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Aliantha 10-25-2006 11:20 PM

Women please vote
 
I've decided to post this thread because I think some people here don't realize that the issue of rape is serious and that many many women (and some men) are affected by it.

I'm asking the women who view this thread to vote honestly so that the men can realize that this is no joking matter.

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:00 AM

Germaine Greer ( an Aussie feminist who now looks after ducks somewhere in England) says that women should not feel raped by rape . After all , what is rape ? Only a stiff ( and often not THAT stiff because of the booze) member in your vagina . Is your vagina YOU ? Yer bloody mind is stronger than that .

As a girl , Germaine Greer was raped in a car after a party by a person she knew . This is her way of being stronger than rape .

It may help some people who do not dare to say they have been raped .

Women deal with it , and get over it . THE RAPISTS GO TO PRISON .

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:01 AM

AND THEY BELONG THERE

Happy Monkey 10-26-2006 12:06 AM

Everything can be serious and everything can be a joking matter. Often at the same time.

lumberjim 10-26-2006 12:08 AM

really? are you really saying that you think that i feel that rape is not a serious matter?

Aliantha 10-26-2006 12:11 AM

I'm not saying you think anything lumber. What I am trying to demonstrate with this thread is that there are many more women who are affected than you might think. Women you know through this forum even.

Women who might be just as affected by careless comments as I am.

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:13 AM

No one would EVER be able to rape me .

rkzenrage 10-26-2006 12:13 AM

Nothing should be off-limits when it comes to a joke.

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:14 AM

But if in the terms of the law they did , they should go to prison for twenty years .

lumberjim 10-26-2006 12:16 AM

well, i know that there are. my prom date was raped. onyxcougar was raped horribly with a KNIFE! would it help you to tell us more about what happened to you? or would it be better to carry on with your life and not let it rule you? you are not a rape victim. unless you choose to be.

Aliantha 10-26-2006 12:16 AM

A huge percentage of rapes never even get reported let alone the perpetrators of the crime going to prison. That's a fact.

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:19 AM

Have you been raped , Aliantha ?

DucksNuts 10-26-2006 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddug
Germaine Greer ( an Aussie feminist who now looks after ducks somewhere in England) says that women should not feel raped by rape . After all , what is rape ? Only a stiff ( and often not THAT stiff because of the booze) member in your vagina . Is your vagina YOU ? Yer bloody mind is stronger than that .

I would never quote that dopey bitch Greer if I wanted to be taken seriously.

LJ - I agree with you, to a certain extent. You arent a victim unless you choose to be, but I believe that not everyone has the right kind of *makeup* to get past something like that.

That said, I dont know which *makeup* is the better one, because I personally believe to get past something like that....you lose something in doing so.

rkzenrage 10-26-2006 12:28 AM

I have to say, "get past" really sounds trivial.
I moved-on & came to terms with being abducted and escaping as a child... getting past it? I don't know.
Discussing it in detail is still something I will not do.

Aliantha 10-26-2006 12:30 AM

I agree rkz. It (emotional/physical trauma) is not something that goes away just because you rationalize it, and it also becomes a part of who you are to some degree.

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:32 AM

We are talking about women being raped , rkzenrage . Stop trying to make everything fit in with what you see as pain . Stop being so selfish . Sick people are far too selfish in general .

I know I seem hard . I am not .

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:33 AM

Aliantha , have you been raped ?

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:34 AM

Has anyone you love been raped , Aliantha ?

Aliantha 10-26-2006 12:39 AM

Yes and yes Buddug. Many years ago. It changed the course of my life, in some ways for the better if that makes any sense. In other ways it changed things for me for the worse. It's a matter of perspective and some days the positives are more prominent others it's the opposite.

That's not the point of this thread though. This is not a therapy session for me, and I think anyone who wants to has a right to comment including the men. I think that if in some way they have had experiences which help them understand then that's for the good although I feel very sorry that the world has to be this way sometimes.

