Oooohhhh, boy...
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/

Fuck.

Wow. You killed your own thread with the opening post.

Fuck. Agreed.

What were people saying when the French were in the midst of nuclear testing?

Fucking frogs!

Not quite the same connotation I know, but still, worth a mention.

Of course, then they blew up the Rainbow Warrior and all hell broke loose.

Fucking frogs.

Wait, I killed my own thread? what?

As in there's nothing more to say after your remarks in your opening post. Except repeating it, which I did. Or perhaps praying. Or placing a "strong buy" position in the Defense Contractor segment of the Military-Industrial Complex (tm).

Your post was actually going to be the title of my thread starter. Better we should all just huddle in the same place though. I don't mind the company.

What is the next logical step? NK said "we're gonna do it" and the world, US, China, etc, said "UNACCEPTABLE", NK said "Boom!". Ball's in your court, Condi.

I think he was just referring to the fact that no one had replied, presumably because "Fuck" pretty much sums it up perfectly.

Why does anyone need to do anything about it? They're testing nuclear weapons, underground, in their own backyard. That's better than many other nations who choose to do their testing in other people's backyards.

And now, here comes 'The New Cold War'!!!

With North Korea? I don't think so. China yes, not North Korea. As long as we can keep China against North Korea on this issue we won't have a cold war. Now if this is true, I would be a little worried if I lived on the West Coast of the US.

You don't think there'll be sanctions which will lead to threats either direct or implied?

I think NK is still not enough of a threat for us to be REALLY figting them (then again, look at Iraq...), but as long as China's still pissed at them, theyve got NUTTIN'.

Eventually the world will have to pay to reinstate N Korea into the world. That was the deal that Jimmy Carter in conjunction with Japan, S Korea, and the Clinton administration worked out. Since George Jr shattered that deal with his axis of evil speech, N Korea has been upping ante. Each time they do something, it comes with numerous and plenty of preannouncements. Each step is taken with a "if you don't talk to us, then we will make more weapons" statement.

Last 'begging you to talk to us' step was launching numerous missiles on 4 July. One that would have flown over Japan exploded before that flight got to Japan (accident or intentional?). The date was no accident because of who they keep begging to. We ignored them for another 3 months. So they announced (repeatedly) the next step - a nuclear test. BBC interview of N Korea's spokesman from Australia could not have been blunter. They want to talk. And still the US refuses.

Problem is with every new and proven weapon system, then the cost of reinstating N Korea into the world is more expensive. This nuclear test is not a military threat as much as it has now massively increased the cost of restoring N Korea into a world community. The test may have made that cost so high that extremists would rather fight a war than negotiate an arrangement - reconciliation.

I agree TW. If the international community wants to try and ignore N Korea for much longer there'll be trouble. This is why I think 'the world' will react in the usual way (negative) and impose sanctions. Hence - cold war II

This is just Korea letting us know they're still there. Allthis talk of 'fuck' and 'we're all doomed' is a little premature. They've developed a nuclear device (not so difficult) probably the size of a bus, with no means of turning it into a practical weapon.

They do appear to have pissed off China (their last real ally) which is not a good thing for them. I suspect China will step in and tell them to get with the program, this could work in China's favour if they play it right.

I agree. Look for China to step up here. I think its interesting that China and Japan are talking just in time for this, if Seole gets in on it you know NK is toast. He's not going to be able to deliver this sucker without a train or a ship so they have time...

The track record of this administration would indicate that we will nuke NK. It's just the right combination of pre-emption, hypocracy, and bullying to be the defining moment of W's presidency. :worried:

Of course, it would be done to promote democracy!:eyebrow:

Really, it looks like that may be the only option at this point. I'm not in favor of it by a long shot, but if we wait until they have nukular WEAPONS, then it's SERIOUSLY gonna be 'fuck'. If we move now, I say we can take 'em.

Bush bluffed and lost. Since the start of his 1st term in 2000, everything Clinton did was reversed. No more containment policy, no more carrot and stick, only stick and rethorics. Blunt "diplomacy" of Bolton totally stroke back. Bush gambled on not negotiating with NKorea and let all the talking to China. And see where this all lead to. Another utter and complete failure of the Bush Guvmint foreign policy. These 8 years will be remembered as the most distastrous in US history...

Next: Japan will develop it's own nuclear arms.

