and kindness.

Enough arguing. I'm tired, and due for a little Cellar break. That will come as a relief to some of you, but I hope the rest take a look at who, consistently, are the players when hate starts getting thrown around. See you later, when I replace the layers of normally thick skin that people have been trying to fillet off for the past few weeks.

Setting aside the whole death tax argument, what is rich? $300k in assets? I don't think so, not for a lifetime of saving. I worry that we'll so disincentivise (sp?) saving that we'll all blow it off and end up on the dole.

I'm stuck on the death tax issue because I hate seeing people get money they haven't earned personally (any and all people included), but I also don't like the idea of the government just conviscating any money you don't spend while alive. (Hey, I suppose this could be spun to increase spending. After they pass 70 all those old codgers with 10M sitting around will have to drop it on stuff as fast as possible ;))

You make $600/month after taxes, Noodle? Damn, if I were you, I'd look for a day job. I'll save my $10.00/month (that's TEN) foood stamp card and buy you lunch if you're ever in the 4-corners area.

Richard Pombo, author of the bill to sell off Park Service lands to finance "education", is out out out!!!! And Wikipedia has already been updated :D

Noodle, your folks need a new financial planner. There are ways around the "death tax."

Well, noodle, you have successfully turned me into a bad guy in the eyes of cellarites, after you began attacking me when I pointed out that the tax breaks never affected me, therefore I would not be affected if some taxes were to increase (which, as I pointed out, is just another yawn in the "taxing dems" rhetoric that seems to be all you can point to.)

You accused me of being a welfare queen. Now you accuse me of wanting a cut. I have never asked anyone for anything. I have never taken a dime from a government program (for a short period of time some years ago I collected a couple months unemployment, but we taxpayers pay for that ahead of time.)

Everyone in my family has money. I have never been the ladder climbing type, choosing instead to work to help people get an education. It doesn't pay well. I live simply. I don't want to make a big profit on my taxes every year. I fill out my simple 1040A (yes, I fill it out, I don't go to HR Block for a rapid refund; I pay every year.) This is the life I have chosen. However, I am more than allowed to question you when you start with the "poor rich" routine, and use that as your only argument as to how bad the democrats are going to fuck things up.

I overreacted, yes. You hit a hot button. I am in a situation where I am counting every one of MY pennies to get my life in good order. But now you insinuate that I am one of the hate mongers around here. That hurts me almost as much as the fact that the cellarites who know my kind heart didn't say "whoa dude, you got that wrong." Though I will argue a point or two, and will come out of the corner angrily when accused of not being a viable part of society, I have more than once given support and caring to these dwellars who I only know through these messages, because I see the good in people. I had grown to really like you. Then you essentially called me trash. Why would I not react?

I give of myself every day. People I know think I'm wonderful because I always find the time to compliment, to listen, to smile. Your judgment of me, while perhaps casting shadows on the viewpoints of others in these threads, does not in any way change the person that I am.

You say you have me on ignore. That's just as well. You won't hear this any more than you hear anything else you choose not to hear. It seems that you have had disagreements, albeit often friendly ones, with other members, and this was your way of pointing a finger at how mean people are to you.

Thanks for all your support, my friends.

This is exactly why I avoid politics like the plague. You two are both good people in your own ways, one simple misunderstanding ignited a lot of "hate" and dissent. Why don't both of you take a deep breath and relax. It'll be OK.

If someone's *parents* make money, the *recipient* didn't earn it personally.

Why are you hung up on the "people getting something they didn't earn" thing? Society takes care of those who can't take care of themselves. If you were disabled, you would get the same benefit. Don't get me wrong, there'll be abuse of welfare, just like big oil getting corporate welfare when they're making gobs of money. Do you begrudge a single mother of three getting food stamps because the guy down the block is capable of working, but chooses instead to live on the piitance that welfare gives him?

