Mormon Madness
 

Republican Senator George Smith is on the talk circuit promoting a book about his son Garrett's suicide. He and his wife were on BookSPAN last week. I was trying to follow the chronology of Garrett's demise, when his father said something that made a light go off in my head. After a college roomate of Garrett told the parents he was worried about their son, they went to visit him. He had gained weight, not shaven for weeks, and, according to his parents, he had "let himself go." His parents wanted to help, so they said they could all take a vacation together. Where did Garrett want to go for a break? Back to England, WHERE HE DID HIS PRESCRIBED 2-YEAR MISSION WORK AS A MORMON!

I told myself I shouldn't jump to conclusions, so i did a little research on The Internets. Holy Tabernacle Choir!! I had no idea that there was such a large Mormon Recovery Movement (MRM); and suicide within the Mormon Church is a major issue for both the Mormans and their critics. As it turns out, Post-Mormon Mission Trip Suicide Syndrome (PMMTSS) is a well-documented reality, and this now-dead Garrett kid may well have been a recent casulty.

What really gets me steamed is that this fucking Senator NEVER even mentioned how his son's relationship to the Mormon religion, a religion that was foisted upon him as a young adopted kid, might have played a role in his suicide. No, for him it was all about "depression," and how parents had to watch out for the "signs" of the same. Hey, I get depressed all the time. This world is depressing. But give a kid the burden of Mormon exceptionalism, then send him to England to recruit more Mormons, you run the risk of creating a conflicted kid. The guilt and shame that come from merely questioning your Mormon faith well-documented.

The mormons are coming from a somewhat restricted gene pool, particularly in Utah. Original families tend to marry into original families. There may, because of this, be a higher tendency toward depression. just like the Amish trend for Bipolar Disorder. People who get depressed sometimes kill themselves.

Being LDS is probably only a very minor factor in any of these suicides.

Genetics or Environment?
 

I will agree and disagree. A congenital/genetic predisposition to depression does not rule out LDS culture as an equal, if not greater, factor for the higher rates of suicide. I only say this because I spent some time reading the strings on postmormon.org. and some other "Recovering Mormon" sites. Many former Mormons go into great detail about the pressure to conform and the shame that is thrust upon them when they're mission work is not sucessful or, ironically, how they yearned for the freedom they no longer have on their return. So many of these folks pointed to the Mormon culture as being the cause for depression.

That said, I am a determinist who considers both the genetic and evironmental factors, so genetic/enviro causality is probably at work here.

Since the kid was adopted, we don't know if he came from an inbred society or not. :confused:

Oh shit, I forgot about that. Adoptees have their own special baggage too.

Just as a genetic asside, there was "race" of strange people in Appalachia (KY/TN border) whose skin was so pale and so thin that all their veins were visible. They were known as "The Blue People."

EEYEEM Shure EYE ave new idea what yer takin aboot.

The last time we tried to discuss this dangerous cult, which has swallowed up members of my family, it seems we offended somebody who is not Mormon but has no choice about living in the middle of their stronghold. So I'm not sure we ought to go into it again. But, oh well...

Suicide and divorce are epidemic within the Mormon Church, and like everything else about this religion, they try to sweep it under the rug when a flaw is exposed. Not only because it is bad publicity for their recruiting, but because the way they retain these people in the fold is by making sure they never have access to anything except approved and official explanations.

The reason that this kid did away with himself after his Mission is very simple if you know how those work. I have copies of the instructions these kids get when they are sent to faraway places to make converts. They are rated on their success in signing up new members over this period, which can affects the prestige of their family and their own standing in the local Temple or Stake, and subsequently could cause employers or the fathers of potential brides to accept them readily or reject them. So they actually have a lot riding on this Mission, whether they admit it or not.

If they do not rake in the converts, or worse still, if they run into somebody who defies them and confounds them at every turn in a "preach-off", these kids have been known to go into massive depressions. (BTW, only men are sent on Missions, women only recently were thrown a bone by being allowed to participate in other missionary activities; they are not potential Gods like their male bretheren may aspire to be.) Because these boys are working from a prepared plan and because they are told that anybody who rejects the word of their Church is on the side of the Devil anyway and is beyond salvation, it is hard for them to understand how they can be blocked at every turn. It is actually very easy to shoot down Mormon arguments because their mythology is so bogus, and the Catholic Church has even printed a pamphlet on how to answer their statements, which I have. After running into enough of these brick walls, the "faith" of a Mormon missionary is sometimes shaken to the bone. The Mormons are not stupid people, quite the opposite, and when they begin to ask questions or to seek clarifications, they discover that there ARE no answers, there ARE no clarifications, and the elders of the Church will turn on them for questioning rather than to provide the information which these kids want in order to understand their failures. You have to understand that the indoctrination by the Mormon Church begins in the cradle and goes beyond the grave, and you are not allowed to investigate any other explanations except those already approved. When you are assured that you know the one true way and somebody gets to take a shot at your bubble and consistently breaks it, it is the end of your world. A Mission can be the end of your faith, and because you have no other reason to live, you take your life.

