The Cellar

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)
-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   You're Doing a Heck of Job Brownie (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=10069)

richlevy 02-11-2006 09:20 AM

You're Doing a Heck of Job Brownie
 
It appears that Michael Brown is tired of being a national scapegoat and is rolling on Bush and Chertoff. Maybe

Quote:

WASHINGTON - Former federal disaster chief Michael Brown, the face of the government's listless response to Hurricane Katrina, said Friday he told top Bush officials the day the storm howled ashore of massive flooding in New Orleans and warned "we were realizing our worst nightmare."

More defiant than defensive, Brown told senators he dealt directly with White House officials the day of the Aug. 29 storm, including chief of staff Andrew Card and deputy chief of staff Joe Hagin.

He also said the Homeland Security Department was among a half-dozen government agencies that received regular briefings that day from him and other officials by way of video conference calls. Administration officials have said they did not realize the severe damage Katrina had caused until after the storm had passed.

Under oath, Brown told the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee that he could not explain why his appeals failed to produce a faster response.
In related news, Karl Rove promised a focus on using national security as an election tool. He'd just better hope that the hearings are over by then.

xoxoxoBruce 02-11-2006 12:17 PM

Michael Brown was canned, why should he take the fall for them anymore. :confused:

Tonchi 02-11-2006 02:20 PM

Gee, poor Brownie is really pissed that after getting an undeserved political appointment in a field he knew nothing about with an overblown paycheck, they actually expected him to do something. Now he feels like it was unfair that the corrupt politicos who put him in that cushy chair won't let him keep the money while they should have done all the work. Hey, that's not how friends are supposed to treat friends! :rolleyes:

wolf 02-11-2006 03:31 PM

Law 26: Keep Your Hands Clean

You must seem a paragon of civility and efficiency: Your hands are never soiled by mistakes and nasty deeds. Maintain such a spotless appearance by using others as scapegoats and cat’s-paws to disguise your involvement.

tw 02-11-2006 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
Law 26: Keep Your Hands Clean

That is exactly what is happening here. It should have been obvious to everyone that this was going to happen when Karl Rove took over Katrina management about two weeks after the event.

Step one - blame Brownie. Put all failure upon him. A good soldier will take blame and lie down. Brownie has decided to stand up for himself.

If step one fails, then blame Chertoff. Nothing new here. This is what Richard Nixon did all through Watergate. Unfortunately, too many Republicans were more interested in the United States than loyal to the dictatorial president. It is why the Saturday Night Massacre occurred. It is why the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court wanted a court united in its vote - fearing that the long shot would be a coup d’etat.

This 'Brownie inquisition' is what happens when leadership demands loyalty above all else. Unlike in Watergate, there are too many partisan Republicans on that Senate Committee to do anything but hang Brownie in effigy. Brownie made too many mistakes - soiled himself too many times - to be defensible. It will take an Oliver North stand before Congress just to break even. Chertoff has little to worry about.

Meanwhile, most every FEMA senior manager has qualifications equivalent to Brownie's - political appointee without any experience or underlying training. As noted long ago, Wolf had better FEMA qualifications than Brownie or Chertoff.

wolf 02-11-2006 05:28 PM

Thanks for the vote of confidence, tw.

The responsibility for Katrina management needs to be at the local and state level. Everything else is just blame and fingerpointing. Everybody in emergency management/services knows this, but public perception is everything.

So, who do you think will get the rebuilding contracts for New Orleans? Ghirardelli, Godiva, or Herseys?

richlevy 02-11-2006 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
Thanks for the vote of confidence, tw.

The responsibility for Katrina management needs to be at the local and state level. Everything else is just blame and fingerpointing. Everybody in emergency management/services knows this, but public perception is everything.

So, who do you think will get the rebuilding contracts for New Orleans? Ghirardelli, Godiva, or Herseys?

I think having an entire city flood is beyond the responsibility of the city or state. It's why we have disaster declarations to begin with.