DucksNuts 10-26-2006 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage
I have to say, "get past" really sounds trivial.
I moved-on & came to terms with being abducted and escaping as a child... getting past it? I don't know.
Discussing it in detail is still something I will not do.

Yeah, well, shoot me I guess for not wording it correctly...many apologies

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:43 AM

Well , you say 'yes' and 'yes' Aliantha . Perhaps in a way you wanted to answer the question no one else asked . I think you are brave and lovely .

Aliantha 10-26-2006 12:45 AM

I think most of the others that viewed this thread already knew the answer Buddug. I don't think it was brave to be honest.

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:55 AM

Why look for comfort amongst all these selfish Americans ?

Buddug 10-26-2006 12:57 AM

They are all obsessed with themselves .

Aliantha 10-26-2006 12:58 AM

I'm not looking for comfort. If I want that, I get it from my family and friends. I also don't think all Americans are selfish, nor do I think any other group of people can all be classed as selfish - cept maybe the French but even they have a few saving graces as individuals.

Buddug 10-26-2006 01:08 AM

Don't spend your fine feelings on people who only care about themselves , that is all I am saying , Aliantha .

And tomorrow when you wake up thinking 'oh no , I gave up a part of my soul ' when I typed that , and was I drunk ? And oh I am so sad for it is true after all .

Don't be afraid . The ordinary people will have forgotten , just another message , just another conversation , the mill turns .

Well , I will be strong and true , and I will remember what you said . What you said is a strong little bird that you allowed me to hold in my hand for a moment .

Aliantha 10-26-2006 01:10 AM

Well, for one thing, I'm not drunk today. lol And there's nothing little about me...or birdlike.

Anyway, thanks for your kinds words. I hope I don't regret thanking you tomorrow.

Buddug 10-26-2006 01:11 AM

Go for it , Aliantha !

Buddug 10-26-2006 01:13 AM

Jeez , these sheilas .

Bullitt 10-26-2006 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddug
They are all obsessed with themselves .

Good God speak for yourself.. you've been throwing around your holier than thou pompous crap all over the Cellar.

Pie 10-26-2006 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddug
Stop being so selfish . Sick people are far too selfish in general.

What does it take to make her go away again?

Shawnee123 10-26-2006 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pie
What does it take to make her go away again?

I don't know, I'm about ready to change my stance on firearms.

Sundae 10-26-2006 08:46 AM

Aliantha

Much as I appreciate your motive in posting this question, and much as I respect you as an individual, I don't know if you can achieve your stated goal.

Quote:

I've decided to post this thread because I think some people here don't realize that the issue of rape is serious and that many many women (and some men) are affected by it.

I'm asking the women who view this thread to vote honestly so that the men can realize that this is no joking matter.
I had a friend who technically was date-raped (technically because she never accepted it was rape). It has never happened to me or anyone else close to me. Even if it had, I'd like to think I wouldn't flinch at the word Rape, or see it as a taboo subject for humour.

It would make me feel uncomfortable, and if I had been raped I agree the topic would probably revolt and distress me. But the bottom line is the criminal that raped me would be the person who had changed my life, not the person who made a joke/ comment all unaware of my personal circumstances.

There are very few people (IMO) who find rape as a topic amusing. Male or female. But telling people not to talk about it except in the most serious terms doesn't stop rape, and doesn't stop the victim from suffering.

You have my respect and sympathy (even if you don't want it) for what you have been through nonetheless.

Just my :2cents:

LabRat 10-26-2006 08:50 AM

Back on subject...

I have never been raped. I only know one woman who said she was when she was younger, but I do not know her well enough to know details. I must assume that she was, as my impression of her is that she wouldn't lie about this type of thing.

As a kid, I do remember some older neighbor kids trying to get me to do some things with them, that would likely be considered sexual abuse (of me), but to be honest, I have blocked out the experience. I do get the creeps when I pass by their house, so I know *something* happened, though I know it wasn't rape--as in forced non-consensual intercourse.

