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So, there's this girl I like............
-Sorry, this is kinda long.
There's a girl I work with that I've always liked ever since she started to work there. She just broke up with her fiance a week ago or so that used to work there. They got engaged about a month after being together. (big mistake) Anyway, everyone knows I like her. I was the first one she called in tears telling about the breakup. I calmed her down, got her to laugh alot, so on and so on. I made a 45 min drive to work to calm her down again because her ex showed up at work one day. I did write her a letter letting her know my feelings toward her, and left it in her locker because I haven't had the chance to tell her in person how I feel. I know she's going to need time to recover from the breakup and all, and I am more than willing to respect and understand that. She seems to be kinda advoiding me now after what I did for her, and after I wrote that letter. I also heard from one of my friends that works with us that she would love to have his brother come over for a night!?!?:eek: Just curious if that is typical coming from a female coming from a breakup. Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? Any input would help, especially from the females here at the Cellar. Thanks!:) |
Continue to be nice and friendly to her, but give her some space. It's her turn to make some sort of move. You made your feelings known. If she's interested in you, she will respond. If she's not interested in you, she will feel smothered if you keep making advances.
Good luck. |
She likes you as a person. A friend. It would not be wise to invest the next stage of your life thinking that you are going to change that.
THere is a lot wrong with this picture. |
I agree, continue to be nice but give her some space. It is her turn to make a move when and if she feels that way inclined.
The brother thing, yeah well, I dont know how old either of you are. But I did that in my bit younger days. :redface: My ex broke up with me in a not very pleasant manner, so I slept with his brother......sooo immature. His brother and I were mates previously and continue to be so, but I felt bad that I used him like that (not that he was complaining :cool:). I think its natural for her to avoid you at this stage, you DONT want to be getting involved with her just now if you really want this to work. Nothing worse than filling the void of a broken heart, to have the broken hearted mend and realise they "thank you for your time, but bye now, I'm all better". Good Luck - you've been a great friend to her and I hope she appreciates it. |
She's probably all fucked up in the head right now - and while you might think you're the exception, don't be disillusioned. Watch out for yourself - she's not intentionally trying to hurt you, but whatever crazy shit she gets into in the coming weeks will make you feel like a total turd for having bought into it. Love does funny things to your head. And women are nuts. (consensus?)
I went through this earlier this year. Totally fell in love with a married coworker, settled for becoming a really good friend instead. Then she split up with her husband and naturally I was the next stop. The whole time I knew exactly what was going on (that I was the rebound guy) but I couldn't handle it. Too hard to have a taste but then not have the whole thing. We were both depressed and it sucked. Ironically, I've been through this before, but this time I ended up moving to another country. Up to you whether you want to wait for the fallout to settle. Try to keep your expectations low, if you do. Mine was a bittersweet ending - the week before I left (which was a month ago) she showed up and everything came pouring out. Spent my last three days with her but still got on the plane. We promised to find each other in a few years. |
Push her down then run.
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why don't i ever think to do these things when the time is right?? :eek: |
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Well, after I wrote the letter to her and helped her out through the ordeal, she seems to be ignoring me now. Not even saying hi or thank you or anything. I told her she at least owes me a hug for everything I done for her, but she said I'll get one later. Whatever that means. I understand her head is somewhere else, but a simple thank you would have been fine. I think I just learned to stay out of other's people's lives and worry about mine. :flipbird: |
And thanks for everyone's input, you guys are great! I guess time will tell what happens.
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No need to be keeping score. If you do something nice, do it to be nice, not because you expect something in return. It could be that she is embarassed about baring her private life to you and she does not know how to handle the emotions. Give her time, continue to be YOU and don't change yourself for anyone...they never appreciate it. The people who love you, love you for who you ARE, not what they want you to be and you trying to be it. Hold out and give The-Right-One a chance to enter your life. hh |
I, too, got a creepy feeling when you said that she "owes you" a hug. I had a friend in high school who always wanted to be more than friends and had a very hard time accepting that I was not interested. He would always try to find ways to do "favors" for me and then act like I owed him something. To this day he genuinely can't figure out why I never dated him, and he's still pissed about it.