The situation was mismanaged from the city level, but part of that was because no additional support came in. How long are local police and rescue supposed to hold in a disaster like that 12 hours? 36? 72? How much worse would 9/11 been if the federal response waited for 3 days?

Clinton appointed one of the best FEMA directors ever. The governor of LA was smart enough to hire him last fall.

Quote:

Louisiana’s governor has hired James Lee Witt, the former director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in the Clinton administration, to help coordinate state and federal agencies managing the disaster-relief effort in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.
Quote:

As FEMA’s administrator in the 1990s, Witt was lauded for turning around what had been a moribund and ineffective government agency by responding quickly to the Mississippi floods in 1993, the Northridge earthquakes in 1994 and the TWA 800 crash in 1996. Clinton elevated FEMA to a Cabinet-level agency.
Even if Bush suddenly got an attack of intelligence and offered Witt the job as head of FEMA, he would probably turn him down. He's too smart to work for someone like Bush, recognizes the peril of working under Homeland Security, and realizes that being a cabinet level agency was part of what made FEMA effective. Also, having to watch out for a backstabbing move by Rove would interfere with the job.

In some ways Brown was perfect for the job because he was too stupid to see what pitfalls were and attempt to fix them before a disaster happened.

wolf 02-11-2006 08:12 PM

Having Witt as Louisiana's head of emergency management really made a difference for them, didn't it?

FEMA only comes when called. You don't call, they don't come.

You don't implement the emergency management plans that are recommended identifying deficits in your system, you tend to find out exactly how good those recommendations were in the first place, and how much you should have followed them.

As a result of the "Hurricane Pam" drills one year prior to Katrina, New Orleans knew exactly what would happen if a Cat-5 hit, and what they had to do about it.

None of it got done.

30 years worth of federal funding to improve the levees did everything except improve the levees.

You reap what you sow.

richlevy 02-11-2006 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
Having Witt as Louisiana's head of emergency management really made a difference for them, didn't it?

They hired him after Katrina. He's there to clean up the mess.

During Katrina FEMA was called. Gov Blanco did ask for help. I can't think of any state that could lose most of a major city and not need federal help.

xoxoxoBruce 02-11-2006 10:43 PM

I just occured to me that when they canned Brown he was probably prepared to take one for the team and be benched. But when he found out he wasn't allowed on the bench or even the locker room and he was out in the cold....a pariah....he got pissed and decided to lay it all out in his testimony.
Just a guess. :confused:

Beestie 02-12-2006 12:53 AM

Maybe I'm not very well informed about these things but I thought FEMA was a post-disaster agency.

How much blame shoud we assign to FEMA for the gross negligence of the local authorities? I'm not defending FEMA and think Brown's appt to head it up was a colossally stupid decision typical of Bush's appointees but why is FEMA being blamed at all? What was FEMA supposed to do that New Orleans couldn't do themselves?

This kind of situation is exactly why I advocate a smaller role for the Feds and a bigger role for the local governments. The local government sits on its thumbs as Katrina approached - they had 72 hours to prepare and they did virtually nothing. How is it then that a post-disaster agency 1,500 miles away is more to blame? Either I don't get it or this whole blame the Fed thing is just a way for NO to shift the spotlight off their own incompetence.

I wish I had someone to blame and someone to compensate me every time I make a stupid mistake. And I'm dead set against giving credence to platforms constructed on assumptions as transparent as the Emporor's new clothes. I don't recall FEMA doing anything different during hurricane Andrew or hurricane Iniki. I lived through Iniki. In Hawaii, there's nowhere to evacuate to - you just grit your teeth, hide under a mattress and pray. I at least had the sense to double-wrap my computer in Hefty sacs. I saw a video just yesterday of a NO house where the computer was covered in mud. What were these people doing before the storm hit???

