Why Can't Men Say the Things We Women Need to Hear?
 

For instance...my husband made a comment last night about a "project" of mine. I have things that I make and sell on-line and I ship them in a small box. I prefer to do that because I don't want to take the chance of them getting mangled in the mail by shipping them in a padded envelope. Well, every time he sees me packaging up a shipment he ALWAYS makes the comment "isn't there a different way to ship those?" and I ALWAYS explain why I ship them in a box. So last night when I was boxing up a package he made that comment again. I think I kept my cool pretty well. I said with a smile "you don't like the box...do you." He said "it just seems like overkill to send it in a box. I just thought there might be another less expensive way." I told him, like I've told him time and time again, that it costs the same to send it in a small box as it does to send it in a padded envelope. I said "i've explained over and over why I ship in a box and still every time you see me package an order up you make that comment." Plus...he is the "weed police" as I call it. We'll be in the yard and I'll point out some flowers that are coming up in the flower beds that I've worked so hard on and he'll say they are pretty and point out a weed. Or in the garden I've planted (he usually does the veggie garden, but he has other things going on this year so I'm doing one) I pointed out how the plants are starting to come up and he points out weeds that I need to take care of. It just seems like lots of negatives that I don't need right now. It would be much better to hear "the flowers are sure pretty", "the garden is doing good", and "that's a great way to ship your product."

deja vu...

OK...you want an explanation?

Here's the deal:

He says: "isn't there a different way to ship those?"

You hear: "Thiose silly little things you're shipping out don't deserve an entire box. "

You're thinking "I'm sending out a little piece of myself here and I don't want it to get hurt on the way to somebody I'm hoping will love it."

He meant to say "I care about your project and I want to be helpful; since I'm the practical one maybe I can help you save money."

But he can't even say that....because he's a guy, and it's against the rules for guys.

This is a subject I know more than a little about. You don't know why yet but hang around here long enough and you'll find out. :-)

Wow! MaggieL, pick any prize on the top shelf!

Being able to remember that in the heat of battle is her next task.

OK Maggie...I understand where you are coming from. That Mars Venus mentality. So if guys are so incapable of saying the things we want to hear–as you say "it's not in their rules"–then why do they say all the right things to get us "hooked" in the first place. Then as the years go by and I say "why don't you do the things you used to do"…his reply is "that's not how I am". Excuse me?! If that's not how you are, then who was that guy I fell in love with. Where did he go? Because I want that man back. The one that used to call me at work just to see how my day was going. The one that would make the bed and leave me notes on it. The one who did all these tiny, yet extremely meaningful things that meant so much to me. Where did he go? I'm not saying he has to do that mushy romantic stuff all the time. I'm not living in a fantasy world. I just want him to do the things he used to do that made me feel so special and cherished. Is that too much to ask? Coming from his wife who makes sure he has a clean home, clean clothes, good food on the table, and good food in the fridge for his lunches. This is coming from his wife who, no matter how rough her day was at work, comes home and fixes dinner, tries to be in a good mood for him, tries to be romantic on occassion wheather I am in the mood or not, and asked about and am interested in how his day went. When was the last time myself or any other wife could expect all that from their husband. If they do the slightest little bit of housework, etc. we feel compelled to thank them and make them feel like they just conquered the world.

So tell me....why do men go from being so sweet, concerned, romantic, and caring to inconsiderate, romantics only if it involves sex, with "I'm not doing anything I don't want to do" attitudes.

It's simple: he has what he wants and knows it isn't going away, so he's become complacent. But what can you do about it? You say he used to do little things to make you feel special. What did you do? This isn't a jab at you, but maybe you can jumpstart his romance gene again if you initiate some yourself.

If any of this makes you feel resentful, don't do it. It may be easier said than done, since some women are still conditioned from childhood to do these things automatically. But if it doesn't make you happy to do them, it's not doing either of you any good.

Yeah, well...unique point of view here :-)

Well...I doubt you're exactly the same person too.

Do you want me to tell you that his priorities and motivations have shifted with his testosterone levels?

Did you expect to be courted for the rest of your life? That ain't gonna happen.