Thats will be the death of 100 thousands SKoreans too, as the Great Devine Leader Mr.Kim promised.

Excuse me, but I have to dash out and buy a couple of cases of MRES, a Level A Suit, and a few extra cases of ammo. No, I don't expect Philadelphia to be nuked, but I do expect that the North Koreans will have bad aim and either under or overshoot New York City and/or Washington, D.C.

It's not that they have bad aim. It's that they've just started marketing the only thing they've ever produced in-house, outside of US currency, that the rest of the world would like to purchase.

If they actually have a working design, perhaps they'll trade a few to Iran for some Chineese missiles that work.

Anybody heard a confirmation of detected radation consistant with a fusion bomb yet? It wouldn't suprise me at all for them to have put a couple of kilotons of TNT in a mine and set it off...

Not quite. NK got their nuke tech while Clinton was playing kissy-face with them...that wasn't reversed. Bush just refused to be blackmailed by NK's "feed our people or we'll start tossing nukes".

"Once you pay the Danegeld, you will never be rid of the Dane".

So does this guy

If this is the case, there will be expert opinion suggesting it soon. If that doesn't happen maybe these guys are blowing smoke or just having fun with their speculations. We'll see I guess

I couldn't open the first link, but that second one makes a lot of sense to the untrained eye (mine). Conventional explosives would probably "ramp up" as the reaction burns through the available fuel, while the real thing would go all at once.

Even neutral Switzerland is pissed off about this one:

The Swiss government has condemned a nuclear test carried out by North Korea, and said Switzerland is ready to support United Nations sanctions against Pyongyang.
The foreign ministry statement came after North Korea announced on Monday that it had carried out an underground nuclear test.

In a strongly worded communiqué, the Swiss government described the reported test as "counter to international efforts to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons... and as a threat to the security of the region".

Neutral Switzerland also took the unusual step of agreeing to support binding sanctions, should they be imposed by the UN Security Council, which has already scheduled meetings to discuss what action to take.

The Swiss reaction followed similar condemnation by President Bush, who called on the Security Council to deliver an "immediate response" to the test.

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/front/d...=1160409290000

I don't know about Cold War II. But N. Korea has certainly succeeded in isolating itself from the world. They may be mad that the US won't talk to them, but it sounds to me like no one is going to talk to them. If they were hoping for hand-outs from the rest of the world, they sure went about it the wrong way. Idiots!

Do you think we can starve them to death with a total blockade before they have a functional nukular missile?

I think they've already shown that starving their population isn't a big deal to them.

TNT has high enough brisance that it would be difficult to distinguish from a nuke from seismic data alone. It's not by accident that KT is the standard by which nuclear yield is measured.

So...no chocolate or fine watches for them!

And forget about sweet red knives!

For that first link that says the test was a dud, I wouldn't take that too seriously. If NK was to make a test a nuclear weapon they aren't going to waste a lot of money to make it as big as possible just to test underground, it would be pointless. He also quoted that the missle test was a fail. Did he ever think that NK was planning on it stopping after 42 seconds. One, they don't have the space as other countries to test ICBMs and two, they wouldn't want the US to find their technology and really know how much they know. Anyone that has common sense would have had the missle stop in NK territory so the technology doesn't fall into wrong hands.

Also stop being paranoid about being attacked. If NK sends a nuke to the US it would be sucide because no country would stop the US, even China. Even if they did attack the US it wouldn't be New York or DC, it would be in Seattle or some California city.

Thanks. I'm very relieved.

Duh!! NK isn't going to attack us - They are going to sell the shit to the freakin terroroists!!! Hellooooooo $$$MONEY$$$ is what they want - money and power - they have no interest in attacking us - they'll let the fanatics do it for 'em. :nuke:

That would probably depend on how tightly it was packed. But if they were really trying to simulate a nuke, it probably would be difficult to differentiate.

Funny, but I heard some talking head blaming the NK nukes on Kerry!:smack: Anybody but the President and party in power for the past 6 years.

Don't forget that yummy Swiss cheese, either. The point is that the Swiss are fanatic about maintaining their stance as a neutral country. The Swiss only joined the UN in 2002, and that was after a huge controvesy which was resolved by holding a Swiss national vote to join or not. That the Swiss would actually agree with Jr. in condemning something shows just how great the out-rage is on a global level - not just the US is mad at them; EVERYONE is!