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Hoof, thanks for the excellent advice. My eyes are opened now! |
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Let her go and feel her way through this thing - be nice, but NOT too nice! She knows you are there if she needs you - don't keep asking or offering - just let her be. She's got a lot of shit to work out in her mind and then MAYBE, just maybe, she might want something more. Then again, maybe not. The balls in her court now not yours. I just wouldn't push anything or go out of your way to say Hi or stop by to chat - she'll probably think you are being too pushy or stalking her.
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...but it sounds to me like you already have, in your mind. Get over the "she owes me a hug or at least a thank you", I don't think she owes you anything since you willingly offered yourself up as a doormat. Get out of doormat-mode and make her stand on her own two feet. If she's standing on yours, she won't respect them, she'll just wipe the mud off of her own feet onto yours. hh |
Unfortunately, the guys that get the chicks are the ones that ignore them.
Ladies will tell you I am wrong... I'm not. She knows you like her, now blow her off. I hate games, but you bungled it, you got into her space without her permission. So you have to recover. Just back off and wait to see if she does anything... if she does not, chalk it up to experience. My .02 |
Thanks everyone for the advice. I was actually kinda kidding around with the hug thing from her. Just knowing that I can make her smile and laugh through the rough time is good enough for me anyway. Maybe I should tell her that? I know she appreciated it though. Yeah, the ball is in her court now. We'll see what happens over time. You guys probably thought I was out of my mind! haha
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Keep being you and allow her to appreciate who you are when she is ready to really see you. I think her vision will be too clouded at this juncture. hh |
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If I dont have to work at all and know that the offer of a future/relationship is on the table, I'm kinda like "eh - whatever". But the chase is always appealing. |
I can't really say what she is thinking as I don't know her. But I know when I was in high school and had just broken up with a serious (relatively) boyfriend it was very uncomfortable when a guy friend wrote me a letter saying he liked me. I didn't want anything serious and since we were friends I couldn't see us just having a fling, which is all I wanted. She might think that since she likes you as a person, any relationship with you would get serious and she isn't ready for that. If you make her think that she owes you something (even if you are kidding) then that would be enough for her to run the other way. She probably thinks it would be too awkward to say "thank you" to you at the moment. Or she thinks if she does say "thank you" it means she likes you more than she does and you will expect more from the friendship.
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She was engaged after knowing the guy for a month??
RUN! Run like the wind! |
It may have come across I was desperate, I didn't mean it that way. lol I did tell her in the letter that I know she needed some time and I will respect that. I did apoligize to her today. I did tell her I was kidding about her owing me a hug, and just knowing I made her laugh and put a smile on her face during the whole event was enough for me. I didn't mean to come across as a jerk or anything, I guess I'm just not good at this whole realationship thing. :neutral: I guess I'll see what happens. Right now I'm just going to lay low and take one day at a time. Thanks everyone for your help in this!
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I was kidding when I made my comment, I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings. :redface:
FWIW, I think you're on the right track, now. Slow and easy... Heidi |
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My two cents here: rkzenrage was only half right when he said that brushing her off is a good move. It's true that at this point if you try and get closer to her actively she will only push you away, but at some point she may (not will, might) come around. At that point, don't brush her off, because us gals tend to overinterpert things- we try to squeeze meaning out of every little gesture and facial expression- there's no way of knowing what conclusions she could draw.