I was lucky. However, I also lived at home during college and didn't party much because I had a steady boyfriend all through. I likely wasn't in nearly as many situations where rape is likely to occur.

Flint 10-26-2006 08:56 AM

the definition of rape
 
What about the proposed change in UK law, where a drunk woman may be found incapable of giving consent?

Sundae 10-26-2006 10:07 AM

From here

Quote:

Now the government - as part of a package of reforms which have been incubating for more than two years - is proposing to define consent as "free agreement". The idea is to not to change the current law, but to clarify in statute for the first time what consent means. The aim is to make the law clearer, as an aid to preventing as well as prosecuting rape. The new law will spell out a range of circumstances, not exhaustive, in which it will be presumed there was no consent. One example is if the woman was asleep, unconscious, or too affected by alcohol or drugs to give free agreement.

Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand. Wrong. It will not, repeat not, change the burden of proof in rape cases, which will still be on the prosecution. It will not be for the man to show that the woman consented. If his defence is that she did consent, it will still be for the prosecution to satisfy the jury that she didn't. Nor will it create a new hazard for men who have sex with a woman intoxicated by drink or high on drugs. The rule that a woman cannot agree to sex if she is too drunk or drugged to give consent is already well established in law. It dates back to a case in 1845, and is really a statement of the obvious.

Rape is the denial of personal autonomy, removal of the right to say yes or no. A woman who is asleep, unconscious or in a state of extreme intoxication is in no position to say no. Men will still be able to invoke the defence of "honest belief" - that even if the woman wasn't consenting to sex, he honestly, however stupidly, thought she was.

Flint 10-26-2006 10:11 AM

interesting choice of words...
 
Quote:

Some men claim that the reforms...
Oops! I'm sure they meant to say something less biased and sensationalistic.

Sundae 10-26-2006 10:32 AM

This was an article in a national newspaper. Perhaps the objections simply did come from men.

Flint 10-26-2006 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl
Perhaps the objections simply did come from men.

"Perhaps" is a fine excuse for slanted journalism..the statement isn't accurate. It's a sexist way to present the issue.
Here is a debate on the issue, which doesn't consist exclusively of filthy, knuckle-dragging, rape-supporting men.

Sundae 10-26-2006 10:58 AM

I don't get where you think this turned from a reasonable discussion about rape into a "lets kill all the men because they're rapists and we hate them" thread.

But hey - if we're going to have an intelligent discussion it's great that you have this person in your corner (male or female)

Quote:

shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
consent is consent ..wayy to easy for a woman too say she was too drunk and didnt know what she was doing etc ..then some innocent dude gets the fuckin jail

consent is consent ...

shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
is a guy too carry out a breathliser test now btw .. too see how drunk a girl is? HAHAHAHAHA! what a joke ..

as for real rapists ..cut there cocks off and keep em in jail forever lol

shark1873 - re: Rape: How Drunk Is Too Drunk?
when there are 2 red lights to not proceed even if consent is giving it will be maybe classed as rape if u proceed ....... is that wot it will read ..lmfao

Flint 10-26-2006 11:12 AM

here (remember?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl
I don't get where...

Quote:

Some men claim that the reforms...
__________________
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl
...you have this person in your corner...

What does that even mean? How is this person in my "corner" ???

Sundae 10-26-2006 11:36 AM

I referenced an article froma respected broadsheet that happened to refer to men rather than people. You claimed this made it biased and sensationalistic.

Without then having any idea of the journalist's source, you claimed that the statement wasn't accurate.

You then referred me to a debate on the issue, in which at least one of the posters (quoted by me above) is not presenting a viewpoint any different from that you objected to in the article. Albeit less articulately.

Flint 10-26-2006 11:42 AM

I stand by my criticism of the article, specifically in regards to the poor choice of words.

I have offered no guarantee on the contents of the debate, other than the fact that both genders are represented.

lumberjim 10-26-2006 11:51 AM

this is flint flinging poo. let it go , SG. he's just baiting you.

lumberjim 10-26-2006 11:52 AM

in fact, Flint your new user title: Occasionally Flings Poo

Flint 10-26-2006 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint
I stand by my criticism of the article, specifically in regards to the poor choice of words.


Flint 10-26-2006 03:31 PM

did y'all hear about this one?
 
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" Sheik Taj Aldin al-Hilali

Aliantha 10-26-2006 05:41 PM

Comments like these are exactly why date rape cases are not reported to police.

JayMcGee 10-26-2006 06:01 PM

this is what comes from giving women the vote.......

Aliantha 10-26-2006 06:03 PM

arsehole

JayMcGee 10-26-2006 06:05 PM

ah.. now you're talking.......

Flint 10-26-2006 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliantha
Comments like these are exactly why date rape cases are not reported to police.

That's more than a mere "comment"- that's a sermon to over 500 people! Yay religion!

Aliantha 10-26-2006 06:14 PM

I'm wondering if anyone is surprised by the results of this poll? Personally I'm not because I've done a fair amount of research in the area as you probably would all have guessed by now.

It's incredibly astounding to me that when over half the women who have voted on this poll have either been raped or narrowly avoided it, some people can still find the time to make jokes.

That is my point. This is not an issue that affects a few people. It affects over 25% of the population. That's a fairly huge wack wouldn't you say?

lumberjim 10-26-2006 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayMcGee
this is what comes from giving women the vote.......

aw, cmon. that was some funny shit!

Flint 10-26-2006 06:24 PM

"Perhaps this is why it is man alone who laughs: he alone suffers so deeply that he had to invent laughter." - Friedrich Nietzsche

xoxoxoBruce 10-26-2006 10:02 PM

I would imagine the newspaper reporters only asked men for their reaction to the law, or at least lumped them into a section of male reaction. That's because most people think of women victims when rape is mentioned.
That's unfortunate, as rape is not exclusively a male on female crime. Many boys are raped and men in prison know the problem well.:(

Aliantha 10-27-2006 07:38 AM

I just wanted to thank the people who voted on this thread. I realize it takes courage to do what you did and it means just as much that you could say what you did even though it was anonymously.

I hope that even though some people will never understand what you've been though, they may at least have had pause to consider your anguish and in future, maybe things will be different for you and for me.

Flint 10-27-2006 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
I would imagine the newspaper reporters only asked men for their reaction to the law, or at least lumped them into a section of male reaction.

My problem with this sentence:
Quote:

Some men claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on them to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand.
...is that it should have been written like this:

Some claim that the reforms will place an impossible burden on men to show that the woman agreed to sex if she had had a few drinks beforehand.

Otherwise it implies that men, exclusively, object to this law - which is inaccurate and inflamatory.
I don't think a professional journalist could be this naive about semantics. If they are, it's just incompetence.
__________________

@Aliantha: Sorry, if I hijacked your thread. These were a couple of current news items I thought were worthy of discussion.

lhatcher 10-27-2006 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddug
Germaine Greer ( an Aussie feminist who now looks after ducks somewhere in England) says that women should not feel raped by rape . After all , what is rape ? Only a stiff ( and often not THAT stiff because of the booze) member in your vagina . Is your vagina YOU ? Yer bloody mind is stronger than that .

As a girl , Germaine Greer was raped in a car after a party by a person she knew . This is her way of being stronger than rape .

It may help some people who do not dare to say they have been raped .

Women deal with it , and get over it . THE RAPISTS GO TO PRISON .

I agree to a point. Date rape can be gotten over, but when there's violence involved it is way so much more than just a stiff one.

xoxoxoBruce 10-27-2006 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint
Otherwise it implies that men, exclusively, object to this law - which is inaccurate and inflamatory.

No, it just means that's the strongest negative reaction they could find and who it came from.
You don't think they got a negative reaction from women, do you? The law isn't to protect women from dogs, or men from women, it's clearly women from men. :rolleyes:


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