Post Content vs Appearance
 

Just out of interest:

Would someone's appearance change the way you read/ responded to their posts?

Following the various "Show Yourself" threads, people have responded - as is natural - approving of others' looks, calling them cute, saying they will flirt with them etc etc.

Now I have posted pic/ video, because I'm desperately nosey and love to see what other people look like. Given the choice I'd like a tour of Dwellars houses, offices, their family tree and a sample of their children's handwriting to boot. Therefore I feel I should show if I look (learned at an early age obviously!

But my question is, are we losing the one area where people are judged solely on their minds? And if we are, should we regret that?

Mmm.....good question. I have mixed feelings on this. Part of me wants to post a picture.....then again, I avoid going and looking at those posts because I don't want to know what people look like. I'd rather know how they percieve themselves to be.

I never thought it would matter, but I had a salutary experience when in my gaming days. I had a friend, who played a really evil, but deeply suave character. He had huge charisma within the game, everyone was drawn to him. Naturally, I formed a mental image of him.

Then I saw a picture of him. Now, it didn't in any way change my feelings of friendship towards him, but it did subtly alter the dynamic, when his physical appearance did not match the character he projected. I got over that quite quickly and reinstated that character in my understanding of him, but for a little while, it did get in the way a little.

Yes, and yes. I've resisted, for years, knowing what people look like on message boards (usually by not following a link). I've always valued the internet as a collection of disembodied minds, the one place where the things that seperate us are marginalized. I hear what you are saying, but I think, maybe the natural human tendencies are inevitable. I don't feel as strongly about it as I used to. I guess I'm de-sensitized to the idea.

I *love* being able to put a face to the sensibilities. I love it because *it teaches me not to judge a person*, in this case neither on appearance nor presentation. Getting that moment of " I would have never thought they looked like that " is an ongoing education on a subject at which I frankly suck.

That said, here are people whom I think look like their post content. :D

rkzenrage
foot3
yesman
Ducks


People for whom I had to adjust my preconceived image:

Shawnee123
Griff
Marichiko

I'm sure there's more in each category, but I probably should try to do some actual work today...

Cool. Now I'm so curious as to what your preconceived image was. This is neat because now I get to find out what my writing style conveys.

Hey - what bout me Elspode?

I don't think my opinion of anyone has changed because I don't - and never have - judged on appearance. Not being holier-than thou I promise - I never get a mental picture of characters in books either, even when I am totally in love with them. My imagination doesn't run like that is all. And even seeing the pictures I will never remember who is who....

But I believe I am in the minority.

I am like you, Sundae. People just look like what they look like. I've been in situtuations trying to describe someone to someone else...if they ask something like "does he have a moustache?" I often don't know...their face is just their face, you know?

I like seeing the pics, but I don't really make a connection between the persona and the image. If I have a preconception about someone's personality, I revert to that when I'm reading the post.

I also suck at putting names with faces, IRL and online.

Thats' a great way to look at it. Thanks, Elspode.

Well, therein lies the rub. I didn't have what I would think of as a *specific* image of you in my mind; no visualization or anything like that. It was more a, "Hmm...she doesn't look like I was expecting" when I saw your pic. I don't think I can explain it any better than that.

Sundae...in truth, based on your self-descriptions, I was expecting someone rather portly, and that couldn't be further from the truth from what I've seen. Not that it would have mattered if you *had been* portly, but we are talking about preconceived visual imagery, right? I find you lovely, quintessentially English, and, from all appearances, entirely approachable. At least, those are the descriptors that come to mind now that I've seen your pic.

I've made the same comment to others in the past, and everyone wants to know how you expected them to look. I guess I would want to know too.

I do understand - I think that was what I was getting at. You get a "feel" for someone. And even then they can shock you with an opinion. But is that idea of them nailed into place by the visual? For example I have the Blackadder script book - I can't hear anyone but the actual actors in my head when I read it.

BTW - thanks for the kind words Elspode - and I know with you the picture has nothing to do with it.

Ummm...you ignoring this, spode, lends me to believe you envisioned me as something much more than I am and you don't want to hurt my feelings. That, or you pictured me as a wart-covered, hairless, toothless, sloth-like creature and you don't want to hurt my feelings.
:sniff:

Absolutely *not*, girl! I think you're cuter than a bug's ear! No, I mean exactly what I said...that, although when I saw your pic, I thought, "gee, she doesn't look like I was expecting", I cannot say with any certainty what I *was* expecting.

