Cloning Bill Passes
 

The lead up article

Article

Just passes

I dont recall any cellar discussions regarding cloning, and I would be interested to hear your P.O.V's.

I think this kind of research is important. If it weren't for stem cell research, my aunt would be dead now. She had leukaemia and thanks to her having the courage to try and new technique involving stem cells being removed, altered and then replaced in her body she is alive and well today.

I am also in favour of embryonic stem cell research because there is no moral issue here for me. I am pro abortion so it would hypocrisy for me to be against embryonic stem cell research.

This is cause for much celebration and inebriation, seriously, I'm going to be toasting to this on the weekend. We in the US might have to wait a little longer but I knew this would come sooner or later. I think the strict 14 day limit is a little premature though, I think they're trying to cover their ass so no pictures leak out of clones that look like humans.

Missouri just passed - barely - an Amendment which will allow any Federally authorized stem cell research to be conducted in Missouri. The opponents, largely Right to life organizations, most of whom happen to also be Republican supporters, fought it by screaming about indiscriminate harvesting of eggs and exploitation of women, saying that it would lead to human cloning paid for with public funds, and the inevitable comparison to abortion.

OH for pete's sake, let's hope they don't clone mrnoodle.

The "debate" over this kind of research runs toward the sci-fi side...

I think it's a grrrrreat idea.

and so does my clone.

I want to be cloned so I can have a copy. That way I could go screw myself, as so many have requested. :blush:

Long ago, on TheOnion, they had an infographic on wacky Tom Cruise triva. One was: Had self cloned, so he can fellate self.

Anyone see "The Prestige"? Good movie.

NO! Don't say ANYTHING MORE! I'm gonna see it this weekend.

You'll enjoy it.

Prestige
 

Els and I went to see The Prestige this past weekend and really enjoyed it. We had it mostly figured out by the end, but it was pretty good.

I voted for the stem cell research yesterday and was glad that it passed. I think that a great many people can potentially be healed in the future, but we have to have the tools. I am personally against cloning in the sense of "The Island", however.

Selene

Another billboard that the antis had out during the campaign season said something along the lines of, "If Prop 2 Passes, Women Will be Selling Their Eggs".

Gosh. Can anyone tell me why they should *not* sell their eggs if they want to? I mean, they belong to them, don't they? Or have I missed something about egg selling?

$3.60/dozen here.

It does start to blur the lines a little, if you can buy human eggs and sperm it turns the embryos into something of a cash crop. I would keep it at voluntary donation and harvesting for personal use

mine are free range

$2.50/dozen

Good.

Umm... you already can sell your eggs. Google the phrase "egg donor." It's damn lucrative, in the thousands of dollars, because you have to go through a couple of months of hormone shots and an invasive procedure to harvest them.

The potential for abuse in cloning is limitless. But, like everything else, you can't stop it - you can only slow it down.

For some reason, I have a head full of cloning nightmare scenarios ranging from cloned cyborg armies grown in secret then sprung, the emergence of a new worldwide worker subclass with diminished rights, bio-mechanical computers with brain-stem controllers, pre-lobotomized testing subjects for "non-human" human tests and trials, the list just goes on forever.

Its all fun and games until someone unleashes an army of superhuman automatons. Sounds nuts, I realize but the theoretical obstacles are already being worked through in places far beneath the ground.

All things are corrupted and bastardised sooner or later. Why would cloning be any different?

Even abuse of adoption exists. Therefore we should also ban adoption? Same reasoning used for cloning. So much fear. So little based in facts.

Cloning of organs is evil or against the will of god? Yes, that is also hyped - fear of cloning being so widespread.

Even Dolly the sheep was not an exact clone copy. Furthermore, cloning appears to create life with more medical problems. Therefore we should ban all cloning? Again fear long before we understand the science.

We have standards for testing on humans. Same rules apply to cloning. As we learn more, only then need we apply more restrictions. But just like in stem cell research, the naive want to hinder the advancement of man - only because they fear.

Most ridiculous is that abortions would be widespread only because science wants stem cells. Therefore we should ban all stem cell research. Draconian nonsense leads to ridiculous reasoning.

