Religion: Good or Bad?
 

Bad.

Why?

Because when people think they have the answer they stop asking the question.

And what's so great about question-asking?

Interesting. The whole Middle East thing is religion-based, and people take solice in religion for their loss during the conflict. HHhhhmmmm. Get rid of religion in the first place, and you don't need to take solice in religion. Better.

But you're assuming that endless war and destruction is a bad thing...

Religion is bad.It's devisive and allows people to abdicate responsibility.

God does work in mysterious ways, doesn't she?

Religion is only bad when confused with spirituality... instead of what it is, just a social club.

How the hell else am I gonna find a lawn service I can trust ???

Religion is like anything else, really. It's got its good side and it's got its bad side.

Medical studies have shown that people with strong faith tend to live longer and are happier than those without strong faith. It has to do with being able to feel that your problems are not that big of a deal. Humans are hard wired for religion. If you fight that, or ignore that, it runs counter to how you are wired and I think it contributes to stress. Also, I think the success of humankind has to do with the social fabric that binds us all together, and religion is huge part of that.

Obviously, when different religions clash, there is conflict. That's when religion's bad side comes out. Also, when a group of people blindly follow the same path and don't question that path, it can suck when that path is a bad one.

Yes, people are hard-wired for something that "religion" is one version of.
"Fighting" or "ignoring" religion has nothing to do with man's inherent capacity for spirituality.

In a Christian society, I observe that Christianity blatantly co-opts bits of "social fabric" in order to stamp their "brand-name" on it.
Religion isn't necessarily responsible for "social fabric" . . .

Not as much today, granted, but historically it has been.

I'll give you that.

Okay..."social fabric" is a good point.

Of course, NFL rivalries provide "social fabric" to their geographic regions...

Something you have to know about me: I use "Devil's Advocate" as a device to explore an issue. Everything you said was a good point. I'm not really disagreeing with any of it. Like you said, there is good and bad in everything.

It's just that, as religion has a bigger megaphone, I feel it's important to question it, even to attack it. In the name of balance...

Personally, I don't think it is up to me (or anyone) to define religion as good or bad. It is such a personal and variable thing, that a definative statement of good or bad isn't possible.

I couldn't care less if you want to worship a loaf of pumpernickel bread or your dog Spot...just as long as the form of your religion does not infringe on me and my rights. And vice versa, of course.

I do dislike the recruitment done by many religions. I think a much more powerful approach to getting people interested in what YOUR beliefs are is to BE someone admirable and inspirational. When people become curious as to what you believe in that gives you such peace, clarity, contentment, enlightenment and inner beauty, then you have effectively lived your testimony to your beliefs.

Stormie

Consider that in the separation of Church (religion) and State (government), government may represent management and religion may represent leadership. Leadership has been recognized as being distinct from management since Genghis Khan first wrote about it during his military campaigns 800 years ago; still, there is overlap between the two just as there is overlap between Church and State. Management [government] is more about the bottom line (i.e. surviving). Leadership [religion] is more about how you get there (i.e. thriving). Management [State] keeps you around for the next week, next month, and next year. Leadership [Church] keeps you around for the next decade, score, and century.

When either one is absent; or, disproportionate, the long term prognosis is poor. It is possible to consolidate the two; but, that simply hasn't been achieved yet. During the meantime, questioning Church and/or State can be productive; however, attacking either one could well be counterproductive. It may be advantageous to simply advocate the other.

When I say "attack" it, it's because I'm over-shooting. I know it can't be swayed, so I push hard as I can against it, hoping for the tiniest wiggle. And, of course, that has to be done with enough tact not to drive away the target audience, I realize that, but I'm not really trying to "recruit" anybody - that's what "religion" tries to do, I'm just hoping people might stop and think, that's all. But, what I won't do is pander to ingrained ideas simply because "that's the way it's done" . . . I stay firmly rooted in well-reasoned concepts that don't require social momentum to sustain them.

No Good or Bad
 

As a strict relativist, materialist, and one lacking "spirituality" alltogether, all I can say is that religion does exist, and it effects people. I try to avoid it. Many people I meet say the are "not religious" but they "are spiritual." I say 6of one and a half-dozen of another.