[/QUOTE=mrnoodle]I'm tired, and due for a little Cellar break. That will come as a relief to some of you, but I hope the rest take a look at who, consistently, are the players when hate starts getting thrown around.[quote]

Since noodle is taking a break I know he won't respond to this but I'll say it anyway:

This is noodles modus operandi. He likes to try to get the wagons of the "good, decent" people to circle 'round him and he likes to throw punches at people who aren't even a part of the discussion. Noodle casts a pretty decent amount of hate around here himself. He excuses himself by couching it in terms of "I'm just a poor, sinning Chrisitian who often falls short..." so we're supposed to forgive him no matter what he says or does to hurt people. The people who hurt noodle are baaad, baaad people while he remains forever charitable and kind and most importantly well-meaning
and the rest of us just suck and go out of our way to harm him.

and BTW, my parents are fabulously wealthy. I don't rub my hands together in greedy glee thinking of all I'll inherit when they die. I guess I'm just not like that.

Oh, and another thing: I don't dislike noodle coz he's a Christian...I dislike him for himself. He's really quite the baby boy.

Thank you Brianna. I can't believe I let him get to me like that. You have put it back into perspective.

Having watched people (usu. my age and younger) with inheritances act as if they were Lotto winnings, any money not gotten by the Death Tax will soon enter the economy as taxes on other stuff.

You have to be fair: you have to look at the Death Tax in two ways. You look at it, first, from the inheritee's position ("free money!"), which says tax the hell out of it, appealing to the American instinct not to reward anyone who didn't earn it.

Then, you have to look at it from the original breadwinner's position. They (typically) earned the money in the economy; they (usually) did it by being productive and/or making good decisions that (often) grew the economy while the wealth was being used/invested. It's their money free and clear; they should be able to decide what to do with it, rather than to face one last time the gummint's slice. Particularly at death when one's lifetime should be honored and praised, if due, and not subject to the usual rude accounting.

That sounds like an argument against the gift tax as well.

And hey, the sales tax, too. The money you use to buy something was already taxed. Why should the government get one last slice just because you're picking up a new shirt?

Another thing to keep in mind is that an inheritance that is big enough to trigger the estate tax is usually primarily made up of tax-deferred money, on which tax has not been paid. The deferred tax is replaced with the estate tax, saving the inheritee lots of time, and possibly money.

As near as I can tell you're both good and decent people. We all get pissed about stuff. The cool thing about this place is you can always try again unless you cross the intollerable line, which is well over the horizon from your position.

disclosure: I am in favor of the inheritance tax.

The part that (actually, one of the parts) chaps me is the whole "I already paid taxes on it" argument. Money's not taxed, not even once. We use money to represent value, as a fungible, tangible hunk of value. And what gets taxed is the *transaction*.

You can have a stack of hundred dollar bills. But if you don't move them, they're not "taxable". They're also not very valuable either. Money needs to move to exercise its value. And it's that movement that is taxed.

You pay to cross the bridge, not for being on one side or the other.

I've heard pretty good arguments for big time confiscation of assetts after death centered on getting people to be productive in their own right. Thing is, these kinds of taxes will be avoided by the same kind of people that take their parents assetts before putting them in nursing homes at our expense. Tax laws ought to be enforceable. It does seem pretty callous to take a multi-generation business a family has poured its heart into. I'm pretty leary of the destructive power of taxes generally. Maybe we should look at consumption taxes... *shrug* I'm pretty tired so I may be making no sense...

I was lumping the inheritors of their parents wealth into that group of people that recieved money they didn't earn. I question the doling out of any sort of aid at the federal level, and would love to see someone get ballsy enough to tighten down on loose money faucets. Even if it costs more I think there would be some way to improve the continual processing of applicants and use the money saved to pay the extra people to do it. No money gained overall, but at least the money is going to people doing a job.
I don't know if society should take care of people who are facing hard times, I really see that as a responsibility of citizens. We throw so much stuff into the governments lap and then dust our hands off with a sigh of relief that we don't have to concern ourselves with it anymore.
Government wellfare will always be something to hang your head about, perhaps if people could be convinced to get their heads out of their asses we would be able to impliment something better:mad:

Government is the responsibility of the citizens. If more people would wake up and remember that the government is elected by the people in order to do the people's bidding, we'd all be a lot better off. Most individual citizens couldn't give a rat's ass about the poor and needy disabled. How much do YOU contribute to the local battered women's shelter? How about to programs for kids born with developmental disabilities. When's the last time you made aREAL contribution to a food drive for the needy in your area - and I don't mean just throwing a can of generic canned corn into a basket.

