"Acquire The Fire"
 

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A recent article in the NYT focused on the fear of many Evangelicals that they are "loosing" their youth to our wicked secular culture. They highlighted an Evangelical "tour" for teenagers called "Acquire The Fire." Basically, it's a "stadium extravaganza" for Evangelical Christian youth that features a lot of the same trappings of regular rock concerts but without any of the secular perversity of the latter.

At some point in the two-day show, the hip and charismatic host dude has all the kids write down "negative cultural influences" on a piece of paper and come to the front of the stage and throw the pieces of paper into a trash can:

Trash cans filled with folded pieces of paper on which the teenagers had scribbled things like Ryan Seacrest, Louis Vuitton, “Gilmore Girls,” “Days of Our Lives,” Iron Maiden, Harry Potter, “need for a boyfriend” and “my perfect teeth obsession.” One had written in tiny letters: “fornication.”

Some teenagers threw away cigarette lighters, brand-name sweatshirts, Mardi Gras beads and CD’s — one titled “I’m a Hustla.”

“I strip off the identity of the world, and this morning I clothe myself with Christ, with his lifestyle. That’s what I want to be known for.”

Aside from the fact that the term "lifestyle" was not around during the time of the alleged Jesus, how is having ersatz "progressive" rock bands and selling "cool" Christian t-shirts a rejection of secular culture? It kinda seems like cheating to me. If these kids are supposed to have the "lifestyle" of Jesus, wouldn't they have to walk around in woolen robes and leather sandals? Wouldn't they be hangin with, and giving comfort to, the AIDS-infected crackheads down in the hood?

And then there was a comment by one Rev. David W. Key, the director of Baptist Studies at the Candler School of Theology of Emory University, here in Atlanta:

"Today the culture trivializes religion and normalizes secularism and liberal sexual mores."

Just what does he mean by "the culture?" Isn't that kind of broad? And why couldn't secularism be "normal" anyway. In fact, the first definition for the word secular is "...of or relating to the worldly." That sounds pretty normal to me. I mean, how "normal" is it to rise from the dead and float up to some yet-to-be-proven place known as "heaven?"

Then there was this statement from a researcher that kinda took me by surprise:

“I met plenty of kids who told me over and over that if you’re not Christian in your high school, you’re not cool — kids with Mohawks, with indie rock bands who feel peer pressure to be Christian.”

Do any of you Cellarites' kids go to a school like that?:neutral:

You're awfully picky when it comes to Christian kids, but you wouldn't have any problem at all with someone who decided to become Buddhist, yet didn't don a robe and sandals. That's the hard thing for those kids, and what makes their choice poignant -- they want to make themselves like Christ in spirit even though it sets them up to look like idiots to their friends --

That makes them idiots to the rest of the world:


So, to answer your question, yes: we should be down by the crackhouse, giving comfort to the AIDS victim. But we should also reflect the Spirit in everyday life, because when you become a follower of Christ, you get a new set of desires. There's not room for two opposing spirits in your heart -- you can't serve two masters.

The kids at this rally or whatever it was were ritually and symbolically destroying their old carnal natures (this had already happened within them, they were just making it known publicly) and announcing their new life. The whole "born-again" thing that seems like such idiocy to everyone.

Do those cute young emotionally overwrought girls there know that wearing t-shirts with electrical outlets makes dirty old men like me want to stick my prongs in them? :D

6 of 1
 

It seems to me that they are just replacing one superficial culture with another. T-shirts, CDs, Christian Rock bands, light shows, etc. They shed secular trivialities for Christian ones.

And studies have already shown that their is lots of recidivism with teens that make such "pledges" of faith. I see these kids a being less "born again" that just being ripped off. The mega-churches are loosing their market share and they are desperate to recruit new members.

You're trying so hard to make a point against christians that you're missing the boat entirely. The clothes you wear make a statement about what you believe, especially when you're a kid. They believe in Christ, so they wear shirts proclaiming it. They listen to music that contains messages that go along with their viewpoint.

You know, kind of like people who aren't Christians.

Hypocrisy seems to have escaped from the corral and bitten some non-churchgoers as well. Call the CDC.

I don't think Pangloss is trying to bash Christians so much as these particular tactics, which aren't exclusive of Christians. I've actually been to a few of these rallies (I know, gasp) and they DO have loads to sell as Pan mentioned and the kids are understandably overwhelmed and overcome by all the high, high emotions and you've got to wonder how much is manufactured emotion and how much is real. I've been to revivals and "singings" (a Southern Baptist thing I believe?) and they can whip up emotion so high even I am tempted to come to Jesus.

Yeah, it's called small-town America. Hell, even in my solidly blue city (in the middle of an all-red state), I worked briefly for a company where the CEO led the whole company in a prayer at the Christmas party.

When you're so convinced you're right, it can be shocking to find out that there are lots and lots of people who disagree with you.

Why is it so unfathomable to you people that there are actually Christians who become that way on their own? What is it that compels you to be deliberately obtuse when this subject comes up? Most of you don't really want to know the answer to any of your questions, you just want everyone to know how much you hate the concept of God and wish that people who believed in him felt as stupid as you think they SHOULD feel.

2,000 years ago, Jesus said "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own." These kids are making a public statement that they are choosing Jesus over the world. They aren't choosing "church" or "xtians" or "religion". They're choosing Christ. I wonder if you really really can't comprehend that, or your hatred is so deep that you refuse to admit it aloud.

I don't hate Christians. My mother is a Christian. A true Chrisitan.

Oh, but she IS Catholic.


Maybe that makes a difference?

Huge.

So, it's NOT just that you must be Christian--you must subscibe to YOUR brand of Christian. OH, I see! If noodle means a certain type of Christianity, he should say so. Stupid of me to imagine all followers of Christ and the New Testament would be considered Christians, eh?

Must be nice to be all saved and everything.

People who walk their talk, truly understanding their own path, are cool. Not plentiful, but cool.

Looking down on people because of their religion... now that is sad Pan.

You are not saying you don't like something they are doing, something they have done to others.... you just don't like their path.

You are a bigot.

Sorry Bri I should have said more than one word.. in my opinion, a "real" Christian should be focused on helping other people in all walks of life. Jesus's whole ministry was healing and teaching about love and forgiveness. To me, Catholics have become way too caught up in the religion of Christianity, the cermonies and rituals, etc., and kind of lose the whole message Jesus was giving.
The amount of money and gold and crap that goes into the Vatican alone just disgusts me. Just looking at Jesus's ministry, it makes perfect sense that he would much rather we have spent all that on feeding the hungry, and healing disease instead of flowing ornate robes and other junk.
I did not mean to offend you Bri and I apologize, I just have a very simplistic faith and viewpoint as to what followers of Christ should look like and do.

I can understand the shirts, CDs and paraphanalia...replace the stuff they now covet with new stuff they can covet. After all, it's easier to guide them to the right fork in the road, than it is to get them out of their car.

That said, I've got a big problem with these whip 'em into a frenzy, theatrical tactics. They are very effective if you want to start a war or lynch somebody, but really unfair to teens that are soooo susceptible to the mob hysteria peer pressure.

I don't think that's an acceptable way to present the pros and cons of the choice to follow Christ's teachings or not.

Apparently, they feel it's ok as part of the religion business though. Smart too, like the first time you get drunk, high, or orgasm, it'll never feel quite as good again and you'll probably remember it fondly. Same for these kids being whipped into a hysteria and they'll associate the adrenaline rush of the mob with Religion. Remember Christian sects aren't the only ones that do this, though. ;)

:thumb: true story bruce

by the way what the freak was that you left on my blogspot haha

I don't remember...I probably just shit and left.:lol:

The harder you squint, the better God can hear you...
 

http://www.wildfreshness.com/brian/a...angelicals.jpg

Farting Preacher (Actually Robert Tilton, a Texas "televangelist" I watched when I was growing up...)

Mostly, they hoard it. Relatively little goes into the robes and trappings.

I do seem to recall that most priests have a personal chalice, though, usually purchased by their families at the time of their ordination.

I attended mass at a friend's parish with his family quite a bit following his death (I was there on a lot of Saturday nights, so I went along). I was quite interested to see a plain clay cup, pitchers, and plate used for the communion offering. First time I'd ever seen that ... my childhood parish was heavy duty traditional Italian neighborhood Roman Catholic and they had a gold chalice you could stun an ox with.

I was using those as examples, but you're exactly right.. its just disgusting and abhorrent.

Thank you for the hate. I'd like to personally apologize to you for all the Catholic charities, hospitals, and schools around world. I'm not a big fan of ostentation either whether its found in cathedrals, megachurches, or on someones back or wrist, so I won't defend that. I go to a small, plain, country Catholic church in a gold-free environment (inside secret most of the shiney stuff is just base metals). The Catholic Church had a major upheaval two of your life-times ago addressing many of your complaints, sorry you missed it. There is still a see-saw effect going on as parish communities try to figure out what are respectful trappings for His house. Much of what we base that on is aesthetics and familiarity. I was raised in the post-Vatican II Church so I prefer the simple. I'm tending to this mote in my eye.

Sometimes what we find phoney is what we don't know or understand. That is Panglosses reaction to the Times pictures or honestly my reaction to my first exposure to White Southern Baptist preaching. The teens in that picture are looking for someting bigger than themselves and something better than American pop culture. From experience, (we Catholics have our charismatics as well) some of them will burn out pretty quick lacking a serious grounding in the church but some will form a lasting bond and may even change their lives.