There is nothing more terrifying to a practicing Mormon than to feel estranged from his group. The suicide epidemic among their youth is not the result of inbred weakness, because the Mormons have also saturated Idaho, California, Nevada, Arizona, and many other locations. They are growing faster than any other mainstream church. They are not just huddling in a fortress in Utah anymore. But as a community, they still judge the members whom they consider to be failures or not of perfect faith very harshly. It is too much for many people to endure. Especially kids, who have enough problems knowing who they are without being told that they have somehow failed their family and failed God.

Wow. That explains why they always seem so glum walking around this area of California. I can only assume their mission is not going well.

I think Tochi speaks from experience. It's scary how culture can mold a kid's mind. I knew that Senator was in denial; probably protecting himself from the horror that he played a big role in his son's death. "The horror. The horror."

Tonchi. Tonchi. Tonchi.

No she's not. :p

Well, here's something to add to the discussion. Just remember that this has nothing to do with LDS, since this a sect.

If anything, it's probably an embarrassment to the LDS. Sort of like how the Catholic Church would feel if someone started a sect based on 1st century Christian beliefs. Which might be an improvement, actually.

Wow, a hundred grand. I wonder if any of his followers will be tempted?

What, risk the collapse of the Polygamist faction and give up their place in heaven for a $100k? Nah.
Well, one of the slaves,...er ...um...women might.;)

You get your own planet when you die, and you get to decide if your wimmin gets to go or not. Where do I sign up?

meh. can you imagine being in charge of a whole planet? I hope I just get a few acres in heaven, and a riding lawnmower.

No rational concept of heaven includes grass that requires mowing.

I'll bet the lawnmower is to race with or tool around town (although a golf cart would be a bit more comfy, not to mention stylish).

cookied

:lol:

I was always taught that the Mormon's were a CULT so this doesn't surprise me in the least. After all, Marie Osmond was bummed out, wasn't she? And, what the HELL does Marie Osmond have to be bummed out about? I think any religion that breeds it's women like puppy mills will pretty much reap what it sows. Women aren't meant to be bred like animals. It makes them nuts and then the kids are nuts and the men are tribal and unyielding. Where's the Higher Consciousness? Where's the LOVE?

The whole Mormon premise is pretty damn interesting, though. Joseph Smith must have had balls of steel to tell that story with a straight face. L. Ron Hubbard WAS right. You want money and power? Start a religion.

Nope, it doesn't work that way. You might have to wait millenia while you and your "family" get cycled and recycled through life and heaven until you reach a state of purification that qualifies you to become a God of your own UNIVERSE. Like you and Mrs. God preside over exactly the same setup as we are living in today, having physical intercourse to engender the souls who will be sent to YOUR planets in the bodies which YOU created. Mrs. God is the same woman you are married to when you are "sealed for all eternity" in the Temple ceremony, so pick a good one because you are stuck with her forever and beyond.

Probably the most controversial tenet of the Mormons is they teach that God was once a human, just like the rest of us, before he attained his present status. Naturally this is used as a recruiting incentive, but only for MEN. Women can't become gods under any circumstances, which has more than a few worthy Mormon women frosted. But if they speak out about it, they get excommunicated. It's not a good idea to have any doubts if you plan on staying Mormon.

What the...
 

Well. That's some crazy shite, that Mormonism. And they say it's a growing religion? That's hard to fathom, what with all that crazy doctrine. What sane person would actually "choose" to join?

Goodness.

They do a lot of the bribe-style recruiting. They set up extremely nice facilities in extremely poor areas, and then only let Mormons use them.

And on the surface, they have a very appealing whitebread sort of June Cleaverness that attracts (white) families with kids. And they always have the prettiest churches in town. Their supposed belief in the bible (as seen on TV commercials) draws Christians who haven't really studied the tenets of their own faith and don't realize what a contradiction Mormonism and Christianity are.

It's kind of like going to a car dealership and buying a Dodge Ram, only to find that, although the bodywork looks identical, there's a lawnmower engine under the hood. That runs on dead puppies. From space.

I lost my metaphor at some point.

And as soon as you get in and shut the door, the locks snap shut.

...and puppies are 3 fity a gallon.

...and the only person who has ever actually driven a pickup like that is a former mental patient who claims that he has special goggles that give him the unique ability to operate such a thing. And no witnesses ever saw him do it. Yet they sell trucks and puppies by the ton.



:guinea:

So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows what I can do right now
I'm praying for the end of time
It's all that I can do
Praying for the end of time, so I can end my time with you!!!

Now I want a meatloaf sandwich with BBQ sauce and tomato... thanks a lot.