I am on SSDI and I don't hang my head over it. I worked and paid into the system for 30 years of my life only to become disabled and end up with a "benefit" of $671.00/month plus $10.00 in food stamps. The American people are so lacking in concern for those in need that its a national disgrace.

Why don't YOU get your head out of your ass and learn about the REAL world - especially in the country you live in?

It's hard....seeing you this angry.......But I have to agree with you, even so perturbed..When did government and citizen become so divided? It didn't. This is the point.I eagerly agree to pay my taxes for the less fortunate. I am a citizen, and at different points in times I have governed. I am not alone in this.
The head in the ass is a matter of perspective. And I think the world might be the common denominator.

Yes, good job Brianna. :thumbsup: When a couple of members go at a heated debate, the worst thing is people choosing sides..... contribute views and opinions, yes....but not taking sides based on popularity.

Go to hell, I'm not battering any women to supply any damn shelter. :p

Nice try, Bruce, but I already know how kind you are. You can't fool me! You are one cool dude. I am humbled before you. So there!

The Dems have the guts to Tax and Spend. Rebs Borrow and Spend is irresponsible. Carter closed the budget deficit, then Reagan put us into serious debt. Where do these Republicans get a reputation for fiscal responsibility? Just because you get another $50/month in your paycheck for your wife to buy more pillowcases and glassware? Your kids will need an inheritance to pay off the national debt when they inherit that.

I'd like to think they're done playing at that, but I know better.

Anyone know what income level pays the bulk of US taxes? Last I heard, it was the middle class, blue collar guys. Assuming that hasn't changed, then borrow and spend would put the bulk of the repayment on whom? That's right, the middle class.

Perfectly in line with the usual Republican thinking, as I see it.

In 2001, the top quintile (20%) averaged $133,700 in personal income after taxes. This group's share of the total income tax liability was 65.3%. The fourth quintile made ~$61,000 after taxes, and shouldered 18.5% of the income tax burden. The middle class made ~$43,700 and accounted for (drumroll...) 10% of the total burden. Second quintile paid for 5%, lowest quintile, 1%.

The top 1% of wage earners paid 22.7% of the total income tax liability. The top 10% paid for 50% of the total.


For personal income taxes only:
Top quintile ($133,700): 82.5%
Fourth quintile: 14.3%
Third quintile (blue collar working stiffs): 5.2%
Second quintile: .3%
First quintile: (-)2.3%

Share of [evil]corporate[/evil] income tax:
Fifth quintile: 82.6% (with 51.8% coming from the top 1%)
Fourth: 7.7%
and downward.

Congressional Budget Office docs

From Here

My emphasis.

I thought income was taxed, and not wealth?

It is, but this is another yardstick that shows how our tax codes are a much bigger burden on those who are not wealthy.

Whenever I hear the against arguments they are always in emotional terms, "they get free money that they did not work for!".
This is something that one, obviously, cannot know. Many/most young people help their parents in family endeavors, support them in many ways; both tangible and intangible. The same is true for spouses.
It smacks of envy, greed & malice. "I'm not getting a big inheritance, so no one should..." or "we should all get a piece of that"... sour grapes.
I am for either/or. Tax us when we get it or when we spend it, that's it, and only one percentage for all, across the board... no games.

Spouses don't pay estate tax. One of the legal benefits of marriage is shared estate.The estate tax is for when the inheritors get it. It is levied on the estate instead of each individual inheritor for several reasons, including simplicity and the management of deferred tax assets. Can you imagine inheriting a large portfolio of stock, and having to figure out what the original purchase prices were, to calculate the capital gains? All of that is replaced by the estate tax.

I do not pretend to know all the in's and out's... I just know that a flat-tax makes the most sense.
All pay a fair, even, percentage.