I know how to laugh, cry, and get angry, so I'm not an emotionless black hole; I just don't think we have a soul and I still don't really know what people mean by "spirituality." WTF is that? Judging from the word, it must, almost by definition, involve a "spirit" or "spirits."

And in regards to "spirituality," one guy that REALLY gets my dander up is below. What a bunch of shite!!:mad:
(sorry for the sad face, Flint).

http://www.wildfreshness.com/brian/archives/wdass.jpg

Who is the man in the picture?


I agree with pretty much everything you just said.
Pangloss have you ever read any of Richard Dawkins books?

Bad...Anyway, the religion you are thinking of is. That christain religiosity. But fanatical jhad-ism is bad too. I think any religion that closes the mind instead of opening it is bad.

IMHO, religion has been around to explain the unexplainable. When humans didn't know what caused thunder, there was Thor. When they didn't know why the sun travelled across the sky, there was Apollo. The two questions we don't know, these days, are

What are we before we're born and after we die?
and
What created matter/energy in the first place?

Religions say that God/gods created the universe, and try to explain the pre- and after-life. I'm skeptical about that

Religion is a social construct desigend for herding people into compliance with accepted standards, or consolidating the power of a ruling class. Religion is the institution, the practices of a codified system.

Spirituality is . . . harder to put your finger on. I will say this: I accept that there are things we don't, and can't, ever know about. Stephen Hawking cites, as a reason why he no longer believes that Physics can acheive a "Theory of Everything", the old paradox of "This statement is false" (if it's false, then it's true, but if it's true, then it was false - it contains an unresolvable contradiction within itself). Much in this same way, he notes that any theory that attempts to describe the universe is describing a universe which also contains us, the ones doing the describing, and therefore it is logically impossible for us to ever remove our own influsence and see a true picture. So, what does this have to do with spirituality? I believe spirituality deals with the unseen forces that we must accept exist, while, on the other hand, "religion" says it's got these forces all figured out, and tells you that it has the easy answers. Spirituality, on the other hand, acknowledges that we haven't got these answers. Spirituality is a recognition that there are things beyond our little human scope. It would be foolish and arrogant to assume otherwise.

So flint you didn't even quote my origianl response to you and neither did you quote me fully when I was talking to someone else. I said my brain quivered like jello. I am sure it is quite better to have exploding revelations than to have a brain of mush. Don't be such a baby 'cause I don't appreciate your childish ways. Thanks

I thought it was funny, but if you insist on taking it the wrong way, I'll take it off. I guess if you ask nicely would be the main thing. Like the BigV quote, it's a play on the new title lumberjim gave me. Just messing around, having fun, you know. No big deal, it's just the internet.

The only other thing I want to add is that you might want to consider getting on some kind of medication, you total fucking psycho.
<cute smilie intended to make it look like I was joking, so you can't get mad at me, although I really wasn't joking>

The same it true of pet owners and moderate cigar and pipe users.

What/whom you worship is spirituality... with whom and how you do it publicly is religion... a lot of what you discuss here is in the realm of spirituality.
The recruitment tactics and general behavior has nothing to do with their spiritual belief system IMO. "The Religion Of Peace" is a perfect example currently.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...leAdvisory.jpg

I agree with Flint on spirituality, but will add that it is personal. One can find guidance from others, but the practice/advancement of spirituality is done by one's self.
I say that you are incorrect on this point. I am a follower of Christ, as a teacher and enlightened one; but not a Christian, not by any stretch of the imagination.

I know its been said in a few different ways already, but i'll say it again my way...

Religion as a guide on how to live well, as a philosophy of loving your fellows and doing the right thing, is very good, and a driving force behind a lot of good in society.

Religion as a monopoly on your life, as an ultimatum on what you can and can't do, as a way for religious leaders to use you as a pawn and control your life, is horrible and wrong, and a driving force behind a lot of evil in society.

bullshit..Flint you are a lier. Always have been always will be.

[edit] I don't quite understand. You want to misquote me, put it in your ID because you think it's funny? The person you hate enough to call a total fucking psyco for years...the person who got his buds to hate on her too.The person who has to present me in a bad light every chance you get. You think that person is funny enough to quote? I am a psycho again for thinking you were not having warm fuzzys? Now why would I think such a thing? gawd YOU are the one who is screwed up and I don't need to call you names to prove it either.