Most promising would be cloning of organs - new kidneys or livers for the so many waiting (and dying) for a transplant. But even back when the first kidney transplant occurred, the Catholic Church then declared that transplant as original sin. Emotional fear of the unknown. Quietly, the church reversed itself.

We have so much to learn. That means we have so many mistakes to make and to learn from. Passing draconian laws only due to fear - without even learning the science - is akin to banning witches in Salem. To ban cloning means we should also ban adoption.

Would you object to me selling my kidney?

Remember, that selling implies a buyer and a market. With supplies such as these (kidneys, not eggs) in extremely small quantities, it makes sense that the prices would only permit the richest to participate. That's not always the same group as the most deserving, or the most likely to benefit, or those for whom the benefit will be the greatest.

I can't sell my blood, either, and that's much less "rare" than kidneys. Interestingly, I can sell my blood plasma.

I guess I'm ok with it--you can sell your eggs, Elspode.



edit: changed "can see my blood plasma" to "can sell my blood plasma". Both are true and one is marginally less irrelevant.

Here's a little story for you.

My cousin was killed in a riding accident at the age of 21. She was an organ donor. Now, there are parts of her that live on through the people she helped see, breath and whose blood she now processes.

This thought is comforting for me. Incidentally, it's her mother who survived cancer due to stem cell research.

Nope. It is yours to do with as you wish. I would advise against it, as you might need it later. That's why you have two. :)

On the other hand, maybe you'd better sell it before someone drugs you and you wake up in a bathtub full of ice with a note...

The selling of human organs has alot more going against it than just the idea that you shouldn't sell human parts, but that's a huge topic in its own right. Think past "it's your body, do what you want with it" and look at the consequenses of a system set up to revolve around organ sales (it would transition to one if we allowed it to)

What would the consequences be 9th?

One plausible example.

that's what they said about plastic surgery

The first is the plainest, profit's gonna start taking over who gets what. The second is that you are bringing the two worlds of the terminally ill and desperate and the unscrupulous folks who would be more than happy to supply organs at a tidy profit. The question is, when your resource is human organs, how do you bring your supply up to meat the demands? The key here is that the people on the buying end are desperate, that's going to put alot of power in the hands of the organ suppliers.

how many people are getting life saving plastic surgery? or life enhancing for that matter?

One last reason for cloning and stem cell research I forgot to mention. Food. We grow meat rather that grow and slaughter intelligent animals. Not only is that more human. It also increases food safety.

Somehow, those who use their religion to fear will find something wrong with this. It will be interesting how this innovation will be attacked only due to fear.

@tw: This might be an area where science and religion agree, such as the religious rules regarding pork consumption having a basis in pork being an unsafe food source at the time these rules were written (and only much later on this was verified scientifically), and, conceiveably, cloned meat being an unsafe food source at the time when religion might condemn such consumption (assuming that it does prove to be unsafe for some reason.)

Never forget the original purpose of religion and later of science. It is all about the advancement of mankind. Early religion was simply mankind's early attempts at what we now call scientific study. Those religions that got their 'science' more right therefore created stronger societies. Pork in warm climates without hygenie and refrigeration was that dangerous as both Jewish and Muslim religions proclaimed. They called it religion. Today we call it science.

When religion refuses to correct itself and refuses to admit to and learn from its mistakes, then that religion no longer advances mankind. Yes, the Catholic Church defined organ transplants (originally a kidney from one identical twin to the other) as original sin. Today that religion hopes you don't remember their obvious mistake. Religions don't like to admit they are fallible. Catholic Church especially insists the Pope is infallible. So how does he explain widespread and intentionally ignored pedophilia?

Meanwhile cloning – a new tool to advance mankind – may also provide better food sources. Those who religiously fear innovation would probably also fear this innovation.

Well plastic surgery was originally intended for 'life saving' type purposes. Severe burns, gross disfigurement from accidents etc.

The bastardization of plastic surgery occured when the wealthy started using it for their own benefit.

I still think this thread is called "Cloning Bus Passes" whenever I see it on the list ... :3eye:

Burn victims... quite a lot actuall, as stated above.
Religion has no place in making these decisions. This nation, in no way, is based on any religion and there is no room for religion within the state.