The sad fact is that too many people in NO sat on their backside as the storm aproached because their leaders sat on theirs. Any responsible person would have gotten the hell out of dodge 48 hours before the storm hit. The most striking photo of the post Katrina damage was that parking lot full of busses in six feet of water.

That pic told the story in its entirety.

richlevy 02-12-2006 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie
Maybe I'm not very well informed about these things but I thought FEMA was a post-disaster agency.

Quote:

Federal Emergency Management AgencyAgency of the US government tasked with Disaster Mitigation, Preparedness, Response & Recovery planning.
FEMA is a soup-to-nuts agency. While it does not get involved with every landslide, it is supposed to handle the big disasters that cities and states can't handle alone.

I agree that in the first six hours the city should have had an effective evacuation plan. After that, it was FEMA's show. 4 days for food and water? Turning away corporate shipments of food and water?

Beestie 02-12-2006 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy
FEMA is a soup-to-nuts agency. While it does not get involved with every landslide, it is supposed to handle the big disasters that cities and states can't handle alone.

I agree that in the first six hours the city should have had an effective evacuation plan. After that, it was FEMA's show. 4 days for food and water? Turning away corporate shipments of food and water?

The first six hours? When a climatic meat grinder the size of Texas is heading in your general direction at speeds that would piss off an old lady driving to church on Sunday you have more than 6 hours notice.

I guess my point is that there is nothing that FEMA could have done in advance of the storm that NO could not have done and done better. FEMA would have had to start from scratch whereas NO knew everything and everyone they needed to know to empty the city. NO's failure was not due to a lack of resources and, in advance of a storm, resources are all FEMa can offer. And its not like FEMA knew something that NO didn't know - they were both looking at the same radar images.

FEMA's role, imho, didn't begin until the day after and I'm sure there is plenty of blame to go around regarding its completely disorganized and bumbling response. But as far as I'm concerned, they are largely blameless for the mistakes that occured prior to the storm's arrival. If the folks in the crosshairs couldn't get it done then it certainly isn't reasonable to expect that a bunch of buffoons inside the Beltway could have done better.

When a storm that big hits a city in what amounts to a topological salad bowl, then the results shouldn't be that surprising. To my knowlege, FEMA barely got involved when Iniki leveled Kuai'i. They sent money but that was about it. They didn't put anyone in hotels, they didn't feed anyone, they didn't fly in pallettes of Evian, they didn't distribute ATM cards and I don't remember anyone making a big deal about it. I didn't have a problem with FEMA then and I don't have a problem with FEMA now - other than the specific issues you raised about the delay in distributing needed resources.

I'm not defending FEMA or Brown. But I think FEMA is being made a convenient scapegoat for the scale of the destruction and for the complete lack of any effort by those suffering from it to mitigate it.

xoxoxoBruce 02-12-2006 06:56 AM

Quote:

I guess my point is that there is nothing that FEMA could have done in advance of the storm that NO could not have done and done better. FEMA would have had to start from scratch whereas NO knew everything and everyone they needed to know to empty the city. NO's failure was not due to a lack of resources and, in advance of a storm, resources are all FEMa can offer. And its not like FEMA knew something that NO didn't know - they were both looking at the same radar images.
FEMA, like the military, should have contingency plans prepared and if possible rehearsed, for every county in the country. If a flood hits St Louis, FEMA should have people designated to do what has to be done far in advance of the flood. Same for a Frisco quake.
There will always be surprises and unanticipated consequences but if they are prepared for the things that are anticipated and have their team in place they can respond to anything.
Like you said, there was plenty of warning for this storm. FEMA should have been massing the troops before it hit, not 3 days later. You don't wait for the shit to hit the fan before you put the contract out for bid.

Sure, the City of N.O. fucked up, but they have no authority outside the city limits. This sort of thing is regional not local. Even the state governor doesn't have juristiction over a large enough area. :cool:

wolf 02-12-2006 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richlevy
FEMA is a soup-to-nuts agency. While it does not get involved with every landslide, it is supposed to handle the big disasters that cities and states can't handle alone.

I agree that in the first six hours the city should have had an effective evacuation plan. After that, it was FEMA's show. 4 days for food and water? Turning away corporate shipments of food and water?

You're not supposed to expect anyone to show up for help for at least 72 hours after a disaster.

Mitigation means fema provides consulting services to reduce the overall impact of a disaster BEFORE it happens. Communities can listen to FEMA or not.

New Orleans did not.

The Presidential disaster declaration was made BEFORE Katrina made landfall. This released the resources, like FEMA, to be available when the local government called for them. They didn't call. As I've said before, FEMA doesn't just go. They have to be invited. If local resources are able to handle a situation, that's what's supposed to happen.

That the city did manage to evacuate a large number of residents prior to the storm hitting indicates that there were some plans in place, but not all of them were followed. Even if the busses had been used, that would be one trip out ... with the contraflow in place, egress from the city was possible, reentry wasn't. I haven't seen numbers on how many seats were available on those flooded busses, but probably far fewer than were needed. Lifeboats on the Titantic fewer.

It was a mess, but Brown didn't cause it.

xoxoxoBruce 02-12-2006 02:28 PM

The Governor of LA requested federal help on Friday, two days before the storm hit. :(

tw 02-12-2006 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie
I guess my point is that there is nothing that FEMA could have done in advance of the storm that NO could not have done and done better. FEMA would have had to start from scratch whereas NO knew everything and everyone they needed to know to empty the city.

FEMA's own exercise called Hurricane Pam in 2004 demonstrated that local and state resources would be overwhelmed immediately; that FEMA would have to move in immediately. In that study, it was determines that city and state could not get about 100,000 people out of New Orleans; that FEMA would have to assist before the storm struck.

Futhermore, FEMA is about avoiding damage before that damage can occur. A most famous case is Evansville and Graphton IL where FEMA moved the towns. Other lesser know examples include FEMA's campaign to convince AL homeowners in flood-prone Elba area to sell their homes and relocate. FEMA in the 1990s demonstrated how it is better to solve problems before they happen - which is a well proven William Deming concept.

Such programs were ongoing in CT, DE, CO, IL, MA, MN, MS, MI, MO, ND, SD, WY, UT, TX, and PA when something happened.

These 'mitigation activities' by FEMA were terminated in about 2001 - about the same time that professional disaster managers were being replaced by political appointees.

Meanwhile, Hurricane Pam demonstrated that another Hurricane Andrew scenario would happen if FEMA did not act before disaster struck. Remember, FEMA did zero - no response - to Hurricane Andrew for five days. A famous quote is from that lady county commissioner who said, "Send everything now. People will be dying in hours." Once that soundbyte got carried on network news, only then did FEMA start sending aid. That was the worse case scenario that caused FEMA to change in the 1990s.

As Jefferson Parish demonstrates, FEMA literally stopped and turned back rescue assistance that local officials requested. NYC police refused to be turned back when they knew who had asked for them - Jefferson Parish. However assistance from western NC counties was turned back.

FEMA did nothing effective knowing full well from Hurricanes Andrew and Pam that they had to respond before Katrina hit. FEMA also stopped a convoy of four hundred air boats requested by Jefferson Parish. They turned back four 18 wheelers of water shipped by Wal-Mart saying the water was not needed as people were dehydrating in the Superdome.

In that Ted Koppel interview some three days after Katrina, Brown finally admitted that the only reason they did not try to get people out of New Orleans was that they could not find vehicles. Whereas Koppel then says that you take every flatbed and tractor trailer and haul those people out. Brown does not respond.

FEMA knew that local officials would not have resources to respond to the disaster. But it gets even worse. When local officials organized volunteer assistance, then FEMA turned back that assistance. This has been documented too many times.

Brown did not know that so many people were in the Superdome? Bull. He met Mayor Nangins in the Superdome where thousands were waiting without any food or water. Brown says he did not learn of conditions in the Superdome until two days after he had seen it (or should have seen it) for himself. But then his staff was nothing more than political appointees.

Bottom line - FEMA knew the disaster would only be worse if they did not respond early. Brown himself was bragging that weekend how FEMA had supplies already propositioned in adjacent states just waiting to move. He was braggin about preparations days before Katrina struck. Well how many days did it take to get food to the Superdome and Convention center? Four. Four days to move only a few hundred miles. And then we have a fully functional international airport that remained totally unused except as a hospital in its terminal buildings. No waves of aircraft flying in aid for most of a week. All this because FEMA did not start their response until exposed by the press - including Geraldo Rivera. All of this made only worse because FEMA did not respond before disaster struck. Made worse because top FEMA people were replaced with political appointees.

Happy Monkey 02-12-2006 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf
This released the resources, like FEMA, to be available when the local government called for them. They didn't call.

I'm pretty sure that's just one of the talking point excuses that made the rounds in the aftermath, and isn't really true.

tw 02-12-2006 10:23 PM

Nixon's problem was that some Republicans were more patriotic rather than loyal. Loyalty at the expense of partiotism is a hallmark of the George Jr administration. But something has happened. What was obvious is, well, from the NY Times of 13 February 2006:
Quote:

Republicans' Report on Katrina Assails Response
House Republicans plan to issue a blistering report on Wednesday that says the Bush administration delayed the evacuation of thousands of New Orleans residents by failing to act quickly on early reports that the levees had broken during Hurricane Katrina.

A draft of the report, to be issued by an 11-member, all-Republican committee, says the Bush administration was informed on the day Hurricane Katrina hit that the levees had been breached, even though the president and other top administration officials earlier said that they had learned of the breach the next day.

That delay was significant, the report says, rejecting the defense given by the White House and the Department of Homeland Security that the time it took to recognize the breach did not significantly affect the response.

richlevy 02-12-2006 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw
Nixon's problem was that some Republicans were more patriotic rather than loyal. Loyalty at the expense of partiotism is a hallmark of the George Jr administration. But something has happened. What was obvious is, well, from the NY Times of 13 February 2006:

Part of this was the fact the the Democrats stayed away because they were tired of having any criticism by them labeled as partisan. In effect, they challenged the Republicans to issue a non-partisan report or appear as spineless hacks.

To my surprise, the Republicans actually rose to the challenge. Nice job, guys.

Of course we are coming up on an election year, and covering up for the adminstration would have a political cost in the next elections.

tw 02-12-2006 10:49 PM

In an earlier post, I thought Chertoff had nothing to worry about. However, not for one minute did I expect this from any Republicans. From the Washington Post of 12 Feb 2006:
Quote:

Report Spreads Blame for Katrina Failures
The House investigation criticized Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff's actions, saying his overall responsibilities for the federal disaster relief were fulfilled "either late, ineffectively or not at all."

The special report concluded that Chertoff unnecessarily delayed naming a top federal coordinator for relief efforts and the activation of an internal disaster management group. More prompt action by Chertoff would have quickened the relief effort, the report said.

The House report also faulted Chertoff for not following a response plan specifically for catastrophic disasters.
Quote:

also reported
Excerpts released from the House report, which issued a total of 90 separate findings, spreads the blame through all levels of government.
Remember what Chertoff is. He is a lawyer. Another example of a well proven guideline: 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management.

bluecuracao 02-13-2006 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce
I just occured to me that when they canned Brown he was probably prepared to take one for the team and be benched. But when he found out he wasn't allowed on the bench or even the locker room and he was out in the cold....a pariah....he got pissed and decided to lay it all out in his testimony.
Just a guess. :confused:

I think you might be right. I can't help thinking that he's the Dubya Admin's version of Oliver North.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.