Or did you just want to complain? :-) That's cool too...this is a good place for it.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to try to maintain a sexual relationship while on a heavy Effexor dose...I've been on both sides of that fence (on lower doses) but fortunately my encounter was only for a few months after the end of a 23 year marriage...I wasn't looking for any nookie at that particular juncture. Wouldn't have been prudent.

So that may be a factor too. Especially when you're..

Even though his behavior might lead you to think he's too headblind to know the difference when you're "trying to be romantic" as opposed to "actually being romantic"...don't. He probably can...even if he isn't conciously aware of it.

One important reason guys don't express emotions well isn't that they don't have them. They just don't *know* they do...the part of the brain that does language and concious thought is pretty highly insulated from the part that emotes and empathizes, much more so than in women. This is partly innate wiring and partly hormonal. SNAG (Senitive New Age Guy) is a tough row to hoe.

i would recommend The 5 Love Languages to any and everyone who asks the questions that are puzzling you. Yes, it is by a Christian author and he doesn't hide that, but the book isn't an attempt to convert anyone. It is straight up good interpersonal stuff that may help you here.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=...0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

Thanks, Lookout. I already have that book.

Maggie...

No....of course not...I'm not the same person....nobody is. But, I still continue to do the little things that he likes. I give him backrubs....alot. I make him great dinners, I snuggle with him (sometimes with no response at all from him). I help with his projects, etc. no matter what I'm in the middle of at that moment...I drop what I am doing and help. I compliment him on his projects and accomplishments, etc., etc.

Yes it is hard to be romantic while being on Effexor.

Well...you know there's a word for the kind of woman who ultimately finds herself unable to forgive guys for being guys. The word is "lesbian". :-) Of course, there is the story about the lesbian who finally gave it up because she couldn't handle the emotional demands...so we're all between Scylla and Charybdis there.

Speaking of Scylla and Charybdis, I'm bi, myself. Sometimes I think the only way I find the space for forgive guys for being guys even that much might best be described as "nostalgia". :-)


As long as we're mooting-about self-help/relationship books, here's two quotes from one:

Get the Mars/Venus book. It really explains the hows and whys of the whole communications style differences thing, in very easy to understand terms.

Did you respond with, "Oh dear, pull that out will you?" When he did the veggie garden, was it always perfect? Tell him the weeds help retain the moisture and feed the soil with nitrogen. Or that you'll go fix some lemonade while he takes care of them. Mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter. If you do mind, tell him.....in no uncertain terms. Don't hint, don't beat around the bush, straight out tell him.
He may be shocked, he may even get pissed.....but he'll get over it, believe me.;)

At this point I get the sense there's a lot more gone awry here than the usual Mars v. Venus stuff.

I'd start implementing those "steps to healthy communications" from my earlier posts...because when it's gotten to the point of venting to [relative] strangers online the relationship talk is failing utterly.

Strangers? We's family. :D

"[relative] strangers". Our welcoming attitude aside, if people on a BBS she joined last week are not strangers relative to her husband, something's even wronger than I thought...

Y'gotta admit, we're all pretty strange, here...

You got that right. All my relatives are a little strange.

Sometimes its best to just vent to "Relative Strangers" that way you can say ABSOLUTELY whatever you want without real repercussions. Many times you will also get the responses you NEED not just the ones you WANT. Its amazing how you can tailor your vent to a friend to make them sympathetic to your stance whereby here "In da Cellar" you will be told in no uncertain terms exactly what the real deal is. If you are right you'll know and if you're wrong - boy will Bruce let you know ;)

Tell him how it makes you feel, exactly how it makes you feel.
Then tell him to stop saying it.
If he doesn't like the weeds he can pull em'.

At the same time, it is true that no one can expect to be courted for life, that is just silly, unless you put-out the same amount as you did & in the same way when you were being courted while overlooking as much too.

Well...I did say this was a good place to vent if that's what you wanted to do. But sometimes venting gets in the way of doing important communicating in a relationship because it temporarily relieves the pressure without actually improving the situation. External validation is well and good as far as it goes, but it's not a substitute for doing the hard work.