Griff nailed it, there, but now I'll forge on and try to elaborate at least a little more. Your writing style is very fresh, honest and open. I think I was expecting someone...well...*younger*. In no way am I disappointed with the fact that you seem to be a grown up in the pic. Quite the contrary; I think that when a person reaches a certain age (now, don't put me on the spot and ask me how old I think you are, 'cause that's just gonna go bad for both of us) and is still able to seem so open and lively, displaying few traces of bitterness or hostility about their lives...well, damn. That's cool. But it skews my preconceptions to the younger end of the age/appearance scale.

I'm just digging myself into a really deep hole, here aren't I? How can I redeem myself? Um...you're very cute, Me talk you long time, love you many much long time. Yeah, that covers it, I hope. :)

:) And when you're done there you can explain how you read my mind....

Um...glatt. I meant glatt.

Shawnee I admit I had pictured you differently (after saying I pictured no-one!)

Because of your name I have always included you in the Aussie contingent. And because you have quite a I'm-A-Real-Woman-And I-Don't-Care attitude I expected you to be blonde (more the Aussie thing I think)

But what I have to remember is how people change when they speak. I saw a pic of one of my colleagues before she started work. B E A U tiful woman. And she had a really arrogant sneer in the photo. Then I met her and she became my best friend. Have seen that "sneer" since - it's a prelude to a smile! and the arrogant demeanour isn't there in real life.

Photos are life frozen into place. And life is never frozen til they cut your head off & put it in a cryogenic coolbox with the beers.

I am 42. Most people I tell my age to nearly fall over...I don't look 42 and I act about 12. Working at the college, I have friends of all age groups, and my 20-something friends think I am outright lying when I tell them my age. I guess that is good. I have a crazy sense of humor, and provide much comic relief in my office (when I'm not mired in depression.) I wouldn't trade anything in my life, and there are things I have been through that I can't tell anyone. But it all makes me who I am. The only thing I would change right now is to lose these extra 25 lbs so I physically feel as young as I mentally feel. That and move ahead a month or two so I am in my new place and starting my new life and getting things back on track.

Thanks for your kind words, 'spode and SG. I basically pulled acompliments out of you like a beggar, but you rose to the occasion nicely and I appreciate it.

I think you are both wonderful people. So many people here are! (Well, not BDu) :)

I have been trying to come up with a new sig line! This is awesome! :p

Too great an honour for me, chick. But did make me laugh

I'm also thinking of adding it to the quotes I have hanging in my office!

stevedallas looks like my mental image of griff

I've said from early on that elspode has a smoking jacket on in my mind. pencil mustache, ascott, and pomaded jet black hair.

sycamore was the one that fucked me all up, tho.

Pictures are interesting but it doesn't change the content or attitude in the posts.

I've been tromping the earth a long time, long before the internet, and one thing I've learned well. When communicating with women by letter, phone, internet, anything but face to face.....they never, ever, look as bad as they say(think) they do. :headshake

Well, Shawnee, I was going to guess 36ish, so there you go. I don't think that the appearance of youth means anything except that one feels and acts younger, and it shows on one's face.

Kinda like Dan Akroyd doing his sleazy impressario on the original SNL, huh?

no, more like the liar guy....john something....that does the actor bit

"I'M ACTING!"

Jon Lovitz. Master Thespian!

My mental image of BigV was way off, I pictured him looking a lot like Stephen Colbert with the white shirt and tie. It was odd how much he looked like another friend of mine.

I am coy about my age, but a funny thing happened the other night in line at the grocery store.

SonofV and I have just left the weekly scout meeting and we needed to get provisions for the upcoming camping trip, so off to Safeway. We were both still in our Class A uniforms, boots, over the calf socks, shorts, belt, shirt, badges, neckerchief, slide, the whole nine yards. Anyway, SonofV was in fine form, in an excellent mood. I let him pick his whole menu (never underestimate the eternal appeal of dinosaur shaped mac and cheese) and when we got in line he was still happily wound up. He began unloading the cart with...enthusiasm, rolling the cans toward the checker, stacking the boxes into pyramids of pasta, no look over the shoulder hook shots with the produce (true story). I had to intercede there. Hey, hey big guy, slow down. Don't throw the food, I have to eat that, you know. The checker suffered in silence, but the guy behind me chuckled and helpfully offered "Hey don't worry, when you get to be forty, you'll look back on this and smile."