Might?

The Catholics were never so Pagan as when they first got started. It was 1,000 years later when they started getting *really* difficult to deal with.

Joseph Smith was just a horny bugger with a novel way of getting laid by a lot of different women. My hat's off to him. But I'm keeping my pants on...and my wallet in my pocket.

Well, maybe formerly living grass that doesn't really mind being mowed. :3eye: This, I think, is more benevolent than the idea that lawnmower heaven is grassy hell.

It is very well disguised as Christianity, with a few quirks (HOLY UNDERWEAR?) but on the inside, it is quite different.

The Mormon idea of Heaven is eternal burning (a little mixed up?), where men are gods, and women become goddesses that eternally give birth to 'spirit children'. Sound warped enough yet?

Also, black people can't enjoy the 'rewards' in 'Heaven'. They apparently didn't do well enough in their 'past life'.

(Adapted from "The Mormon Church Expose")

HUH???

Mormonism is Scientology + 100 years.

Actually, it was not until very recently that the Mormons started pitching themselves as "another Christian Church". As with every single other doctrine they have nowdays, they spun their reality for personal gain. It was to pursue a tax-exempt status with the federal government that they suddenly began trumpeting themselves as Christians, and pushed the idea with the advertising campaign that you probably have heard: "The Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ". Like pork is the other white meat, y'know?

Blacks and Native Americans were not so much unable to go to heaven, they could but they would have to recycle a particularly long time in order to turn them white so that they could attain perfection and move on. The issue was more that they refused to grant Blacks or Native Americans the PRIESTHOOD. Conveniently, their highest authority received a "revelation" from God that it was OK to let those inferior beings do that now. Conveniently at the time where the feds informed them that integration was in and discrimination was out if they wanted to continue to receive federal money for schools and highways in Utah. God came through in a timely manner again, just like he had about the polygamy doctrine after Utah had been rejected for statehood 3 times because their laws and court system did not conform to our national and constitutional requirements.

The Holy Undergarments idea was stolen from the Masonic Lodge rites, as were the symbols and passwords of the Curtain ritual they have. Women, so far, may NOT become goddesses. They can only be "Priestesses" to their men. But as I said before, it is believed that once the husband gets his own universe, Mrs. God and he continue to have physical sexual intercourse in order to produce the souls that will populate the new kingdom. No clarifications yet as to whether Mrs. God is allowed to "have a headache" or not be in the mood :D

I want to ask a question about Mormons,which may seem flippant and I'm not out to offend anyone if you are into religion whatever floats yer boat..Here goes..Why are mormon missionaries so shiny?..
We had two the other day at the door and I have never seen such a well polished couple of guys.
Black suits,white shirts right off the set of MIB..but their faces with such a sheen..Jehovah Witnesses are never like that so drab compared to Mormons..Is it something they do to them in Utah before they ship them overseas..very curious. :D

There's just so much pressure to be all... all perfect in Mormon society.

Something to do with being filled with the energy of the prophetic vision of the Angel Moroni.

Either that or carrying the gene for Bipolar Disorder with Psychosis that was very prevalent in the earliest bloodlines in LDS.

Is this documented anywhere?

Check the first chapter of the book of Mormon. That should clear it up.

It had to happen. The Mormons have been prowling around here for the past month. Today their conversion quest was not going well (hello, everybody is at work!) and they spotted me outside watering plants.

Basic premise was that even though I didn't believe in god if I'd prayed I was sure to feel something, they weren't trying to convert me, and when I asked if they would explain how they got to live on another planet with jesus once they died the poor guy floundered more or less. Lots of dancing around and explanations like "It's hard to explain" (why is one always silent?) and "It's compilicated" sprang forth. Almost felt sorry for them and never even got to ask them about Joseph Smith trying to read egyptian scrolls.

I think they were chosen for CA because they could speak Spanish as they specifically asked (as another pair asked in a previous year) if I knew anybody around who spoke Spanish.

My 76 year-old father was nearly converted due to the fact that they sent out three cutesy young ladies with gleeming smiles and long, dark hair to recruit him. He kept basking in their wholesome sexuality, visit after visit as they smiled and laughed and tried really, really hard to get him to sign on the dotted line. My mom, the Catholic with the twelve shrines to Mary in her home, finally had enough and was 'rude' (dad's word) to the girls and threw them out. See? Sex really does sell.

They never tried such recruiting tactics with me. (Wait, what if they had sent redheads?? ;) )

Apparently not! They didn't close the deal. Maybe if they had sent along a nice clean-cut young man or two to charm your mom while the succubi, errr, women, were talking to your dad they might have done better.

Damnit, why can't they send succubi to me? I'd at least consider converting as long as said succubi were betrothed to me.

I get plenty of succubi(s), I want something while I'm awake. :lol:

Why? Won't you just fall asleep afterward anyway? Succubi are easier to come by (pun intended) and they save time.