True but it can be a way to check if you're completely whacked before going ahead with the work.

Not exactly, I'll let you know what I think, but that doesn't mean I'm right. You have to evaluate that for yourself. All I promise, is to be honest, but it's still an opinion. :D

"Not exactly, I'll let you know what I think, but that doesn't mean I'm right. You have to evaluate that for yourself. All I promise, is to be honest, but it's still an opinion."

Sorry Bruce - as usual you are correct - I made a poor choice of words.

Maggie, I never meant to imply that it was a substitute for anything. I do think that is can be used as a trial balloon which can avoid one from having to needlessly enter into conflict management.

I lurked on this board for a while before starting to post. I found that this place was a refreshing change from the other boards I hang out at.

I've lways considered myself a bit of an oddball, I always go against the grain.
In that respect, I feel somewhat at home here, and at the same time, I'm finding myself in unchartered waters, 'cause sometime I'm not sure what to say.

:cool:

I often tell her exactly what she wants to hear. When I get caught it gets ugly.

Nor did I meant to imply I thought you implied it...but I've certainly seen people use it as a substitute. I think that's one reason we see online relationships supplant face-to-face ones so often.

You can't please everyone so you gotta please yourself.
Just say what you're thinking and if someone disagrees, so what? If you're being honest you probably won't come off like an asshole. And if you do, someones is sure to tell you.:lol2:

When I read the first post in this thread it made me think of my brother. There were only the two of us kids in our family and life wasn't always grand, but it was pretty good most of the time. We were lucky.

The thing that reminds me of my brother in the first post is that in every aspect of life, he sees the negatives eg weeds (a particular pet hate of my brothers) or spending too much on postage or just posting stuff wrongly according to his particular set of rules.

I would like to say that I don't believe this particular school of thought has anything to do with anyone's sex. It's got to do with each individual school of thought. Where some people like to see the positives, others like to see the negatives.

Being a positive person myself, I find it difficult to understand why people prefer to feel negatively about things. What benefit can there possibly be? Does it give them a sense of superiority to point out that you're not perfect? I think perhaps yes. At least, that's what Dr Phil would say I'm sure. Maybe it's just plain jealousy that causes someone to only see the negative things and never comment on the positives.

Fortunately for me, the man in my life is very supportive and positive about everything I do, unless it's something stupid, in which case, I probably don't need him to tell me that anyway. ;)

I think that this is spot on. It's down to personalities and points of view MUCH more than gender.

You know, I wonder too;
Why do women need to hear those things men don't? :confused:

For me...I need to hear those things to know that everything is alright. It makes me feel appreciated when he does the things he used to do when we first met. And I hate it when people say..."oh, guys aren't like that. They can't express their true emotions." That's a bunch of bull...because they sure know how to say and do all the right things when they are trying to get us to date them, marry them, have sex with them, etc. In the Mars Venus book it says that Women need to feel cherished and men need to feel needed. When he says loving things and such it makes me feel cherished.

That's not expressing true emotions, that's using what you want, as a tool to get what we want. ;)

Whatever

The rudest thing anyone can ever say.
Ironic in this thread.

My wife and I talked about this... she said that she would hate it if I still played the "games of dating still" she much prefers to know me as I really am and how I truly feel. Her "friend, lover and true companion" not some guy "trying to impress her".
Guess she grew out of the neediness.
I'm very fortunate.

That tells me goldencomfort1968 is not interested in the truth. She just wants to whine about men. Pity.:right:

I share more of how I actually feel with my current SO than I ever did with my ex. My current SO appreciates my openness and honesty a great deal. Me? I feel akward telling her a lot of how I feel and it used to make me feel somewhat "less a man" at first and now I fel more empowered and free knowing that I can express my emotions without repercussions, being looked down upon, or less "manly". Thats my biggest gripe - that men apparently aren't supposed to behave a certain way and then we are judged negatively for doing so.