I almost gave the checker an additional twenty for his groceries...

:)

Only in my dreams could I pull off the full General Jackson beard. *sigh* SD's facial is just gorgeous.

I know, I probably should be mildly offended, but eh, my posts are all tits and arse :blush:

As I don't know what Elpode thinks of me, I don't know what to make of that.

Always assume the best. ;)

Yeeeeaaaah... sure.

Your posts are frank, tough and straightforward...and that's how you look to me in your most recent pics. That's not a bad thing.

From Elspode...I guarantee it. :angel:

I enjoyed seeing everyones pictures. I think the image for the most part matches the writen post.

I must say that in my case, I think I write like a guy but but my voice is soft. In real life I have been told I am charming. That is if I like you. As for telling the truth my face and eyes never lie since you can't see those online here I must write it down instead of flashing you a look with said eyes.
( oh and btw there is only one person I throw shots at- sorry about that. You have every right to judge me on that)

I like all of you though! I think cellar dwellars are wonderful.:D

Good heavens, Ducks. I hope you don't think that I see you as nothing but tits and ass. Nothing could be further from the truth. If I have focused too intently *on* the tits and ass lately, I humbly apologize. But they're such *nice* tits and ass, and I thought I should demonstrate my admiration lest you think you're efforts at sharing such personal and intimate details were unappreciated.

I think you're spiffy, I do.

Eh 'spode, you should know me well enough by now to know I was just messing with ya ;)

Feel free to focus on the tits n arse, it makes it easier for me to get my own way :D

A sister! A sister under the skin! *Big Kiss*

Sometimes it has the reverse effect. ;)

Thank you. You have expressed the exact reason why no photo of me exists on the web, or ever will. When people pressure me about it or swear they will never share any photo I send them I have been tempted but never gave in. I tell them, "I am what you need me to be. I have no face to influence how you feel." ;)

Thanks... that is very nice of you.

You may be right Tonchi, but I have a different view.
I say what I think, I mean what I say, and really don't give a shit if you/they/anybody agrees or not.
My purpose in posting is express an opinion, not to win anything. You're hearts and minds are your own.....I don't want them.

I'll leave it to tw to preach to the lurkers, to the world.
He likes to do a summation, then piss me off so I'll swear at him, and net nanny will stop at his post. I don't care, I know he sees it.:2cents:

Bruce, it's not about being straight-forward or not caring what other people will think. With me it has become a necessity to be "what you need me to be". Since I got into "my" fanclub, it has taken me all over the world and into the lives of hundreds of people. Nobody has ever accused Tonchi of being afraid to speak her mind, and I can rip somebody a new one in two languages if the occasion requires it. But it simply WORKS better when you deal with such diversity as I do if nobody can pin me down. It was years before most people learned I was female, most of them still do not know I was born an American, the gays think I am gay, the teens think I might be in college but they aren't sure, some of them talk to me as if I were a parent, a lot of the boys talk to me like a girlfriend, I have even been a marriage counselor to older fans who only know that I was once married too. But I have no race, age, or size, none of them like me or hate me because of any other reason than how I am, not what I am. It works. But it also has closed me out of some things, because now I can't even go to concerts anymore because somebody with a cellphone would take a picture of me and it would be all over the internet before the morning. That part really pisses me off. I never planned for this to turn into a game of hide and seek. But I know for a 100% certain fact that I will lose all my effectiveness if I start passing out photos of myself.

But, you see, you have a mission, an agenda, to be all things to all people. You've given up being who you really are, to stay in power....to stay in control......a politician.
If that were not true, you wouldn't care who knew, who you are...what you are.
That's not a criticism just an observation from your post.
You can be the voice of reason without being a disembodied voice.:cool:

Sorry, but there is something lightly bullshitty/wack paranoid about this. They don't know you so they can't identify you so nobody gives a shit and would not take the picture in the first place.

I've apparently missed something here on the Cellar. This is the second or third reference I've seen to your fanclub. What, exactly, are you talking about? Are you some sort of celebrity somewhere?

