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-   -   Bad choices of lovers (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=11171)

xoxoxoBruce 07-06-2006 04:10 AM

Bad choices of lovers
 
Big V posted a link here that is nsfw but the site had an excellent page on why Women are attracted to men that are bad for them and why nice guys get dumped for bad boys.
Quote:

Why are women attracted to men who are bad for them? I'm a pretty nice guy, yet it seems like most girls would rather go out with someone who's going to treat them like dirt.

Here's the scene. There you are, in a crowded night club, when across the haze you spot HER. She's beautiful, and all alone, and looks a little sad. You make your way to her, only to discover that she's been stood up. How can this be? She's so pretty, and exciting, and, with a few beers in her, tons of fun. Over the next few weeks you help her move, pick up her cat at the vet, and take her shopping for sun dresses. Then one day, you stop by to drop off her taxes, just in time to see her drive away on the back of a bike with some musician. "Why, oh why do women always fall for these bad boys?" you cry to yourself. "I'm so nice to her, why doesn't she want to be with me?"

Why indeed. I'm going to suggest that the problem here is not the women. There are masses of nice, single, attractive, women looking for a nice single guy. You couldn't throw a dart out the window without hitting any number of women willing, if not eager, to date a nice guy (though I don't suggest this particular strategy for picking up women). But you walk right past these women to the one hanging upside down from the rafters with her skirt over her head, don't you? Your knees go weak when you hear a sob story from a pretty girl in a short skirt. Admit it. I see it all the time, psycho women with men flocked around them like they have tickets to the World Series concealed in the hems of their miniskirts. You may not want to hear this my friend, but the real question here is why are you attracted to women who leave you for bad boys? Women who obviously see you as some sort of sister or female cousin? Women who have no intention of sleeping with you but instead use and then discard you like some sort of generic Kleenex?

The majority of datable women are nice and normal and perfectly happy with a nice and relatively normal guy. You know them. They're the ones you sit and moan to about the most recent woman to leave you for a drug dealer. You never even thought about dating one of them did you? Well, forget it. There's no way they're going to go out with you now that they know your pattern. Certain men go for women who will dump them for bad boys for four reasons. Find yourself in one of these categories so that you can avoid these pitfalls in the future.

1. Men confuse "fun girl" with "raving loony."

Some men have a lot of trouble distinguishing between women who are a lot of fun and women who are actually insane. What you thought was spontaneity and joy for life actually turned out to be violent mood swings and a raging drug problem. All that unpredictability isn't so much fun when she dumps you for a bass player is it? This type of person is actually pretty self centered and only cares what happens to you to the extent that it affects the little drama that is her life. Here are some tips for telling the difference between women who are having fun from those who are out to destroy as many lives as they possibly can. Sane women can have fun without actually jeopardizing the lives of those around them. A not-so-sane person thinks it would be fun to drive to the bad part of town and pick a fight in a biker bar. Sane women have been known to get a little tipsy and may, every now and then, dance on a table. Not-so-sane women routinely ingest large amounts of alcohol and/or pharmaceuticals just to get through the morning. If she claims that the lithium was prescribed by her dermatologist for acne, beware. Also, there is a difference between uninhibited and indiscriminate. Your sane women friends find it mildly amusing when you're shocked to discover that the woman who gave you head within an hour of meeting you has been sleeping with five other guys.

2. Some men like women whose lives are in constant turmoil.

It's the classic Snow White phenomenon. She can't get along with her family so she gets kicked out the house and wanders around aimlessly until these seven guys take pity on her and take her in. She's so sweet and lost and pretty. They'll save her and she will love them. Only while they're off toiling in a mine (a mine for crying out loud!) she's hanging around the house concocting schemes to piss off her stepmother and make out with that guy who goes traipsing around the countryside on a horse. A guy, mind you, with no apparent means of gainful employment. So despite the fact that the seven guys take care of her, never lay a hand on her, sit by her side after she gets hold of a bad apple, she goes off with the guy on the horse who just shows up one day and sticks his tongue down her throat. A guy who has not been toiling in a mine and who will dump her on her ass for a blonde -- probably Cinderella. The problem here is that this type of woman has a master's degree in bad judgment and is not content unless her life is in a state of chaos. Some men seem to be attracted to this woman because she appears to need rescuing. But a relationship is based on who you are, not what you can do for the other person. If you're the kind of person who gets all mushy at a girl's sad story you will always find yourself in the role of the horny dwarf because no one has ever been able to fix another person's life, ever. You either get your shit together on your own or you don't -- another person can not do it for you. Don't pass up women who can mange their own lives because you think they don't need you and won't like you. It is possible to have a satisfying relationship with someone who can take care of herself.