Holy Mormonism! This string got longer than I ever imagined. Pretty amazing observations and good humor.

Hey Brianna, my mom sounds just like yours! Loves the Virgin Mary sooooooooooo much. She's a Fatamist at heart.

As I said, memere has several shrines to 'the Virgin'---best is a three dimensional wall hanging of Mary avec l'enfant in the living room. My sis stenciled ivy around this icon. she also boasts numerous Mary pendants that she wears with alternating pink, lavendar and blue turtle neck sweaters.

My mom (who is named Mary) has a big VM statue planted on the front lawn of the house where I grew up. She also posts all sorts of crazy stuff around the house like a photocopy of that Shroud of Tourin; I keep telling her that even the Vatican said that was a fraud, but she won't listen.

my mom says praying to god is a waste of time as he is too busy running the universe. She always says, /*cue Ultra-Pious Look*/, "I think Jesus(nee God) is too busy running the world for my little problems, but, I think His mother listens." and then she furiously rubs her rosary beads. Is is any wonder I worship the Goddess?

Are there any other religions (xian or otherwise) that promote the open display of gaudy statues and religious symbols? I mean you never see a satanist proudly displaying a 5" diameter encircled pentacle crafted out of solid gold. It's time that changed.

:eek: Now I want one!:eek:

Biblically, we are here to do what we do... an interventionist God goes against the bible as written, New Testament. We have free will (Job must be excluded because it was written-in by church fathers), Christians.
So, we are responsible for dealing with what happens to us.
However, healing and miracles are within us to do if we have enough faith, that is not God coming down that is us tapping into our own divine nature...
But, it is much easier to believe in SantaGod, so most do.
The Est version is scary for most.

Clearly you've never been to a pagan festival ... while they are not satanists, many of the younger folk are very into being in-your-face-out-of-the-broomcloset-hey-look-at-me-I'm-a-motherfucking-pagan, and they have either large amounts of silver witchy jewelry or visible tattoos proclaiming the same.

You got me, never been to an actual fest. Now I know where to look...

...and you've obviously never been to a hindu temple.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a_Balarama.jpg

Every Thai or Vietnamese place of business around here has a little shrine area. They always look incredibly cheesy although I know they don't MEAN to look cheesy. They just DO.

I bet the Mormons can't wait for this musical to come out!

I know I can't!

Having lived in Utah for 22 years, and being raised Mormon, I gotta throw my two cents in.
Wolf- That's interesting, and the inbred thing might work for some of the bloodlines that were in the original mess of pioneers, but out of the 1 million Mormons living in Utah, very very few are descended from that stock. Trust me, geneaology is huge there, and out of all the Mormons you might meet, you'll probably never meet one descended from a polygamist.

Believe it or not, the Mormon religion is one of the fastest growing religions on the planet- it's usually in the top three, I think. I've heard that most of the converts are in Latin/South America, but cant' say for sure.

Joseph Smith may have been a fraud, but he wasn't your typical con man. The guy had some serious potential, power-wise and politically- shortly before his death he had declared his candidacy for president. Yes, the U.S. presidency. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica (ok, not the best reference, but I'm limited on resources here, my net is slow) he was regarded as having the potential to win. His business rep and charisma were that great. I'm thinking Bill Clinton Circa 1840 or so.
Also, I'm sure most of you haven't heard about any of them, but Mormon conspiracy theories abound in Utah. Some have truth, others are outright lies, but of course the best ones are always the ones that could be true. (Like the one about the Mormons possessing the largest private army in the world).
One of the more interesting things about Smith is his tie to the Freemasons. He did belong, that much is known. (although the Church denies it, I think). The rumors are: he used elements of the highest, most secret mason rituals in his creation of the higher sacred Mormon rituals; he rose to the highest degree possible faster than anyone ever has; that his last words were the beginning of a coded mason cry for help; that the masons were so offended by his creation of a bogus religion that they booted him, and so on and so forth. I'm sure there's a few I haven't heard. Aleister Crowley was either a madman or a genius depending on who you are, but if I remember right he claimed that Smith had true knowledge and used it to deceive people for his own purposes.

Lastly, if you join the freemasons, the church will excommunicate you in a heartbeat. For God's sake, you can kill someone and not get excommunicated. I've also heard that if you're on the Mormon baptism roles, you cannot join a masonic lodge in Utah.

Ok, so there's not much in there about the modern day church. I have a tendency to ramble. Anyways. I haven't been to church in a long time, and I have no interest in going back. As I've warned cellarites before, though, I am creating my own: the Freemormons. "You can join now or join later, but you will join." :3eye: Submit.

My brother saw that when he was down there (I forget which country). One thing they do is build extremely nice recreational facilities in extremely poor areas, and the entry fee is conversion.