Both of you are acting younger than I am. It's unbecoming of both of you.

aww, you're right of course and I think you're sweet for being so nice about it. I could just hug you. You cellaries are nice. I like nice.

about religion
 

One the other hand people are social creatures. Religion is a way for people to belong. Unless it is somekind of solitary religion. Many things can bring about a' religious experience'. Some people find a kind of religion in music,hiking to see a sun set on a cliff overlooking the sea, love,sex,magic. It can be whatever a person wants it to be.

So religion can be either good or bad depending on how one defines it. I guess.

The only time I believe in religion is...well...not very often. Mostly, if someone were to ask me how I define spirituality, I'd have to go with the budhists.

I don't believe religion has any place in matters of state and the two should be more definitively divided.

So, what I said means what you say it meant, not what I say it meant ???
It's a joke...Like I said, a play on 'dizzying intellectual' - get it? I'm making fun of me.
I've always been nice to you, even though it was hard. The one thing I remember about you from AG was that you post-stalked me, and it creeped me out. But I didn't hold it against you. I've always tried to be nice to you, even though you keep snapping and lashing out at me irrationally...like you're doing now...again.
What ??? I'm sorry you had a bad time on AG, for whatever reason. I didn't know about that, at the time, and still have no idea what it was about. Don't blame your troubles in getting along with people on me. (That's what a crazy person would do!)
What is it about what you're doing that I am resonsible for ??? You control you. You do it to yourself. E v e r y time. Try to see the pattern.
I don't even know what that means. So, the answer is a tenative "yes" . . .

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Perhaps you shouldn't be on the internet. It doesn't seem to be something you can enjoy. You don't seem to be able to communicate via typed English sentences, without adding your own internal spin to what people say, invariably finding some bizarre worst-possible interpretation.

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@Ibram: I'm sorry you have to see this. This isn't something I am interested in pursuing. Does this site have an "ignore" button? I've never used one before, except for spammer/flooders, but this may be the exception to the rule.

New Age Charlatan
 

http://www.wildfreshness.com/brian/archives/wdass.jpg

DanaC wanted to know the indentity of this man. He is Dr. Wayne Dyer. You may have seen him on TV. One of my latest gripes is how PBS is using the New Age pablum of Dr. Wayne Dyer's "Power of Intention" to raise money. This is just the kind of crap I DON'T want to see on PBS. I used to contribute to my local PBS affiliate, but I won't if they keep putting this shit on the air.:neutral:

@Pangloss62: You have to be careful what you ask for! If what you're asking for is a channel that only shows you things that you already believe, what you'll get is a channel that never teaches you anything new!

verbal gymnastics


like now?


I private IM'ed you and you said. "Hell no you didn't think I was stalking you" because I wasn't the only one posting things to you but that must have been one of the other 2 or 3 users that use the 'flint persona' at that time or you are a lier.

YOU are lashing at me buddy boy. Don't pretend to know me. and yes anyone can see you have serious problem with me.

lie ,,,bold faced lier

I don't get along with ag's dysfunctional freaks that's all.


ager's verbal abuse mode. Good for starting fights.




and you know where you can stick that right?


It's you who added the spin. I tried to post a positive with every cajole. You took out of context something I said to somebody else without even responding to the post itself. I asked you to remove it from your ID because of all of the above and as a true personality disorder type you got to make it out to be an ugly thing.Like a true ager you are.

shine on mind fucker

Belief?
 

I don't "believe" things, I know things.


Join Wayne for this dynamic evening as he presents a live three-hour lecture based on his latest book, The Power of Intention. In this powerful lecture, Wayne explores intention - not as something you do - but as an energy you’re a part of. Learn how to use the power of your intention to start co-creating your life right now! You’ll discover how to change the energy of your life, acquire abundance, and feel at peace in the world. And you’ll learn to merge your individual thoughts with the power of intention, thus setting into motion the manifestation of all your desires!