PS To Bullitt - I doubt that the average N. Korean could afford one of those knives, anyhow. Probably it would cost them an entire year's salary. ;)

Don't forget Switzerland is where Kim has his wallet stashed.

Small (suitcase) nukes are more salable to terrorists. :confused:
If it was a nuke there should be some radiation readings soon.

Was it a nuke? Was it just TNT? Why are serious (not Fox News type) reporters asking this question? Start with why N Korea warned of this test so long ago. N Korea knows that no matter what happens in six way talks, the US will only do, again, what they did to the Jimmy Carter settlement. The only way that N Korea can open to the world is to eliminate the only nation that subverted a previous - almost successful - agreement.

First point: North Korea is demanding something so simple - two way talks only with the US. And as long as George Jr acts belligerent, then the cost increases to bring N Korea back into the world.

Second point is a legitamate queston: was that nuke real? N Korea has very good reason to explode anything and declare it nuclear because their only demand is two way talks with the US. Their demand is not, for one minute, extraordinary.

Whether this blast was nuclear or conventional can be determined from its geological signals. However, that means a complex analysis of existing N Korean geology must first be conducted. An analysis that could take months (although the analysis may have started long ago).

So what was this nuke? Third point: by now everyone here knows that even spend nuclear fuel from power plants can be used to make a bomb. The atomic bomb over Hiroshima had uranium only that poorly refined. But crudely refined uranium means the bomb must be large - far too large for a missile.

N Korea has a long way to go before a nuclear weapon can be placed on a missile. However those who decide using fear would have you forget that fact.

This N Korean nuclear test is not a threat to anyone. But it again demonstrates how dangerous the world gets when extremist type leaders would advocate pre-emption, "Mission Accomplished" wars and outrightly denies negotiation (do to a political agenda and a 'big dic' mindset). Like those missile tests last 4 July 2006 - this explosion (nuclear or conventional) is only a message to you. Do you want responsible leaders who can avert war (as Jimmy Carter did) or do you want more 'Pearl Harbors'?

The longer that the US snubs North Korea requests for negotiations, then the greater this risk becomes. And the more expensive a solution becomes. Another tribute to that mental midget who gave an 'axis of evil' speech - to intentionaly create instability and nuclear proliferation. (Same president also wants to reward India for their nuclear program.)

Fourth point: if we don't start bringing N Korea into the world, then this is as inevitable as the civil war in Iraq. N Korea will eventually put nuclear weapons on missiles. A situation that is completely avoidable now if we start by condemning, for example, the 'we want war' attitudes expressed by California's congressman Rohrbaugh on a BBC interview.

Four points made: 1) was it really nuclear, 2) why did they do this after so much warning, 3) what really is the threat, and 4) what should be our long term objectives rather than our current 'big dic' 'we fear to negotiate' attitude.

Jimmy Carter showed how all this could have been avoided. George Jr promotes an agenda that has no strategic objective and therefore can only create war as its final solution.

Many reports this morning that there is still no nuclear evidence from the event. Either it was a dud or it's a fake.

It seems to me this case is ideal for the world. The Norks have only proven incompetence or trickery, which will not make their customers happy at all.

They did their first nuke test while Bush was in Guvmint, what blackmail? It proves that Bush's strategy did quite the opposite and at the same time losing his face, big time!

This is an easy fix. We tell China to reign in their lapdog or we will make Japan and S. Korea nuclear powers. Someone mentioned this on the news last night, and I like it.

Oh, goody! The Japanese could become kamakazi pilots again. The radioactive cloud would probably drift right over Japan, but who cares? Not until it reaches Cali, anyhow. And nuclear China would be real happy, too. There's little love lost between the Japanese and the Chinese. Yes, brilliant thought, Noodle. :eyebrow:

1) China ain´t be told anything by anybody
2) The Norks are not a lapdog, but rather a buffer zone between China and the 20,000 US troops in Sork.

Some radioactive gas consistent with a nuclear explosion has been found.

Thus, chances are, it was a dud.

It is to laugh! Ha ha, dumb Norks are the first nuclear power ever to fuck up their first test!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061014/...t_pe/us_nkorea

Or maybe is was a sucessfull test of a "dirty bomb". The kind terrorists are likely to use. :eek: