Apple OSx to a Windows XP printer
 

I only had a short time to look at this. The configuration is an Apple with OSX connected by ethernet to a Windows XP with an HP printer. Both computers have the HP drivers for that printer loaded. Both computes see each other. The Apple can see that the Windows XP has an HP printer. But when printing apparently using SAMBA) to that HP printer, the printer appears to output what looks like Postscript commands rather than the document.

What should I be looking for? Need I make some special change to the Windows XP list of network functions? Or is there some (secret) function on the Apple that must be enabled?

I only get to visit this configuration maybe once a month. Doing research in advance would be helpful. Any location that discusses the underlying details of how this configuration works and is suppose to work?

On a extremely tangentally related note, my Deskjet 812C can't print in color on XP, but the same printer, hardware, and cable can print in color when I boot to Win98. If someone has any spare time after fixing tw's problem...

switch the two around :)
 

TW,

I just got back from a customer's house on the main line who had this issue.

Mac OS X has CUPS. Grab 1.2rc1 from www.cups.org, install on the Mac, and share out the printer from there.

Set up the shared printer as an Apple Color Laserwriter 12/600 on the XP box.

You will then have happy printer sharing.

And in case y'all are wondering, I did this on an Intel-based iMac Core Duo, so I know it will work with both Intel and PPC-based macs.

Mitch

Good grief - a question with XP, OSX, HP, networking and printing all in the same question and mbpark STILL knows the answer. There is no stumping this guy.

A bud lite and a round of polite golf clap for mbpark.:beer:

I am trying to understand what was happening here AND how using Unix printing solves the problem. CUPL apparently prints using Unix Printing format (that is not defined).

To step back - document to be printed is on an Apple OSx machine. An HP printer driver is loaded onto that Apple. HP Deskjet printers don't use postscript; they use PCL. Apple uses Samba (SMB) network protocol to transmit printer information from Apple's document to a Windows 2000 machine and its HP Deskjet printer. Why would the HP driver on Apple send that information to the XP in Postscript when neither the HP driver nor the HP printer understands postscript?

Normally a Windows program outputs its printer data in EPS. An HP printer driver would convert that EPS to PCL - what HP printers understand. Maybe the Windows 2000 machine expects printer data from SMB (network) to arrive already converted to PCL by that other (in this case Apple) computer. But the Apple does not do that. Apple sends its screen data (in Postscript) directly into SMB network packets?

So CUPL converts that Apple screen (already in Postscript) to what? What is the language used by Unix printer drivers? If the Windows 2000 printer prints data directly from the SMB network, then why would CUPL on the Apple also not print directly to the Windows 2000 printer. Unfortuantely these technical documents like to short us on information - or I am missing something.

And finally, that Windows 2000 system prints from Windows 2000 programs using the HP driver. Therefore the same printer (I suspect) cannot also be driven by a Unix driver. But CUPL apparently needs a Unix printer driver assigned to that HP Deskjet printer. How do I get around that? Or can multiple drivers be assigned to the same printer - I did not think so?

What I think I need is some way for the Apple to talk (using SMB on network) to an HP driver on the Windows 2000 machine, OR for the Apple to output PCL directly to the Windows 2000 Deskjet printer. I thought that second option was what I was doing when I loaded the HP Deskjet printer driver on Apple OSX. I think. Where does all the above go right or wrong?

Unfortuately the computers and network are not readily available to play with AND I have limited time on site to solve this Windows/Apple printer sharing. BTW Windows 2000 programs also must talk to an Epson printer on the Apple - a problem I have avoided because printing in that direction apparently is even more complex. Currently I am only trying to solve Apple printing to an HP Deskjet on a Windows 2000 machine using an existing and apparently working SMB network communication.

Where does all the above go wrong?

There are two issues here:
 

TW,

#1. Did you get the drivers from the HP site? I've had OS X outputting to PCL printers before with no issues (specifically with high-end printer/copiers) with no issues. I've also done the direct printing from OS X to an HP printer with a JetDirect card in it, and to a Lexmark with a network connection (I do use my Powerbook for work, and have had to print from it at two printers at a customer site).

#2. CUPS converts the printer data into PostScript and does a conversion from PostScript to the printer language used (EPS, PCL, etc).

#3. When I use CUPS from a Windows 2000 or XP machine, it uses something equivalent to IPP (Internet Printing Protocol), and assign it a Apple Laserwriter PS driver so it will print correctly. It also uses a URL to define the printer. Yes, you can use multiple printer drivers for the same printer using this method, as XP or 2000 will think they're different printers.

#4. CUPS can support multiple printers on the Apple. There's no problem in that direction. It will work extremely well for this. Just remember to set all your printers to be Apple LaserWriters, and you're set.

Thanks,

Mitch

Senor Simian:

Short answer: Delete the printer and reinstall it. Long expression of same answer follows below.

Based on what you've explained, I will presume that the printer's ok, the color ink's ok, the cable and port are all ok. The difference is the OS, and the printing part of the OS is the printer driver. The one you've got is hosed, and a new one should help. (Although, I seem to remember the option in the advanced tab of the printer's properties to print in grayscale. Properties--General--Printing Preferences...--Paper/Quality--Black & White. Choose Color. That's worth checking first, and disabling if enabled).

My first efforts would be to replace/reinstall the printer driver. The most thorough way to do this for XP (and many HP printing stuff) is to use the uninstall program that comes with the printer. Although, the HP DeskJet 812C is "merely" a printer, and not a multifunction machine, and would therefore require less of an installation production. Still, look for any HP uninstall software, use it. If there are any other HP products involved (scanning software, HP director, fax manager, etc) they could well be involved in the problem. Sometimes the uninstall goes badly and leaves the system only partly uninstalled. In these cases, it is necessary to use a program from HP to uninstall the offending software. The tools to do this are specific to the software being uninstalled, which is dependent on what hardware is being supported on the computer.

Back to the point...the goal is to have a *clean* system, and a *clean* (re)installation of the printer driver. One major aspect of having a clean system is to have the Windows/Microsoft Updates current on your machine. Assuming this is the case, then I would go to the My Computer icon/item, expand it, (I like using Windows Explorer to navigate there) find Control Panel--Printers and Faxes. When you choose Printers and Faxes, the right side of the screen will show your installed printers. Right click on the offending printer icon/entry and choose Delete. Follow the prompts (yes, (I think) you do want to delete the printer)), until you're back at the Explorer screen.

Now you want to re-add the printer. Right click on the white space on the right pane and choose Add Printer. During the reinstallation process, all the defaults are acceptable, but may need to be changed for your situation (port LPT1: vs. USB, default printer, etc). A key test will be the Print a Test Page. The Windows logo should print in color.

Try it out, I'm interested to hear the results.

Thanks. It is in B&W mode, but that's because color mode causes it to print gibberish. ;)

I've uninstalled/reinstalled the printer many times. The HP software was never on the system, IIRC, it has always been using the XP supplied driver.

Does the Properties--Advanced--Driver dialog show HP DeskJet 812C, like this?

cause that's gonna be *key* to getting it to print right... Still sounds like a driver issue. btw, parallel, usb, serial, what?

Indeed, the HP site says this driver is supplied by MS XP. Maybe I could scare one up explicitly, but *coughcoughc* it should work.

Yeah, it's using the right drivers. It's parallel. I'm sorta resigned to monochrome until it dies.

Hey, it's HP. It's gotta die some time.

But it doesn't have to die before you do.

My professional interest is piqued. Are you interested in pursuing this further? I believe there is a solution, short of the printer being replaced.

Sure. I've got nothing to lose...

Is it possible to get some clarification?
 

Hello,

I have been trying for a couple hours now to get my macbook to print to an hp photosmart 2610 which is hooked to an xp machine. I cam upon this discussion, but I don't really understand what tw's instructions are.

I would install cups on my intel mac, then set up my hp as an Apple Color Laserwriter 12/600?

Could someone explain this a little more? I am not quite sure how to do this. (although I already installed cups1.2.1)

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Welcome to the Cellar. You might not get an answer right away, but somebody is bound to stop by with some advice.

CUPS
 

In your case with the MacBook, you just have to make sure that you're sharing the printer, and then add it as a SMB printer.

Adding it via CUPS also works, as CUPS is already installed and working.

Mitch

I set this up once for my Mom. However, I don't remember the exact steps. Set up your mac networking to add in the SMB protocol. I don't remember if that's all you have to do but you should then be able to 'see' the printer attached to the xp.

I have not gone back to that site to try what mbpark described. However that Mac OSx also required years of software updates. Don't know if that also was complicating my solution. But I have almost no time to access a machine that is too many miles away. Any further details on the subject would be appreciated - especially that include what type of networking messages are exchanged by both computers using IP protocols to make printer sharing work.

TW, what model HP printer is it?

If I go into the printer utility and add a printer, I can browse to find the printer on the xp machine. It does print, but it spits out some cryptic info and starts spitting out as many blank pages as it can.

The printer is an hp photosmart 2610. One of the problems could be that this printer is not in the dropdown list when adding a new printer. Maybe a postscript problem?

This is not a postscript printer, so this cannot be a postscript problem. The 2610 only understands PCL.

First check and make sure you can print to the printer from the pc. Then make sure you have the driver for this printer installed on your mac. The hp site has drivers for osx. Make sure you have talking to Windows networks (SMB) enabled on the mac. You should be able target this printer using the 2610 printer driver and be able to print. I did this just once on my Mom's mac and pc. So my memory about the specifics is vague.

tw,

You can download CUPS binaries from http://www.cups.org. I'm using a compiled version of CUPS 2.0 to support printing from an XP Pro laptop to an Intel iMac. You can download binaries of this as a .DMG for any version of OS X.

The reason PostScript comes up is because CUPS shares out the printer from OS X as a PostScript printer and does the PS to machine-specific (PCL, PS, whatever else) translation on the server-side. Pretty neat :).

However, the dead-simple solution is to add the printer as an SMB printer. The only problem is that the Intel Macs don't have good printer driver support yet, and you may have significant issues if HP doesn't have a driver.

I had this happen with the Intel iMac customer who had an old Photosmart that he had to ditch because the OS X printer drivers contain kernel modules. Rosetta doesn't translate them well :(.

However, CUPS 2.0 may have extended driver support for that printer OS X doesn't and may be worth the download.

Mitch

Actually I cannot do that. Network is too many miles away. I have access maybe once every six months. And its dialup access.

jhogeterp - HP ink jet printer (which is therefore HP PCL) on Windows XP was connected to the Mac OSx machine via network using SMB. The same HP CD-Rom loaded HP's driver for that HP printer on the Mac. Mac sees and identifies that HP printer on Windows XP. And yet still, the Mac printed Postscript code to that HP printer. The Mac talked to what it knew to be an HP printer and sent Postscript to it using HP's own drivers. The printer, not knowing Postscript, then printed that Postscript commands as if ASCII - tens of pages of Postscript.

Well, the owner (because he often forgets the difference between login name and password) has years of Apple software upgrades to download - using dialup. Therefore I don't know if SMB will not work only because older Mac OSx software could not talk correctly to Windows. But then I get two hours (not even enough time to download any Mac updates) and don't always get correct passwords. Just another reason why I need descriptions of IP packets during printer access to even know that Cups works on Mac.

I can report the Mac saw an HP Inkjet printer, had HP drivers directly from HP's CD-Rom, was connected using SMB, and still sent Postscript to that HP printer.

Would love to learn what finally makes it work and how to learn to do it with less than two hours (both machines in different rooms).

It finally just worked. I don't know what I did differently, but it works now. I just went into add printer and chose the network and the pc ont he network and chose the gimp hp 1100 option. This didn't work before, but it does now! Thanks for everyone's help!

It may have ahd something to do with starting printing software under rosetta by default. That seems to be the only thing that is different.

tw,

the mac has a CD, no? You can burn it to CD :).

Yes, but I would have first liked to have the OSx properly updated. A quick summary suggested it needed (on dialup) maybe 5 hours of downloading.

I will bring that Cups binary on a CD. Also get a latest HP printer driver from HP web site just in case that HP driver for Mac was problematic. But again, I do all this because I only get about two hours - and the two computers are in different rooms. Also I will not be attempting this maybe after summer is over. For now, I am still in data collection mode.

jhogeterp - did you do this with Cups - or just use what exists in OSX? Did you upgrade the OSX software and then fully reboot - and suddenly it started working?

Anyway, I am still confused why a Mac, talking to Windows XP on SMB (network), saw that HP printer, had HP drivers, and still tried to print Postscript to that HP printer. TV commercials says those two guys talk to one another - like North Korea and George Jr?

Maybe when jhogeterp rebooted, the computer did a new browser reelection - and voted in a new OSX? Sounds too political.

Just wish I had a local setup to learn with. But then I do this stuff too infrequently to justify the hardware.

tw,

you can also get a "Full Update" from the Apple site and bring that with you :).

Mitch

Well I finally got back to that Mac with OSX. Documentation from the web (including Apple's) had me so confused.

OSX was released as version 10.1.x. A later release called version 10.2.x was called jaguar. Version 10.3.x called Panther. Version 10.4.x called Tiger.

This OSX computer was Panther. But the many functions said to be in Panther do not exist without later updates. IOW CUPS and GIMP to permit MAC to talk via Samba requires later updates. Unfortunately, none of this is documented. Documentation instead leads one to believe Samba was provided in all upgrades of OSX 10.3.x.

Well the OSX based Mac now sees Windows 2000 based printers and no longer outputs Postscript to a printer that only understands HP DeskJet language (forgot that name - its not HPGL). Mac now prints just fine on PC base printers.

Meanwhile, MAC will now show its printer to Windows machines, but no longer permit printing from Windows.

What new little secret am I missing in OSX. Before upgrading Panther to version 10.3.9, a Windows machine could print to that MAC.

Meanwhile, MAC can see Windows directories (now called folders). But I only want it to see and access one particular folder? IOW I want to put a folder on the MAC desktop that is a subdirectory of 'My Documents' . Is it possible to preset a Panther MAC to default to one Windows data directory? Currently, a Mac user must thumb through various directories to get to that subdirectory - too complex. How does a MAC get preset to access a default directory? I suspect that is not possible which is why I read references to a software package called SharePoint.

Two questions - why does Windows now see Mac printers but cannot print to them since the software updates? How does a Panther Mac default to a Windows sub-directory instead of defaulting to Windows computer?

Alternative question - was Panther always this problematic - have so many secret networking inconsistencies?

Yes it was. Tiger fixed a LOT of printing issues.

You need to configure CUPS to allow printer sharing from that, and then use IPP (Internet Printing Protocol) to connect to the printer at http://<ip address>:631, but as an Apple Laser Printer so you can print PostScript. At least that's what I found with someone who utilizes his ThinkPad T42 at home to print to a Canon i9900 attached to his iMac (Intel Core Duo processor).

To get to a specific folder, you need go to Connect To Server, and specify: smb://<Computer name>/<Share Name>/<Subdirectory>

When Apple printed to Windows HP Deskjet, (non-upgraded Panther OSX), it reported a connection to the printer and then output postscript codes on that Deskjet.

In this case, Windows did not report a connection to a Cannon printer that it can see. No data (postscript or otherwise) was input to the printer. As best I can tell, printer data did not even beyond Apple printer server. Next trip, I intent to monitor data packets on the Ethernet cable. However I am totally confused why Windows can see Apple's Cannon, can report the state of that printer (connected or not connected), and yet not put any data into it.

Windows offers me two ways to access that Cannon. One is to make connection to the driver on OSX. Other is to load a Cannon driver on Windows and connect that driver to the Cannon. In the later case, even though it said it was connected to the Cannon, instead, it printed locally on the HP Deskjet. How's that for confusing. Using IPP to connect Windows to Apple's Cannon printer - a third option to try.

Meanwhile, I have maybe 120 Mb of security, iTunes, and Safari updates to load. Don't expect this to affect the printer subsystem. But again, this Windows to Apple's printer worked direct from Windows to Apple's Cannon - and then I upgraded to OSX 10.3.9.

Will try to change the command line for the Desktop icon to
smb://<Computer name>/<Share Name>/<Subdirectory>
to see Windows data from Apple's desktop. But I recall needed somewhere needed was the logon name and password in that script. Hope I did not lose that help note. To make it more complex, the Apple login name is not same as the name used on Windows. I also discovered the login name without a password is not acceptable to Apple. Another recent discovery.