I don't really see the problem with creating exciting experiences for Christian children and teens to keep them within their parents' faith. I've mentioned elsewhere that my first experience of going to a festival was a Christian one. There is NO way my parents would have let me go to a secular music festival at that age (quite rightly).

Of course being a British it was reasonably low key (Jesus loves you, we love Jesus, hey it would be cool if you loved him too) but it was a wonderful experience to be able to talk openly about faith, God, worship etc. Less fun was being woken up by the Norwegian singing group near us at their morning worship, but at least no-one tripped over my guy ropes and was sick on my tent as happened in later years at Reading (non-secular!)

Non Christian parents are happy enough to celebrate Christmas, calling it a special time, a time for peace and love, a time to put other people before yourself etc etc etc. They are not celebrating the birth of Christ, not attending worship. They do not use advent to prepare their hearts and minds for the coming of Christ (chocolate advent calendars?) But it is seen as acceptable.

So Christian teens get music and hysteria without drugs, booze and sex. So the identify themselves by their dress code, except what their t shirts are promoting isn't a brand name but their faith. So they feel they belong, not to a group of kids who follow eachother, but to a global religion.

Good for them. Teens will get fanatical, whether it's about music, clothes, film stars, alternative lifestyles or Jesus. If they've chosen to follow Christ why shouldn't they have their fun in their own way.

Oh and btw - in Britain the Catholic church so isn't into the old gold & ostentation. Henry VIII took all our best churches way back when. We have brick ones on the local estates built by the communities. And the Catholics I know give plenty to charity, including their time and effort as well as money. Don't get me wrong - I love a bit of gilt & incense, but that's not the Church I grew up in.

Thanks for the apology, Bullitt--my mother is just such a Christian as you describe--after all, Mother Theresa was a Catholic! :) My mother is a faithful, kind, generous rosary-saying woman who tries more than a lot of people I know to follow in Jesus' footsteps. She never judges people; she would never say a fellow Christian (or anyone else for that matter--she believes God is the only Judge) was doomed to hell for 'this reason' or 'that reason' but I know the Protestants think Catholics are damned. I certainly hope there's a lot of room in hell...:rolleyes:

Do you think Mother Theresa is in hell???

that is far from the case Bri. denominational differences are largely irrelevant. most (not all) folks who stand on the "my denomination is better than yours" pedestal subscribe to a religion. that is not the same thing as being a follower of Christ. Jesus isn't a baptist, methodist, catholic, etc. He is God. some folks choose to follow Him as such, regardless of worship style. some are more concerned with following church by laws. it has always been that way and probably always will.

No ma'am I do not. She was the epitome of how Christians ought to see the world: Love your neighbor. Period.

Sorry for all the touchiness on the subject--I hung out with Southern Baptists for a while (bout three years) and they always told me that my mom was going to their hell for being a Catholic no matter how good she was. They urged my whole family to get "saved". Really stuck in my craw.

I hung out at this church because at the time I was in therapy; my therapist was a SB and she told me all my problems could be solved by being 'saved' in her church and that I needed these church folk to 'guide' me. I DID go to many Bible classes and services and women's gatherings and even Emmaus (which WAS pretty cool) but I saw so much there I could not accept that I didn't stay.

God
 

That presupposes that such entities as "Jesus" and "God" actually exist.

I can't go there. My mom surely tried her damndest, however. To this day she is "dissapointed" in me, and never misses a moment to tell me so. I could run a shelter for the homeless and she would still be "dissapointed" simply because I don't suscribe to her religion. Thanks, mom.:neutral:

Heaven and Hell are on earth.



Oh. Bullit. Are you the Bullit from the movie, you know, the Steve McQueen movie?

I'm currently enjoying Lalo Schifrin's soundtrack score from that movie...pretty cool stuff.:)

BTW, most churches use only 10-15% of their take on charity, & that is liberal. Most goes to "administrative fees".

It's pretty much my favorite movie of all time (I would kill for his car).. but The Great Escape comes dang close. I'm a big fan of Steve McQueen and old war movies in general (The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far, Bridge Over the River Kwai, Lawrence of Arabia, stuff like that). Any reccomendations?

Movies
 

Well, I think Bullit is awesome as well, and that Mach Mustang is to die for. I recently watched the DVD edition of Bullit and it had some extra features that were interesting. You might want to re-view it on the DVD. I will reccomend The Bridges at Toko Ri if you like war movies. It's one of only a few good Korean War movies, and how topical is that!? Plus it has Banshee Jets!!! That alone makes it a winner!

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/97/14.../PDVD_0781.jpg

Another sleeper is the British original Get Carter with Michael Caine. Ipcress File is also pretty cool.

Ok. I've violated the off the topic rule...sorry folks.:neutral:

There is no off topic rule. ;)

They chose ... poorly.