Deep down almost every woman in the world is a hopeless romantic- we love being spoiled and having sweet nothings whispered in our ears when no one else is looking, and red roses will melt our heart every time around. Just wait until you've been dating for a while before you start- otherwise you will come accross as overeager. And if she doesn't come around? Then she's just not good enough for you! You seem like a great guy, the way you supported her through her crisis, and there are plenty of girls out there who would love to date a guy like you. |
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Tip from an old geezer:
Best way to find a woman is not to look for one. Most women would actually rather seduce the man. Just be available... from a distance. If she wants to play you'll be the first to know. Main thing is discretion. Keep it to yourself. |
Update - So, I just called work to see when if I work tomorrow. She answered the phone. Found out when I work next. I asked her how she's doing today. She said she's still doing fine and all, and she called her ex today for whatever reason. I know it's alot easier for guys to get over past loves and everything, believe me I know this. Especially when someone treats you like garbage. Guess maybe she dosen't think like that. I just don't want any drama and be caught in between that situation. The only thing I know is if they do get back together, I don't want to hear every single day about how much he treats her like crap, yadda yadda yadda.
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She's still talking to him?? Be very careful, sounds to emotionally wishy washy to me, needs to get her head on straight. Remember that Mr/Ms Right only needs to be chased in the movies, in real life it signifies an extremely emotionaly needy person who will read far too much into things and generally leave you with that stereotypical "Huh??:whofart:" expression on your face all to often. Maybe I'm just tainted, being around only engineering/medicine girls who have male emotional patterns stuck in a womans body. Remember this: "Everyone has somewhere between 1 and 1000 soulmates out there". Don't know where I heard it but it reaks of truth to me.
Also useful knowlege: Meet "woman A". Woman A says she wants a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship. Meet "guy A". Guy A is a man who is honest, caring, in touch with his feelings and can handle a steady relationship. Woman A thinks of Guy A as her "best friend". Meet "guy B". Guy B is a loudmouthed asshat who drinks excessively, is abusive, dishonest, and cares only about himself. Woman A can't get her pants off fast enough for Guy B. Woman A then returns to emotionaly dump on Guy A about what a jerk Guy B was to her while Guy A sits there thinking to himself "I could have told you that was going to happen, so could any emotionally healthy rational adult". Woman A thanks Guy A for being such a good friend. Woman A then procedes to find Guy B ver. 2.0 Guy A starts trying to decide which caliber of bullet will be least likely to desturb the neighbors for when he recieves the inevitable phone call from Woman A about what Guy B 2.0 did to her Does this sound jaded to anyone? |
9th Engineer - Yeah, it seems she is still talking to him. I couldn't agree with you more on your post. It's one of the biggest things that I can't figure out why females like to deal with the asses that treat them like crap. I see it all the time here where I live. Guess I'll just sit back with the popcorn and watch. :)
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Why do women hang out with asshats that treat them like crap? Ah, that's a question that's puzzled mankind for a LONG time. Countless books have been written on the subject...debates have raged for ages! In darker times some people even went to their deaths because of their position on the matter! Maybe it's time that we ALL agree that the true answer is that there is NO true answer!*
(*apologies to comic strip AGNES--my favorite!) |
I don't get the self proclaimed Nice Guy (and in my case also Nice Girl). In my experience they are people who latch onto someone who has a more interesting/ emotional/ exciting [delete as appropriate] life than they do. They hang round the edges with big eager eyes hoping for some crumbs. They do not have the attributes to attract the object of their desire, so they mope, guilt trip and whine about "Nice guys always finish last"
I like to talk all night, get drunk and dance on tables and be indiscreet about sex. I don't care if someone opens doors for me - I'd rather open an email and laugh out loud. And I don't need someone to leave a lovely little choccy on my desk – I'd rather they remember that when I talk about Y that's my sister and X is my nemesis in the office, and not have to start at the beginning every time. I have only ever been attracted to people because of their wit, their humour and – okay – sometimes raw sexual attraction. That does come with self confidence, but if that's NOT another word for ass-hattery. I want people around me who share my tastes, my sense of humour and my passions. Or are willing to share theirs with me. I don't want someone around who is simply there because I am, or trying to get an "in" with me. For one thing it doesn't last. Some Nice People get Nasty behind your back when they realise you're not interested. Hence my vehemence of course – I've been Nice-Burned twice. I'm sure this doesn't apply to anyone here. Just a rant. |
I think part of the reason they go for the bad-ass is it excites them to not know what is going to happen in the relationship. And bad-asses are usually MUCH more persistant than the nice guys. A lot of the time when I was dating I didn't want a serious relationship, and I felt like if I dated the nice guy I wouldn't be able to keep it casual. Much of that was me being naive and inexperienced. How old is she? Part of the problem could be she doesn't know what she wants.