I'm sorry...my intentions were not to be rude. That comment was simply out of frustration of not being able to get my point across. I feel that I have been missunderstood and that all I want to do is "whine" and "complain" about men. I don't feel that is true. I'm not looking for my husband to constantly cater to me or constantly be in a romantic mood showering me with flowers, love and affection. I'm simply wishing he'd do more of the loving gestures that he used to do rather than acting the way he is now and has been for quite some time. I'm simply expressing how much I miss that and how that made me feel appreciated and how his actions now make me feel unappreciated.

For instance...and a small example...last summer I had to have an emergency appendectomy. I had surgery late at night and was released late the following day. My husband stayed the night with me in a recliner next to my hospital bed. That was so sweet and caring of him. I really felt truly loved. He stopped at the pharmacy on our way home so he could pick up my prescriptions, etc. He helped get me settled and took good care of me for a couple days. This was over the weekend because my surgery was on a Thursday night and I was released Friday late afternoon. Then when he went back to work everything changed. He got a horrible attitude. Under Dr's orders, I couldn't drive for a week. I was instructed to move around as much as possible but to be sure not to overdue it or I would aggrivate everything and end up back in surgery. So, I made a dinner with what I had on hand at home and with that we were able to have leftovers for a couple days. One evening I made something different out of the leftovers so that he could just warm it up when he got home late from having to put in some extra hours at work. When he got home, he looked in the fridge disguisted. Stormed out of the house with barely saying a word. Meanwhile I'm left there wondering what was wrong and what I had done. He comes back home in a few minutes with all the makings for pizza. And at 8:00 at night he started making pizza. Never once did he ask if I was doing OK, if we needed anything because he was going to the store, or if I had dinner yet. I was very hurt and upset and trying to get well on top of all of this. He couldn't understand why I was so upset. I tried to explain to him and asked why he didn't eat what I had already made for him and he yelled at me (his wife...a few days into recovering from surgery) and said "I've had chicken ALL WEEK!!" Even though I had put the effort out to make it into something different when I didn't feel well.

So, yes...I guess I'm still a little bitter about that and other times he's hurt my feelings. Maybe I am complaining....I feel I have that right. And NO this incident I just described isn't the only one...It's just an example of many that have occured lately. There was another time after I came home from the hospital following a bout with kidney stones that he just left me to fend for myself. Yet, when he had hernia surgery, I was there for him (yes, because I wanted to be there for him) and made sure he had whatever he needed.

I agree with you, this is wrong, but as far removed from romance as the problem as something can be.
This is a common courtesy/caring issue... wayyyy beyond lack of communication.
We learned long ago, those whom it is easiest to forget to be polite to are those you need to be the most polite to, the most often.
An excuse me for a burp in bed goes a LONG damn way.
Please pardon me for saying so, but it is time for marriage counseling... trust me, I know.
The other side of this is... what do you think you can do to make him understand how he is making you feel? Obviously other than telling him without guilt trips, yelling or crying.

This is one of the reasons men don't share their feelings. Women don't let anything go, they remember every slight, real and imagined, including feelings shared they don't want to hear.

I realize that's a broad brush and there are exceptions, BUT, I've seen it happen so much, to me and others, I firmly believe it.
I've had statements I supposedly made, quoted to me out of context, 22 fucking years later.:smack:

Those are all bound up together. If communication is successful, courtesy and caring follow--and vice versa; you have to care to want to communicate.

Oh, the other possible outcome of sucessful communication is homicde. Biut that's rarer :-).

I agree with bruce, that is one problem I have had often... things thrown at me that I had completely forgotten had even happened.

Maybe it's his job that's the problem? He sounds like his job has him waaay too high-strung, he needs to mellow ouuuutttt...

Not much consolation to the homicidee. :lol:

My wife knows better... I refuse to let those bother me.
Once an apology has been accepted, the deed is dead, period, end of story.
If someone throws something up in my face that they have accepted an apology for it is a game and is to be treated as such, nothing more.

Also, I said something earlier "how he makes you feel"... that is a figure of speech.
No one can "make" anyone feel anything, ever.
How one chooses to accept/take something dictates how they feel about what is said. It is choice, always.

I don't agree at all, one can communicate screw-you my slave perfectly successfully, and that seems to be going on.