3. There are actually women who like dangerous guys.

Frankly, guys on the edge are kind of sexy. But for most women it's like garter belts, fine in theory, but not something you want to deal with on a regular basis. When it comes down to it, most women are more turned on by a guy who will help put up her bookshelves and play with her dog than one who will steal her money and screw her sister. There are, of course, some women who keep going for the bad boy because these women have low self-esteem. Their logic goes something like, "If he's nice to everyone, how do I know that he really likes me. Therefore, I must date someone who is an asshole 90% of the time." You don't want to get involved with someone like this because they just drag you down into their pit of self-loathing and despair. This person needs a therapist, not a boyfriend. Don't even think about trying to save them -- you'll only end up a horny dwarf again. Then there are women who not only prefer dangerous guys, but do very well with them. These women are usually pretty dangerous themselves. You don't have a prayer with this type of women. Don't feel bad. Some people prefer pralines and cream to chocolate chip -- there's no accounting for taste. If you find yourself consistently attracted to this type of woman it's because you want what you can't have. That kind of behavior is uncalled for so cut it out.

4. There are actually men who are too nice.

They fall into the doormat or bastard subcategories. The doormats tend to have low self-esteem and are too nice because they think it's the only way to hold on to a relationship. But no one wants to date a guy they can walk all over. Actually, some women do -- but this type of woman will remove your testicles and wear them as charms on her bracelet. Unless you enjoy constant harping, you want to avoid this type of woman. The other type of too nice guy is the bastard. This is the passive aggressive prick who thinly veils his hostility with false niceness. His specialty is emotional blackmail. Do you tell women that whatever they want to do is fine with you and then pout and complain about what they choose? Do you argue all the time because you are constantly doing nice things without being asked and yet you feel that you do not get the recognition you deserve? Do you consider guilt tripping another person a recreational activity? If you answered yes to these questions, you're not really being nice out of the kindness of your heart -- you're doing it to manipulate the other person and most people will see through you like a pane of glass. Guys who are too nice do not get dumped for bad boys, they get dumped for guys who have backbone. Guys who realize that they don't have to be a doormat to get someone to spend time with them. Guys who can ask for what they want instead of resorting to emotional blackmail and crass manipulation. If you think you fall into this category, try counseling to deal with your self-esteem and hostility issues.

So, take a good look at the type of women you have been attracted to in the past. Especially the ones who dumped you for creepy guys. Figure out the pattern and break it. Because there is a woman who will appreciate a nice fellow such as yourself. She's buying her own drinks, she's volunteering for a local charity, she's doing something interesting and creative, she's got her shit together and she's frustrated because you would rather go out with nutty women. Trust me when I tell you that you will be much better off with someone sane, who likes you for who you are, and can take care of herself.

We'll get back to the smut in the next article, I promise.

Alexis Williams has a Masters Degree in Public Health from Emory University. Her specialty is health education.

BigV 07-06-2006 10:45 AM

Nice article, xoB. Ms Williams has a talent for writing, and the promise at the end of the article is kept (but in an intelligent, articulate way). I read several of them, and enjoyed almost all the ones I read. Kind of like those magazines, but really for the articles this time. Especially since it's all text.:rolleyes: Check her out.

Oh, and I don't really know about the bad boiz thang. I *hated* the dating scene. I wasn't interested in someone who wasn't interested in me.

rkzenrage 07-06-2006 11:31 AM

It is simpler than that... because they are idiots and don't think they deserve them (a nice guy).
Self-sabotage.

AlternateGray 07-06-2006 12:25 PM

Has anyone else heard of a research study (done long ago) that found that women's view of what is attractive could vary depending on hormone levels?