What I don't like about PBS using Dyer to raise money is that he's raking in the dough through his watered down New Age "religion." If he really wanted to help people, why wouldn't he just give his DVDs and crap away, or at least at cost? Why doesn't he do his presentations to poor people? Because there are thousands of rich, mostly white suburbanites to preach to (and make money off of). Why is this crap any different than the shit they offer over at the Trinity Network? I'ts just another religion promising constant happiness and serenity. Why are we so desperate to have everything perfect? And why do I keep watching this stuff? And why will PBS accept the promotion of New Age gurus but not Evangelical Christians? And why am I so cranky today? :neutral:

:::click::: Goodbye forever, crazy bitch.

Maybe to counter-act the "bigger megaphone" effect? Or maybe just because it appeals more to their demographic? Good question.

Again, I think you are confusing religion with spirituality (& a little with philosophy). Religion is a social club, membership is just based on saying your faith is similar to others in the org. No one knows another's heart, no one knows another's faith. Religion is a club, nothing more.
Na-uh... S-Young Frankenstein!

ha ha ha . . . I knew that dude was familiar!


As to "the definition of Religion versus the definition of Spirituality" - that does tend to be a huge misconception (confusing the two) - but after all, Religion tries as hard as it can to get confused with Spirituality, so what do you expect?

It is pretty simple... If it is your relationship with The Question or The Other, it is spirituality... if it is your relationship with others, religion.
Where religion likes to try to blur that line is to impose rules on your relationship, but those are your choice to accept or discard... once done, they become part of your personal spirituality and still not part of religion.
Again, just a club.

Hence the removal of the Gospel of Thomas... where Jesus discusses your PERSONAL relationship with God so much... Hmmmmm?

Well...we souldn't want any nasty Gnosticism spreading!

That was only made Gnostic once they got a good whiff of what it was saying... it has the most direct text of his actual language and is the most verifiable of the books, written, most likely, by his brother. The problem is that it undermines the power of the church.

Oh, I know, man. I'm right there with you on this.

Edit: It's my favorite Gospel. It's integral. Necessary to understanding the message.

In The Right Spirit
 

???
 

Help me with this one.

You would have to watch the film... "Putting on the Ritz" with a speech impediment.

Wha?
 

How does one just aquire a speech impediment? I thought such impediments were congenital. I suppose I could fake it.:neutral:

Good one. The film is Young Frankenstein.

Ohhhhh!!!
 

I finally got it. What a dumb ass I am.

Good movie. My very own father took me to see that when I was about 14. For a 14-year-old, it sure was a lot more fun than watching The Conversation, another movie he took me to see.:neutral:

That dramatic 'good bye forever' bit was funny as hell. I still laugh about when I think about it how pathetic it is :lol2:


You could have done that quietly without all the drama and the inflamatory name calling. Unfortunatly it didn't work. You're still here.



ho-hum , gawd you're annoying.

That's not exactly true.
Just between you and me..:unsure: ....there a people here....please, no names,...that would tie you up, snip off your clothing with nail clippers and do things that can't be discussed in polite company.
I felt you should be warned.

Politics - the manipulation of people's social beliefs. Religion - the manipulation of people's spiritual beliefs. Both are, yet again, examples of the herd mentality (mine's bigger than yours). When we as a species lose the arrogant assumption (based on fear) that we are somehow special within the universe and not just another animal (a clever one at that) who did good in the class of life, the better off we'll all be. There are billions of galaxies in the universe with billions of stars, do think God/lifeforce/whatever gives a rat's ass what you get up to under the sheets of life? (And why's God and his prophets always male? I'm talking about the big multi-national, fundamentalist religions here) People fear death, difference and change, religions make you feel cozy, safe and wanted. Religions aren't worth the taking of one, single life. Wake up, we're merely God dreaming!

What really puts a smile on my face when the religious kick off with their sanctimonious, self righteous, don't question the Lord/Allah bullshit, is the fact that one day they'll die, and THAT is when they'll find out once and for all what the 'Truth' really is. And deep down they know that particular truth of being alive, and it scares the life out of them. Why do you think 'non-believers' get the verbal and physical crap kicked out of them? Because non-believers are a constant reminder that all religions are just a point of view and have no validity other than that which we give them.

Bugger me sideways, this kind of talk could go on forever! Sod this, I'm off to get on with living and enjoying my life, I'll meet God, or as the Sioux indians call it, the Great Mysterious, when I'm dead.

Sod this!!!
 

Those British blokes make my day.:lol: