Need advice re woman at his work
 

Hi I'm new here. I've been reading the posts and enjoying the advice and shared confidences. I hope someone can help with mine :((. Here goes. Sorry its a bit long.

The background:
My fiance has a woman at work he is more than friendly with. At work she treats him like a partner and it seems vice versa, he takes her to lunch (and then pretends it was his boss - who is his best friend - who invited the 2 of them) and they share confidences and secrets. I'm sure he shares his relationship problems with her. At social functions she (and probably he) always puts his seat next to hers. She does the doe-eyed thing standing 2 inches from his chin when I'm standing next to him..They plan bbq menus for work functions (they have a lot of 'team' social functions) and then he brings home her salad platters to wash in our kitchen.Photos of our new block of land downloaded from his phone to computer accidentally also downloaded smilinggg close up face photos of her at the pub. I didn't even know he'd been there. His 'recently opened documents were all work-related except for a photo of ...u guessed it...her! I deleted it and didn't say anything - he has many copies anyway on other puters and drives.etc U get the picture?

He 'explained' all of this away...gets angry and looks totally furious and frustrated, says 'why am I here then?'. It all makes me feel sick. He still does all of these things with her and just avoids telling me, hides receipts (for lunches and drinks), emails, his phone etc etc. He is in charge of the ten pin bowling work function, he had to arrange the teams, I asked who was in his team, he 'couldnt remember (oh yeah?). I am very hurt by her continued presence in his day and his lack of consideration of my feelings.

We were supposed to go on a free houseboat weekend with her and her partner (yes she is married but her husband is very insipid and odd, and they seem very distant from each other) - I said I could stomach an evening event but not being stuck a whole weekend. He hit the roof and was going to leave me again. We ended up being interstate and so couldnt go anyway, thank goodness.

The current situation: My fiance now has a 25 years of employment special dinner,he is now a member of the honored Quarter Century Club at work. He has to invite 10 people to a free dinner, which must include his boss. He can choose the others. He only works in a small team of around 5 including herrrr plus some lesser familiar workers at other venues.

Should I put my foot down and tell him not to invite her? Should I say you can invite her but the engagement is off? Should I say nothing (the pain would be unbearable). Either way the whole thing is doomed. There will be a huge scene and he will leave me. I am miserable. I don't want to spoil his dinner but I want him to show me that I am more important to him than her and this is my chance to find out for sure.

I will probably get kicked off for such a long post but I am desperate for advice.

Fingers crossed,

Jill.

Unless he's not planning to invite all five team members you'd give him very easy justification to be angry. It would look bad to the rest of the team / boss and make you seem very jealous (no matter how justified). There is certainly a problem but that doesn't mean you shouldn't pick your battles wisely.

I'm so the last person to give advice on relationships ...trust me, but I really do feel your pain luvie.

Look - I dont think you can put your foot down here unless you want to nail that coffin lid shut on your engagement. It will look reeaaallly bad if he invites everyone else and not *her* and his boss will probably wonder what is going on too....it just doesnt seem the right environment to do the stand off because he has too much justification behind his motives for inviting her.

What kind of person is she around other people/guys?

See, I'm that flirty type anyways, so girls often think I am *after their men* when I really am not. I'm just being me and sometimes my friendliness is mistaken for interest when its harmless. I'm that icky touchy type and am trying to learn that guys take it the wrong way and girls REALLY take it the wrong way.

When you guys have spoken about this in the past, has it been open/relaxed or the heated type?

Bet you feel like kicking her in the shins when she does the doe-eyed thing whilst you are there, I would :blush:

Good luck Jill, you sound like you really love this guy and I wish you all the best :) oh and welcome!!

If she is also a long time employee, you are probably looking at a long term relationship with this woman. Is he worth it?

Unless this guy is a real Prince Charming, a real perfect dude, I say lose him. Griff is right. I say tell him 'go right ahead and invite her, but if you do, I'm gone'. If you think something's going on, something probably is, and I'm sure you deserve better.

Hey Lilly

What a sickening situation to be in. I have also felt the bite of jealousy, and it is probably the most debilitating of all emotions. So you truly have my sympathy.

Some questions to clarify:

Who did he know first, you or her? I appreciate you need to feel more important than a work colleague, but was their "relationship" established before you came on the scene?

Have you felt jealousy in previous relationships? It does sound justified to me, but then I'm quite possessive myself and need to know I'm number 1 in a partner's life. Could it be you have worked yourself up to fever pitch and he is hiding things from you because you now have a hair trigger as far as she is concerned?

I really don't think you can tell him not to invite her to this dinner, but would you be able to swing it so that she wasn't seated close to him? I know 10 isn't a large table but surely you can sideline her to an extent?

The bottom line, sadly, is your fiancee doesn't want to stop seeing this woman. He gets pleasure from her company and rightly or wrongly is part of his life. Like Griff & Ibram say, it's going to be your choice as to how this affects your long term relationship with him. Take a deep breath and really examine your feelings. Good luck.

OK, so he's going out to restaurants and pubs with other women and trying to deceive you about it. You don't trust him, so you are snooping around his computer files. You two have a history of breaking up and getting back together again.

The party is the least of your concerns. Don't marry him. Get out of this relationship before it's too late and you are stuck in a bad marriage.

How much clearer do you need it spelled out? You two are a bad fit for each other. Don't get married.

I'm sorry that this is not what you want to be hearing. In fact, I think you will dismiss it out of hand, so I will say it again so it will sink in.

DON'T MARRY THIS GUY.

Ditto. DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN! He gets reallly 'furious' when you question him about questionable things? That's a classic move--designed to throw you off, think you're crazy and intimidate you. "Why am I here then?" indeed! Coz he likes having many, many women and he always will. He'll NEVER change, baby. Dump him. I dated a man who was constitutionally incapable of keeping it in his pants--the man had women in six counties, I kid you not. He got married, too (needed someone to look after his house and his kid by wife #1) but still messed around with as many as he could. When his wife confronted him, he acted like he was having a heart attack-how COULD she! Etc, etc. It's been years since I knew him but ya know what? Every six months or so he shows up on my doorstep, wondering if I'd like another go. HA! For three years I've flatly turned him down---he was just here last week! He's STILL married! Oh yes, he also screws his ex-wife and all of his ex girlfriends who will let him. I talked with wife number one a couple of times--she told me that when she was married to this asshole his FATHER came on to her! Runs in the family.

What glatt said. The whole thing with this woman is secondary to the fact that:

It only gets harder after you're married, not easier. If the threat of a breakup is that realistic now, you two have no business planning to make it more permanent. DON'T MARRY THIS GUY.

Let's say you "put your foot down" and he didn't invite her. We could go a step further and say maybe he lays off her for a while...

My theory is never tell someone what to do. They will eventually resent you for it...it might take 2 days, 2 weeks, or 20 years, but one day that will finish up boiling inside of them and you will take the brunt of the pain.

So, where does that leave you? With this: if he loves YOU and wants to marry YOU why does he seem so fascinated with HER? Why would HE want to get married as well, if he feels something for her? If he wants to be with you...it shouldn't be so difficult; you should not have to "make" him! Can you imagine a lifetime of trying to "make" him make you the number one person in his life? It would be a lonely marriage.

My guess is he knows she won't leave her husband for whatever reason (is it money, fear, children?) and he may as well do the same and they will just keep on the way they are.

I have to agree with the concensus: do NOT MARRY THIS MAN. Without even knowing you, I know that you deserve better. Practically anyone would!

Rise up, girl...demand respect!

Best of wishes for your decision.

Couples
 

Hello lilly.

Your story sounds like so many other soap operas I've heard about and lived through myself. Monogomy is unnatural, so don't be surprised if your man is indeed craving for that work woman and vice versa. I keep my opposite-sex relationships platonic. As soon as couples start expecting fidelity from their partner, it usually starts getting dysfunctional. That's just what I think. Even when monogomous, most betrothed couples start acting really weird as soon as they promise not to ever be intimate with another. Live on your own for awhile. Make some platonic male friends and you'll really learn what we're like; OK, not ALL of us, but most of us. :neutral:

These other posts say it better than I did, but the message is the same.

I know you don't want to hear any of this. After all, you love this guy, right? The thought of breaking it off with him is more than you can bear. But you don't trust him. You are snooping around his computer. And you have a good reason to. He's got a strong relationship with another woman. He doesn't seem to care that it bothers you. He doesn't respect you. And you don't respect him. It's all a recipe for disaster, and no basis for a marriage.

Please don't marry this guy.

Hey Lilly,
You do know that the two of them are banging like screen doors, right?

For some gals who dig gals and guys, that might mean more fun for you in the bedroom, but it doesn't sound like you've been invited to their party.

If that's your scene, then you'll probably have to gatecrash or be content with her sloppy seconds. If it's not your scene, then why are you engaged to this guy who is already engaged with a married woman?

Keep notes and write your own screenplay.

Be fair, there is a 4% chance that he is hiding it because she is such a jealous creature that every mention of any other woman within the vicinity results in a rash of shit, and the fixation on this particular one is frustrating because she is the only other woman in the office.

But yeah 96% says they are hittin' it in the parking lot.

Maybe you should pop by security and get the video.

There you go Griff, that's what you should watch since the chicas are out tonight...

lillypilly--I don't think you deserve the misery he's causing you with his shady behavior. If you are the one he loves and plans on marrying, then he should be concerned about *your* happiness--not sneaking around with some doe-eyed co-worker.

You may come off as very jealous if you insist that he not invite her to dinner (so what)--but you would also be protecting your right not to be put in an antagonizing situation. I'm sure the rest of the work team would understand only too well why she wasn't invited. If the fiance is embarrassed by it, he would only have himself to blame.

If he leaves you again, tell him not to let the door hit his cheating ass. There are better men out there.

You deserve better!!!! He is involved deeply but it might be platonic, but they are close. I don't know enough to say. But your feelings deserve acknowledgement and you deserve security and peace of mind. Instead of waiting for the other shoe to drop and him leaving you, why not be proactive and leave him? Of course I realize you love him. It's gonna hurt like hell....

But take it as another life lesson, and there are only about 349,856 left for you to learn. So move on and see what else you can encounter in the way of adventures and challenges. Go have fun. Be treated with respect by the next guy or don't give him your heart.

Just because they act like George and Condi, doesn't mean it's more than a friendship. Maybe he gets pissy when you question him because it's the millionth time you've asked the same questions. Maybe he's concealing things because you get pissy over nothing of consequence. Maybe he's trying to work around your clingyness because he actually loves you. Maybe it's all in your imagination.

But, you know what, even if all that were true.....don't marry him.

You don't fit as a couple and with all this shit during the courting stage, I doubt it would work out when you got down to the routine of marriage.

My point is, it really doesn't matter much who's fault it is, you don't play well together. :2cents:

Yeah, he doesn't seem worth marrying as the others say. That much is evident... but it's all too easy for him to blame it all on you if you give him an ultimatum at a work related party. Not that he isn't making you feel wrong already. Break up with him over lying if you need a reason.

I have to admit this hits it it home. Especially the last sentence!!!!! It's one to remember. Finding fault takes a lot of energy and if you know it's not going to get better, skip it and accept failure. There is no shame to that! The only shame would be beating a dead horse on and on and on.....

It's not a failure.
Look, when you go out to buy a dress, you find one you really like then try it on but it doesn't suit you.
Who's failure, yours or the dress designer's?

Deciding you and Mr/Ms X, are not compatible, is NOT a failure. :2cents:

we dont know the full situation.

I used to be in a situation LIKE this though. a girl at my fiance's work drove me INSANE with jealousy for about 5 months when he first started at his new woek. she was "training" him and also befriended him. they would do everything you descibed.. and more. but it was all in my head in the end.. and yes.. my SO used to be furious and go all red and steam out of his ears.. the works ...when i used to question him.. but thats only because i questioned him so many times. i would have a bad dream about them together and i would wake up so upset and wake him at 2am in the mornign and be crying "your fucking her arent you!", and other ridiculous insecure insults and questions.

haha.. i was so insanely jealous.. and she loved every second of it. trying to make me feel like she knew him better than me. dropping little thorns here and there "oh me and deano shared a subway the other day, haha he has those thing so SPICY with all those halapenos.. oh *giggle giggle* i had to make him buy me a juice afterward" spew.

but he really loved me, and it WAS only a friendship in the end and absolutely nothing more i could bet my life on it now.. but back then i was ready to walk out the door. It was more my own insecurities than anything else.

The best thing that got me over it: spending time with her. and being with them together.

Go to this party.. INSIST that he invite her. go to special effort that whole day to look like HOT SHIT. then go.. and show her the fuck up. YOU his hot sexy girlfriend and your the one he sleeps up to everynight and your the one he is MARRYING so that is what matters - and then befriend her. with crocodile smiles of course.

DON'T MARRY THIS GUY. He is absoutely not worth the emotional pain and anguish he will cause you. But do it right - say what you need to say tell him why - hes already got one foot out the door as it is and seems to be too much of a pussy to do it himself. Screw that! Send his weak, lying, cheating ass packin and show HIM up when you see him next with your new REAL man.

Re: woman at work - replies to your questions (long post again!)
 

Thank you everyone who replied! I got such a pleasant surprise today when I managed to get back here. Your replies made me feel sooo much better and your words have helped me so much. Thank you.

I fell in love with my fiance almost at first sight - he treated me differently then, when I knew little about him but thought I knew him. It's so hard to take your heart back once you've given it away.

Many of you had more questions and so here's a bit of an answer. Sorry it’s so long again. I promise to write briefly next time. Sorry I don't know how to insert quotes.

DucksNuts – she is only friendly with him, the others get ignored. If I have dared to say anything, he reacts in anger and stays that way for at least 3 –4 days.

Griff and Sundae Girl – from what I can determine, she joined the company about 3 years ago, but I can’t be sure because, until I saw them together, he never mentioned her!. We were definitely together before he met her - been together 5 yrs.

I am definitely NOT an overly jealous type. My fiance has several other female friends, I have met them socially (one was interested in him before I came along) and I have no issue with them. I had other male friends when we met but he got rid of them all, and even went to leave without me when a stranger spoke to me at a night club. I put my fiance’s insecurity before my friends and was ok with my decision because he meant the world to me and I couldn’t cope with him being angry at me and ending our relationship. I have considered reviving these friendships but don’t want to play ‘tit for tat'. It is the deceit, covering up, defensiveness and ectoplasmic anger towards me that is devastating.

Sundae Girl – re: “Could it be you have worked yourself up to fever pitch and he is hiding things from you because you now have a hair trigger as far as she is concerned?” This is what I was wondering…so can’t answer rationally.
re: “I really don't think you can tell him not to invite her to this dinner, but would you be able to swing it so that she wasn't seated close to him? I know 10 isn't a large table but surely you can sideline her to an extent?” Thanks for trying for me but history has shown that if miraculously she wasn’t seated next to him at a function (eg we got there late and had to sit down the other end), one or other of them gets up and wanders up or down, and they sit together while ‘mingling’.

Glatt - your comment particularly struck home... "He doesn't seem to care that it bothers you." and the conclusion to that.. "He doesn't respect you..."

Bluecuracao – you summed up my thoughts and fears so well, especially, "If you are the one he loves and plans on marrying, then he should be concerned about *your* happiness--...".

If 'concerned' = angry and defensive then he gets points. Generally, if he hurts my feelings and I try to gently let him know, he hits the roof, reacts with anger, I end up in tears and have to drag myself back up alone and then try to make HIM feel better!

XoxoxoBruce – “Maybe he gets pissy when you question him because it's the millionth time you've asked the same questions. Maybe he's concealing things because you get pissy over nothing of consequence. Maybe he's trying to work around your clingyness because he actually loves you. Maybe it's all in your imagination.” Yes, this is exactly what I was wondering.

Sun Sparkz – re: “but he really loved me, and it WAS only a friendship in the end and absolutely nothing more i could bet my life on it now.. but back then i was ready to walk out the door. It was more my own insecurities than anything else.” This is what I’m trying to work out in my situation and I don’t want my insecurities to mess up MY relationship. Did you get over it? Are you now happy and secure?