Nevermind, found it. (I am the Google master)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/sci/tech/376321.stm

Beestie 07-07-2006 12:35 AM

I always figured that a girl's first love is her dad (even tho in the way that little girls love their daddy). If her dad is an abusive/irresponsble ass then she'll be prone to fall for any guy that a) she is attracted to that b) treats her like her father did.

Its not that women don't think they deserve a nice guy its that the nice guys aren't interesting to them - nice guys can't reach their deeper emotional zones and a deep attraction to one just isn't going to happen.

Having an asshole for a father really is a curse that follows women around for the rest of their lives.

DucksNuts 07-07-2006 05:35 AM

I'm the ..."ohh bad boys are so sexy" type of girl, then I figure out they are arseholes (well doh! thats what attracted me to them in the first place)....so I dump them or they cheat and I think ..."I need a nice guy"...but then another bad boy comes along :3eye:

BUT!!! there may be hope for me yet. :blush:

MsSparkie 07-07-2006 07:00 AM

I hope you will all read my post in the "How you become prey to a charmer/abuser" thread. Open the attachment, It's long but very informative.
Perhaps print it and read it later.

:-)

KinkyVixen 07-13-2006 05:21 PM

I think that most of the problem is that people just don't know what they want...and then on top of that people get conditioned as kids because of other relationships they see, what they live with, etc. I'm a good girl with a bad side (in the right places) who just wants someone to love me for who I am...I didn't think that was too much to ask for, but apparently it is. I wouldn't date a "bad boy" just for the record...but I guess that depends on who you ask and what their idea of a bad boy is.

Hoof Hearted 07-13-2006 10:13 PM

I watched a tv show some years ago about this subject...
What it basically stated was women are attracted to the risk takers, daredevils, men who appear strong (either with physical or mental-intimidation strengths) because they think the man will be strong enough to protect them. After they 'get' the man they want to change them into providers because they now have a family and should stop taking the risks.
Another reason why so many of these types of relationships fail.

It seemed primitive, yet totally understandable, to me. At least by thinking of human nature in relation to how nature actually works in the animal kingdom.

Iggy 07-14-2006 10:38 AM

I agree with KinkyVixen. People just don't know what they want. There is some self-sabotage as well though. Especially with people who have been abused. In my experience, they feel like they are damaged goods and don't deserve someone who will treat them well.

Stormieweather 07-14-2006 11:43 AM

Actually, victims of abuse gravitate towards what they know. I call it their 'discomfort zone'. There are behaviors and attitudes they are familiar with and within which they have learned to function. Their lack of self-esteem attracts abusers who see a likely target. People who have been abused haven't learned what healthy boundaries are and abusive types easily charm them (commonly using techniques that other people would reject as absurd).

Usually, abuse victims come from chaotic backgrounds and in many cases, have become addicted to the adreneline high of drama. They don't feel 'alive' unless they are involved in some sort of crisis and bad boys/girls provide that. Nice guys/girls bore them. They bore themselves. External thrills, risks, are what they're after in order to continue to experience life on the edge.

It takes a lot of work on self to learn to love oneself when life has taught you that you are unworthy and without value. It takes effort to discover that a peaceful existence is highly preferable to the roller coaster of drama.

<gets down off her soapbox>

Stormie

rkzenrage 07-14-2006 02:03 PM

My wife and I call them Chaos-junkies.
They complain about all the crap in their lives, but as soon as there is a lull, they will DO something to make shit happen. They just can't stand quiet.
Or if they start dating someone who is good for them, they won't be able to stand them.
The other side of it are the Tea-sippers... the two types backstage in a theatres. One type runs around starting crap and the other sits and drinks tea or coffee, reviewing their script and doing their make-up.
The Chaos-junkies are always drawn to the Tea-sippers but can't stand them at the same time.

xoxoxoBruce 07-15-2006 01:34 AM

Chaos-junkies need someone to notice.
Tea-sippers are always available. :haha:

rkzenrage 07-17-2006 02:56 PM

Exactly. Plus, they need good advice to ignore.

LabRat 07-19-2006 10:44 AM

It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye...


MONROE, Conn. Jul 18, 2006 (AP)— A 46-year-old man is accused of assaulting his wife with a carrot, causing her to lose sight in one eye. Roderick Vecsey is charged with second-degree assault and disorderly conduct.

Pamela Vecsey, 46, underwent six hours of surgery after being hit in the left eye with the vegetable Saturday night, but doctors were not able to restore her vision, prosecutor Stephanie Damiani said.

The couple was arguing when Roderick Vecsey tossed the carrot, Damiani said.

Roderick Vecsey told Judge Patrick Carroll that it was a terrible accident, and was advised to remain silent.

The judge set a hearing for Thursday. Vecsey is currently free after posting $500 bond.


Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

skysidhe 07-19-2006 11:08 AM

Great article Bruce.


I think mutual respect and compatibility should replace love at first. Love should grow out respect and compatibility and not the other way around.

Clodfobble 07-19-2006 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe
I think mutual respect and compatibility should replace love at first.

Nah, they should just ban all use of carrots.

dar512 07-19-2006 01:02 PM

If it were me, I'd ban all use of Brussel Sprouts for being stinky. But that's probably another topic.

skysidhe 07-19-2006 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble
Nah, they should just ban all use of carrots.


Ok have it your way. I am agreeable.

First, Carrots should stay out of eyes .


Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512
If it were me, I'd ban all use of Brussel Sprouts for being stinky. But that's probably another topic.

no not another topic at all. If you can't stab them in the eye with a carrot then one should most definatly cook brussel sprouts on that first bad date.

yesman065 07-20-2006 07:51 AM

Bad boys/girls can make your life exciting in the short run, but that "image" typically wears off rather quickly, only to be replaced by the realization of how shallow a person they really are. It is then that the cycle begins to repeat itself with a new "bad boy/girl". Once one matures and desires a more meaningful lasting relationship, the desire for the bad boy/girl subsides a great deal. Its difficult to picture one with a career and a nice house with a garage and the kids playing with the dog in the backyard. just a thought.

yesman065 07-20-2006 07:52 AM

Oh and how does cabbage fit into all of tis, cuz if we can eliminate a vegetable, it would definitely be on my list.

xoxoxoBruce 07-22-2006 06:06 PM

HTML Code:

First, Carrots should stay out of eyes .
Absolutely, no carrots above the waist. :D

wolf 07-22-2006 06:11 PM

But I thought carrots were supposed to be good for your eyes?

I checked some carrots in the house, and not one of them is marked "For internal use only."

Stormieweather 07-22-2006 06:39 PM

Define internal.

MaggieL 07-23-2006 09:09 PM

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lg3683.jpg

Brooke of the Land 07-26-2006 12:46 AM

On the idea of having asshole fathers, and how that affects what type of man a girl will fall for... while my own father was not abusive (either emotionally or physically), he definitely was not Mr. Brady, either. For most of my life, all I remember is him being argumentative, disagreeable, and flat-out jerkish. Because of that, I promised myself that I would never fall for the kind of guy my father was/sometimes still is. I learned what kind of warning signs to avoid, and if I saw those traits in a partner, it was time to move on. Granted, I'm young yet and probably have not seen as much of the world as some people think I should, I've found a guy I want to spend the rest of my life with, and am going to marry in less than a year. He's probably the most opposite from my dad as a person can get, and I couldn't be happier with him.

I can see how many girls would get comfortable in the familiar feelings of what they grew up with, but there is the other side to take into consideration. Having a jerk father can definitely drive a girl to look for the good guys out there.

Clodfobble 07-26-2006 11:15 AM

Congratulations, Brooke. Step one is complete.

Step two is making sure YOU don't become the one in the relationship who is like your father. ;)

Hoof Hearted 07-26-2006 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble
Step two is making sure YOU don't become the one in the relationship who is like your father. ;)

What happens when you turn out like your mother? :eek:

Trilby 07-26-2006 11:35 AM

I'm just gonna put this out there for whatever it's worth and I'm not making any sort of comparison, etc. so don't jump on me. that said, I was POSITIVE that I'd found the solar opposite to my father when I married bachelor number two. Turns out, he was my father in a very clever disguise. I have always, always fallen for the Ultra Controlling Type--even if I found them dancing and 'shrooming at a Dead concert. I'm like a heat-seeking missle when it comes to finding the Most Controlling Jerk in a Crowd of Thousands. Let the buyer beware.

Stormieweather 07-26-2006 12:12 PM

I knew I didn't want a mate like my mother OR my father and thought for sure I'd made the right choice when I married the first time. Turns out he was just like dear old daddy, only much worse. He simply hid it better during the courtship.

Eight years after our divorce, I made the same mistake again :redface: ...but thats another story. Evidently I didn't learn the lessons life offered me the first time around.

Stormie

footfootfoot 07-26-2006 12:29 PM

Brussels sprouts and all other brassicas (cole crops) aren't worth eating until they've been hit with a few hard frosts. The plants create more sugars as an anti freeze. They will be much sweeter then. There are advantages to the modern world of fruit year round and anything you want whenever, but the downside is that many people have neither farmed nor gardened so have no idea why parsnips suck in the middle of the summer, apples and tomatoes taste like cardboard in June (YMMV depending on lat. and long.) and why cauliflower, broccoli, and brussels often stink. Pick the sprouts in January or February after scraping away a foot of snow. They'll look up at you, blink their eyes a few times and say: "Yooooooo, Duuuuuude. What's up, man?"

Then you eat them.

How does this relate to lovers? Anything in the realm of human existence has an analogy in the plant kingdom. In this case, it isn't that the sprouts are bad lovers, per se, it is just that they were improperly harvested and prepared. Coupled with an unrealistic expectation to have Brussels sprouts in July.

Back to my regularly scheduled dosage...

DucksNuts 07-26-2006 09:55 PM

I'm totally confused on the love front at the moment.

I *want* to be treated like a princess, or at least nicely. I wont go overboard and say I am looking for the perfect guy, who will treat me like a princess and who is house trained, or can at least clean up after himself, with no really bad habits... I dont even need someone to look after me - I'm totally self sufficient.

But why is it that I sent the guy who could (and did) treat me like that away? and the lovely guy who is dead set on treating me like that....I have no spark with?

Yet the guy that makes my heart flutter with insecurity, doesnt really let me in (I'm hoping that will change as things progress?) and although is a *nice* guy, doesnt display any of the things I am looking for... HE makes my heart go boom-boom in the most frustrating way??

I think I'm bipolar, I spend all day going "end it, its never going to work, end it before he breaks your heart" to "I love him, I dont want to be without him". Fuck me, I'm like a teenager again :thepain:

xoxoxoBruce 07-27-2006 09:56 PM

Sure, but when you get done paper training, house breaking, dressing him up.......will he still make you wet? :eyebrow:

DucksNuts 07-28-2006 05:39 AM

Geez Bruce, ask the hard questions why dont you??

Thats the problem, my heart says I want the nice guy who will treat me like a princess, but my girly bits have other ideas....bloody hormones!!!

Undertoad 07-28-2006 06:07 AM

Go with the nice guy, and on the fourth date, ask him to spank your ass, because you've clearly been a very bad, bad girl.

Flint 07-28-2006 08:52 AM

Find a closet freak with some kind of neurosis that forces him to be a nice guy on the surface. That seems to have worked out pretty well for my wife.

DucksNuts 07-28-2006 05:32 PM

See Flint, thats kinda what I thought had come along.

I'll just try and ride this out and see where I end up :)

footfootfoot 07-28-2006 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint
Find a closet freak with some kind of neurosis that forces him to be a nice guy on the surface. That seems to have worked out pretty well for my wife.

Problem is I'm already married and don't live in Oz

Spexxvet 08-21-2006 01:15 PM

I've had a theory for a long time. Women are "hard wired" to be attracted to the biggest, meanest M-Fer in the tribe. Back in prehistoric times, the Alpha male was best suited to protect a woman. This gave her (and her offspring) the best chance at surviving, and included some nice percs. Now though, the best suited to protect and provide is an MBA. So women have this almost innate conflict - their gut/emotional desire to got with the brute, their rational analysis to go with the nerd.

limey 08-21-2006 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad
Go with the nice guy, and on the fourth date, ask him to spank your ass, because you've clearly been a very bad, bad girl.

Is that how Jacquelita won you over?

Undertoad 08-21-2006 05:31 PM

Naw, she won me over on the third date.

rkzenrage 08-21-2006 11:45 PM

My niece is into assholes... I keep telling her to date men she is not attracted to. Nice men. She just wants to be their friends.
You get what you ask for... then you bitch about it.


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