That's what I am inferring from the last post. If that is the case, then I would question a loss of effectiveness in communication and ability to help people by being identified. In this crazy, mixed-up world of ours, people seem to be more willing to be swayed/helped by information when it comes from celebrities.

What confuses me is...even if Tonchi *is* a celebrity, what is a picture of her at a concert going to do to change stuff? I mean, wouldn't she be identified as (celebrity name here), and not Tonchi?

But not to a 15yo from Serbia or a gay disco punk from LA. You do not see the problem because you are a mature and rational person. 80% of the people I deal with are neither. And it has nothing to do with power; I loathe the people who start fan clubs or websites so that they can become important and controlling, we have too many of those.

Sundae Girl started the joke about "my fan club". I am not a celebrity and I do not play one on TV or the internet. Quite the opposite, I have always wanted to avoid the spotlight. I am gatekeeper/administrator/coordinator for a celebrity who is of no interest to any of you here (except for 3 people) and the Director of International Relations/Recruiter of her international fan club, and I would never trade on her name by mentioning her except in some of the game-playing threads. I am not important or powerful, but kids and other nationalities who are used to having to deal with people who think they are both have insisted on treating me that way. I am not able to persuade them otherwise.

And yes, I am paranoid about cameras now, UT. It has become a game with some of the guys now to find out what I look like, just because I will not tell them. I attended a concert at Universal Studios two years ago where I was introduced and thanked from the stage and if "She" had not forgotten where I told her I was sitting I would have ended up in camera photos all over the fan sites. So now I will not go to any fan parties or record signings because everybody asks the fan club officers "Is Tonchi here? I want to meet her." Just because they are curious.

Paranoid? It's not for nothing. As it is, I have a guy in Saudi Arabia who googles my name constantly and sees everything I write HERE, even though he can't understand a word. This was something I never imagined when I got into this 10 years ago. It is absurd. But just this week The Cellar PROVED my point. Remember the Chuck Norris business? Admit it, NOBODY will ever feel the same way about Chuck Norris again, and his image is toast to the action-figure crowd. All that happened because of one message he wrote, it spoiled the fantasies of untold millions of people. Well, that is precisely what could happen to me. Nowhere near that many gives a shit about me, but there are more than enough spiteful people out there who would love to take away what effectiveness I have and what pleasure I get from the job I do.

None of that makes any sense to me whatsoever. Unless you're getting a paycheck. Are you?

It is possible that loyalty can exist absent of monetary compensation, especially in the case of fandom...can't it?

The most loyal fan, who can't go to concerts, book signings, and fan parties, because she'll be seen doing it by the curious, who will then (somehow?) prevent her from being the most loyal fan (because they googled her and got a picture instead of text)? And what then, became infatuated with Tonchi instead of the celebrity? Are there really morons who stalk hangers-on? None of this makes any sense to me unless the celebrity loses standing by having a PAID associate who doesn't look culturally acceptable.

Sure, if they believe they can get access to the object of their desires. Remember, "fan" derives from "fanatic", right?

I'm getting a LIFE, 'toad. Who pays YOU to run this place for the last 10 years?

And your second post tells me that you did not understand at all what I was saying. I am not "#1 fan", never said I was, and I signed on because I am the only native English-speaker that joined the club that long ago. The rest.... just happened.

Well good point that.

Tonchi is a friend and we've had several lengthy pm discussions. There is good reason for her desire for anonimity, and she is one of the nicest, kindest people you could ever hope to meet. None of you (self included) have walked in her shoes. I know a teensy bit of her story and I wouldn't want to be photographed, either, if I were her.

Now Patrick since you fessed all to the others, why was I different than you expected? ;)

This is Lianne Stein, just named president of Boeing Germany.
Now this woman is extremely competent and qualified for her assignment, make no mistake about that.
But, that said, do you think she would have any trouble getting the attention of male cow orkers? Do you think her looks would have any effect of their willingness to be helpful/cooperative?

In the Cellar, I can see where having the picture of a poster you find attractive, in your mind's eye, might make you more receptive, initially. But anyone with any intelligence would quickly resort to the post for input and in time devolve to previous impressions when encountering future posts.

So I don't think pictures of members would have a lasting effect of how you receive the posts unless you're hopelessly shallow in which case it doesn't matter. :2cents:

I can't respect a woman with a forehead higher than mine.