And what if you haven't apologized because you didn't even know it happened?
They remember every slight, real and imagined, and don't always say something at the time, but quietly slide it into their quiver. ;)

Very poetic...

Just a quick question here - Why can't women hear what we actually say instead of what they think we said? I hate to be chauvinistic, and maybe its cause I've only had realationships with women since I'm straight, but it really bugs me when I say one thing and something completely different is heard.
Is it me, women, SO's in general or what?

What we desired from a man:


*
I wanted to be cherished and adored.

*
I wanted to feel his strength and masculinity.

*
I wanted a great lover who loves to please me.

*
I wanted to feel respected.

*
I wanted to be gathered up in his strong arms.

*
I wanted him to tell me what he's feeling.

*
I wanted him to feel like I'm the best thing in his life.

*
I wanted him to love me with all his heart.


I just watched Brokeback Mountain and found it interesting. Didn't find any solutions. They acted like a normal hetro couple....same problems. LOL

It's like getting a dog or goldfish. You know what they can and cannot do. A man seems fairly limited, not as much as a goldfish maybe....but still....
Actually they may be more like a cat than a dog even.....aloof, never owned, taking what they need and not offering a lot in return.

NO, NOT EVERY MAN!!! I KNOW....I KNOW......

LOL

I believe they are only truly happy when out with guys doing guy stuff.

The rest is just a necessary evil to them, with maid service.

I apologize to any man here who is a loving, giving man.....very few and far between. JMHO.

Then it's not my problem.

I wanted to feel his strength and masculinity.

You wanted the romance novel man, but when he acted like a real man you ridiculed him and emasculated him.

Man, I cannot tell you how many times I have said "... but what did I actually say? Because, what I actually said is what I mean, always. Putting words in my mouth pisses-me-OFF!" Does she hear it? What do you think?
I communicate and tell exactly how I feel... having it complicated and twisted is a game to me.
What I say is what I mean.
If I am going to lie, I would do it anyway... acting like everything I say is a lie is not going to trick it out of me. It is just going to make me not trust you & not want to say a damn thing to you, ever.
As for my wife, she has actually gotten a lot better recently... it has taken a long time. She still lapses though. If you don't trust him, why be with him? Don't get it.

I know for me, the reason that this happens is that I HATE confrontations. I try to have everyone like me, so if I am upset, I might just let it slide. Lately, I have been trying to let people know when they upset me - especially my BF. I think that the reason that things are brought up out of the blue is because even if you don't say anything, you might still think about it - especially if it is done over and over until you just can't take it anymore.

(That is probably just me though)

Then it does not slide... it lies in wait.

Yes. I did that with my last relationship. He took the brunt of my frustration with men, and I took the brunt of his frustration with women and life. He told me so.

Now we are both apart and too stubborn to make the move. So we will never meet again.

This one was for the gipper, I guess. We both have tried so hard with others, you just have to smash the glass sometimes and suffer the consequences.

He is on my mind every day. But he is the toughest son of a b*tch I've ever met and I'm not sure where his head is at these days.....I know he refuses to take his anti-depressents and it shows.

But you try to play it their way.....meet them in the ring....go a few rounds with them without being knocked out.....they get mad.

Then it's over.

You have to be the weak one, the fool. Then they have won. But once they win, they lose interest.

So what does a woman do with a strong macho man? I prefer them to others.....not a true bad boy, but a real man.

I do love men.

It seems it's a fool's game.

For now, I'm on the bench.

LOL

:-(

LOL

:-(


Golden.....I commisserate with you. I commisserate with him. There are 2 sides to every story. We just don't know how to play nicely together. Damn!

Man, I've just decided "If y'can't beat 'em join 'em". I'm just as bad (or just as good at, depending on how you look at it) as my girlfriend at that whole twisting words thing and stuff. Its kinda funny that I act more like a girl than a guy when it comes to relationships, sometimes. I'm still whipped like you would not believe, though...

I always said this: put estrogen in the water supply along with the flouride; soften up the men, stop wars.....if they grow breasts so be it, they can play with them.

:rotflol:

lol

What did he want? :litebulb:

She has to be willing not to be let in.
Basically it is a relationship with a stranger.