I guess my question has always been "Am I being paranoid". Your responses have helped me re-consider this issue and, even with just the bare bones of my story, there seems to be some consensus, unfortunately, that my gut feelings are probably correct. I very much believe in trying to be non-judgemental if a relationship ends and “Not being a good fit” will make it easier for me to accept if I decide to finally end it.

I will not take any quick action just yet. I need to absorb all this information! Now that I feel more settled about myself (from reading your replies) I feel much better supported and equipped to think straight, not have a ‘hair trigger’ and even cope with my day!

He actually shouted at me a year ago, "I'm so sick of having to look over my shoulder all the time!!!", Maybe he won’t have to do that very soon...as well as, “ everything would have been all right if I hadn’t looked at his phone”...maybe I won’t have to do that either.

Regarding the dinner, if our relationship lasts until then, (I will play the 'wait and see' game for now...typical of me), I might try and take your advice SUN SPARKZ and…

“Go to this party.. INSIST that he invite her. go to special effort that whole day to look like HOT SHIT. then go.. and show her the fuck up. YOU his hot sexy girlfriend and your the one he sleeps up to everynight and your the one he is MARRYING so that is what matters - and then befriend her. with crocodile smiles of course.”

Geez, if I could pull that one off, I’d have achieved something lol. Watch this space.

Thanks again everyone. I feel empowered and that people really care. I look forward to reading and learning from all your other postings!

Much love,
Lillypilly.

I agree with SS...go to the affair, do a total hottie, bordering on slutty, routine and rub her face in it. Stand your ground right beside him, and give her the evil eye when she tries to move in.

You need lessons from my wife, who defends her turf like a mother lion if another woman so much as smiles at me. She knows I'm an attention slut and incapable of defending myself. Sigh.

Must remember that 'spode, hey, I never realised you were in MO...I'm coming to MO in the next few months :)

Well?? whats going on? We need an update.

3-4 days? that's him 'punishing' you. Getting angry when you gently suggest that you are hurt? That's a man who cannot bear being 'questioned' by his woman. Removing your male friends from the picture and threatening to leave without you when a man talks to you? That's not jealousy, that's control. This man is a control freak. He is exerting control over your life and emotional well-being. This is why he threatens to leave you when you try to exert any power in the relationship.

My advice is to end it. I would be inclined to say he is dangerous to your emotional health. Ask yourself these questions:

"How much have I altered in the last five years? How many of my own friends do I still have contact with? Is my social life dependant upon him and his friends?"

Just a thought long after the subject has been played out, but perhaps you should become very "friendly" with a ficticious neighbor, coworker, or whatever and see how he likes it. I hate guys like this cuz they give normal men a bad rep, but it seems like he wants to play games and if you wanna stay with him (for whatever reason) then play the game too. Personally I'd walk, but it's up to you.
By the way - did the party happen yet? What happened, how bout an update.

The girl at the office may have smoked her in the parking lot when she caught them going at it out there. Sounds like a very young woman's angles on the whole situation. Experience is the only thing that teaches most people these lessons.

I'm not in the mood to be eloquent and my break at work is almost over so I'll be breif:

Drop that sonovabitch like the poisionous snake he is! You are in a clearly abusive relationship and are playing second fiddle to someone else, run while you still can unless you think you can get rich on the divorce deal!

(ok, that last was cruel of me...)

lilly....just gotta say I agree 100% with all the great advice you've been given here....he does sound controlling and uncaring...I think when you take a good hard look at the changes that have taken place in you over the last five years, you will see things even more clearly. It is not healthy to be unhappy all the time, and you dropped all of your friends!?......I'm sure you have an old friend who cares a lot, maybe you should consider asking someone like that what changes they have seen in you since this relationship started, and what they think. (I know that helped me once to hear what others were seeing in me...)
Good luck! DO NOT MARRY THIS GUY!!!

I ask you this... knowing EVERYTHING that you know, especially the stuff we do not, the stuff you don't want to tell us, what advice would you give someone else? Right now, without time to think about it, she is walking out the door to talk to him.

Stuff like this only worsens as time continues and a relationship endures the stresses of normal life. If he is acting this way now, I can't imagine how things would get better later on. One question - Is this how you want to be treated for the rest of your life?