Another issue could be she was abused or molested when she was a child. I know several women who were, and they felt like they didn't deserve anything better (than abuse). They would sabotage their relationships with the nice guys because of this feeling of unworthiness. I don't know what her problem is, I am just throwing out possibilities. When she gets older and matures, she should come around. If she doesn't, or she is already at the stage where she should have learned her lesson, then she will probably marry one of the bad-asses, have a couple deliquint kids, and then wonder what happened to her life. Some people never learn. |
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Guy X says he wants a woman who is honest, caring, in touch with her feelings and can handle a steady relationship. Woman Z is a shallow, irresponsible dingbat with enough emotional baggage to fill a 747 and doesn't have the slightest idea what she wants out of life or from a man or where she will be 48 hours from now. But she is unbelievably smokin' hot. Guy X can't rip his heart out of his chest and put it in Woman Z's purse fast enough. Usually within 24 hours of making eye contact and before he has had a chance to even speak to her and in spite of the fact that she has never given the slightest hint that she even knows that Guy X exists. Guy X then returns to his buddies to complain that Woman Z ripped his heart out and backed over it with her car then asked him if he could wash her car while she complains to him that none of the three ex-cons out on parole she had wild-animal sex with last week called her back while his buddies sit there thinking to themselves "I could have told you that was going to happen. So could any emotionally healthy, rational adult." Guy X thanks his buddies for agreeing with him that neither Woman Z nor life itself is being fair to him and that he is truly a martyr singled out for special suffering while others, blissfully unaware of life's complexities, enjoy a simple life filled with peace, happiness and contentment. Guy X then pulls himself up by his bootstraps, spends the afternoon putting his heart back together with duct tape and fishing line then 7 hours later procedes to find Woman Z ver. 2.0. Wow. Woman Z 2.0 is so much hotter than Woman Z. [Guy X thought bubble] Now I understand that Woman Z wasn't supposed to like me because if she did then I wouldn't be available for Woman Z 2.0! I can't wait'll I tell my buddies about her! I wonder how she'll introduce me to her Dad? I bet her car needs washing. Ohhhh this is gonna be great! [\bubble] Something's missing... I got it. Woman Y. Who's woman Y? She's the honest, caring, in touch with her feelings and can handle a steady relationship woman waiting patiently for Guy X to notice her. |
:biglaugha True, true. It's easy to forget though, especially in college. The shallowness gene isn't specific to either the X or Y chromosome set I guess.
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My woman Y found me and thats the best thing that ever happened to me. It is much simpler and a whole lot more relaxing and enjoyable. So much less drama and BS, yet more of the honest, caring intimacy I was looking for. No head games.
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(Naomi Nevill)
There's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) I can't reveal her name until I've got her. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) Well, I've tried to get her time and time again. We just end up as nothing but friends. And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) Well, there's a certain chick I've been sweet on since I met her. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) I can't repeat her name until I get her. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) Well one day, I'm gonna wake up and say, "I'll do anything just to be your slave." And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) Well, I've tried to get her time and time again. We just end up as nothing but friends. And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) There's a certain chick I've been sweet on since I found her. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) I can't reveal her name until I get her. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) Well now one day, get her time and time again. We just end up as nothing but friends. And there's a certain girl I've been in love with a long, long time. (What's her name?) I can't tell you. (No!) I can't tell you. (No!) I can't tell you. (No!) I can't tell you. |
Sundae, I agree with everything you said. Well put.
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Sundae girl, to me nice refers to the way a man treats other people in general - not just being a leach who is too afraid of living to actually have a life of his own. Shit, I've done a lot of livin, much of it illegal or close to it and a whole lot of it very "stupid" and dangerous. Even I'm amazed that I'm still here alive and in one piece. That doesn't change the fact that I still treat other people with respect. I'm just not an asshole. Thats the distinction that I feel is important. Many women go after the asshole thinking hes cool or tough or whatever. On the other hand some guys that you would call "nice" are just wimps and those are what I think you are referring to (the wimps), not the nice guys. Maybe I'm wrong, but there is a very large distinction between the two.
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Beestie, I never laughed so much when I read your post. :D That was great! Yesman065, I totally agree with you. That's pretty much the way I am. I do treat others as others treat me. But I do my damnest to be nice to everyone, but I definately ain't a wimp either. Anyway, I found out she does want to get back together with her ex. I guess whatever makes her happy is fine with me. I did hear though that if she wants him back, she would have to change her ways. Um, I think that's a two way street right there. She can do whatever she wants. I'm just going to back out of this situation. Thanks so very much for all the input you gave me. Everyone here rocks!
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I'm talking about people who do little things for you that you don't want done, and assume this gives them a head start on your affections. They ACT rather than ARE nice. They totally miss what you find attractive in other people, part of which is the confidence to say Fuck You when it's necessary. I've heard "Nice Guys" trashing their ex behind their back, dismissing other people on purely physical terms, whining about how much they spent on dating a woman etc etc etc. Nice is as nice does. My best friend is probably the nicest man I know - and yes I would :) |
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I have been in a relationship, a good one, for a very long time.
People keep coming to me for advice... eventually it always comes down to one thing. They are attracted to dick-heads. My advice is always the same, date people you are not attracted to, you will find one that is a diamond in the rough. Date with your head, then fall in love with your heart, together you will get the shit in your pants right... there are videos, classes, books and a life-time to deal with that (the least important of the equation). No one ever takes the advice, that they all agree is excellent. The other thing is, when they are in a bad relationship, usually a cycle "what do I do?". My answer, after hearing of all the fucked-up shit the other person has done to them, their friends, kids and family. Leave them, change your locks & phone numbers. Do not answer the door or phone... wait for them to stop trying, move on. That is all. They always say... "I CAN'T DO THAT!" I hate the word can't. I don't understand, if you are dating someone for some time, realize that this person is not "the one"... you are not in your teens... what are you doing? |
Sundae Girl - Those people you describe are two-faced not nice - but I think we agree - nice is a state of being not acting.
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Wow rkzenrage are you ever right. Thats the advice I finally took and since then I've stuck to my guns, so to speak and I've never been happier. I've got 3 great kids and a great relationship with a new woman who loves me and treatws me like I need and deserve to be treated! Its absolutely amazing and I wish I had done this years ago.
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Thanks, that is very kind of you.
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That is very true.
Edit: I am a retard and the rest of my post was responding to another page of this thread, so I just deleted that part since it didn't really make sense here. But I agree 100% with rkzenrage. The man I am with now I would not have originally dated, but we became such good friends it kind of evolved. I definitely think that he is the one. :D |
This is to set the record straight on the 'Nice Guy vs Lowlife Weirdo' debate that's sprung up. It's where I got the material for my Guy A/Woman A post. It was originally a peice written for an Undergrad journal at Penn State (I think), but it's so good it has to be shared. It's one of those things that after you finish reading you just kind of sit there for a few moments with your head off to one side in perfect contentment. It's that damn good. Enjoy.
Ode to the Nice Guys
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Ode to the Nice Guys
Holy smokes that was awesome. I'm left speechless after that because it's so dam true. Thanks 9th for sharing that. Wish everyone in the world could read that. |
That was fucking perfect, 9th! I want one of those!!!!! Except I don't want to be (Hope to god that I am not) the girl in the peice.
Oh and rkzenrage, you're 100% right about dating someone you're not attracted to. The truth is, physical attraction builds over time- first you get used to them, then you become attracted to them. I know this from personal experience- there was a guy that I worked with, the first time I met him I thought of him as quite ugly, then as I came to know him for the great guy he was, it slowly evolved to the point where I was insanely hot for him. (Run-on sentence alert!) Unfortunately, we live in two different countries now. :( Oh well, there are other fish in the sea. |
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Cynical? Maybe. Realistic, I think. Everybody loves a winner and winners tend to be the anti-thesis of Mr Nice Guy. :( |
Hence the jaded attitude in the the Guy A story. The essay is what we all want to believe, but in all but the rarest of cases it's only fantasy.
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I, if this is possible, am speechless. That is all of me put into a few paragraphs.
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Ode to the Nice Guys?
What?
I am friends with Nice Guys. They don't act like that towards me - we have give and take relationships. Man - I endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are... Me - Really? How boring, when I witter on about my nemesis in the office my friends tell me to shut it Man - I always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain myself to tentative hugs Me - Are you saying that being there for a friend entitles you to a shag? Man- I hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores Me - And? Does she ask you to? If not stop doing it. Oh and I don't necessarily need to hear a breakdown of the Match for 90 minutes after it finishes, but if I'm out with a friend I'll go along with it. If she doesn't, drop her. Man- I obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy my female friends are at the appropriate moment, because I know most girls need that litany of support Me - If you don't like doing it, stop it. If you do stop using words like Obligingly and Litany. Some of your female friends probably don't realise you're not being sincere. Man - She left 40 urgent messages on my cell phone, and when I called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. Me - You plum. That's not a friend that a needy disaster Man - Even though I thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, I assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. Me - Blimey, you're not a very good friend are you. Hope she doesn't end up with a black eye at some point. Man - She interrupted the best killing spree I’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. Me - If it was that big a deal for you, you should have told her you'd call her back Man - And even though I thought it was immature and I had nothing against the guy, I paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. Me - Hang on, Nice Guy? Nice Guy? You're either spineless or spiteful if you do this just on her say-so. Man - She didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of us, she dragged me to a party where I knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with me, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” Me - Why did you stick with her? Blimey - last time I dragged a friend to a party he got drunk & copped off & I got stuck paying for the whole fare home by myself! I forgave him though - he's a friend. Man - the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches Me - I beginning to think I don't want to be friends with you Man - the world needs my patience in the department store Me - and mine at the pool table - do I whine about it? Man - my holding open of doors Me - Again with the doors! I do that for other people too, you'd have to be really rude to let the door slam in someone's face Man - My party escorting services Me - Like I'd let a friend go to a party alone either Man- my propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile Me - Ah... Now we get to the crux of the matter. This female friend isn't a friend like I am. This "friend" is hot Man - I tolerate all the crazy, inane, absurd things, I am the faceless, nameless hero, I want accolades, acknowledgement, and gratitude Yes, you do don't you? You don't deserve it. If a male friend treated you like that you would delete their number from your phone. If an ugly female friend treated you like that you'd drop her like a hot coal. You have set yourself up to be walked all over because you want sex with someone who doesn't want sex with you And you think this makes you special. And I bet you are making some sad mousy girl's life a misery whining about your goddess to her as well (only she has to go home and kick the cat) NICE is as NICE does. Don't stay friends with users and you won't be used. If any of my male friends were also "friends" with a woman like that I'd twat them over the head and ask them what on earth they were doing? I'd say, "I know she makes you feel manly by being so needy, but you so don't need a friend like that! What's that? Oh you fancy her. Why? You don't seem to have anything in common..... Oh, she's hot. Right. Well what can I say, mate, you get what you signed up for." |
Just to reitereate - I am responding to the piece quoted by 9th Engineer, I'm not directing that at anyone posting.
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