Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
 

Youtube # 5g7zlJx9u2E

Welcome to post Anti-Patriot Act USA. "Where are your papers?"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Posters/43.jpg

A clip of what happened:

Damn... that's pretty crazy.

Jesus fuckin' CHRIST.

Fuck that, man. Theyre gonna be cops for maybe another... three days.

Connecting this with the Patriot Act and/or Homeland Security is ridiculous.

Not if you believe that soon ALL cops will be like this, because each thing like the Patriot act that gets passed is yet another foundation of your rights being destroyed...

(disclaimer: I'm not saying that I believe all of that... but I'm not saying I don't believe it.)

Bullshit. The government is the authority that sets the tone for what is acceptable in our society.

You believe it or you wouldn't have said it. You just doubt that a reality so horrible sould actually be unfolding. Welcome to what we asked for.

Parents tell their children the story of "The boy who cried wolf" for a reason.

The Frogs Who Desired a King
According to the story, a group of frogs lived happily and peacefully in a pond. Over time, however, they became discontented with their way of life, and thought they should have a mighty king to rule over them. They called out to the great god Zeus to send them a king.

Zeus was amused by the frogs' request, and cast a large log down into their pond, saying "Behold, your king!" At first, the frogs were terrified of the huge log, but after seeing that it did not move, they began to climb upon it. Once they realized the log would not move, they called out again to Zeus to send them a real king, one that moved.

Annoyed by the frogs, Zeus said, "Very well, here is your new king," and sent a large stork to the pond. The stork began devouring frogs. In terror, frogs called out to Zeus to save them. Zeus refused, saying the frogs now had what they'd wanted, and had to face the consequences.

To some, the simple lesson of the story is "leave well enough alone," or "be careful what you wish for."

More politically minded readers would interpret the story to mean, "Never give too much power or authority to your rulers." In times of crisis, people may desire a strong ruler to protect them, but a strong ruler can quickly and easily become a tyrant.

My initial reaction to this without watching the video (it's going to be too obviously NOT work for this time of day!) is that it's an adolescent with an attitude.

If he was using facilities without proper identification he should have left when he was asked to. I know ID cards & such are a contentious issue at present, but restricting access to areas without ID is reasonable and hardly new - it was a student facility and not a public area right?

As he had already proved unwilling to follow a request and responded to a hand on the arm by yelling, I can't help feeling he escalated the situation himself.

Rather than shouting and thrashing about on the floor, if he had followed the requests of the officers and left he would not have been Tasered again.

I accept my opinion may change when I've watched the video, but at present it sounds as if the officers over-reacted, but the student was the one primarily at fault.

That does not appear to be a *popular* fable, and so my statement still applies.

Two-bit University cops tase somebody and it's a Patriot Act thing? I guess the LA riots, just miles away from this location, were brought about by Clinton's lack of respect for the law, just like the right claimed.

:bonk:

:::slow clap::: Yes, there is a mocking, belittling interpretation for what I'm saying here, IE the easy rebuttal to what I'm not actually saying, and then there is the reality-based interpretation a reasonable adult could form: that authority figures, from the top down, set examples for what is acceptable in society. Does that apply directly in this case - is that a provable, direct cause for this, from point A to point B? No, that's not demonstrable, obviously. But, is this direction in society something to be mocked, something to be ignored, something that doesn't really exist? I guess we'll find out. But, hey, I'm sure it's cool. Let's just not talk about it, because it makes us feel icky. Let's go eat some ice cream.

In this case, university cops are real cops.

The taser should only be used when the cop feels that someone is in physical danger. Shouting and "thrashing about on the floor" (I didn't see any thrashing about except during the actual tasering) do not qualify.

Not to mention the stupid thuggishness of screaming at someone who has just been tasered to stand up - much less someone who has been tasered multiple times.

This reminds me of the idea of a girl in a miniskirt "asking for" rape.

Let's see..have someone from IT disable that particular computer (and if the University doesn't have the capability to do so they don't need to be in the business...and every single computer Mister Snottypants tries to log onto afterwards)

OR:

Let's be all coppy and dramatic and tough and make a huge newsmaking scene, taser the guy, and look like the big he-men or she-ra cops we think we are?

Oh, let's make a show! WE MUST SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE TO PEOPLE USING LIBRARY COMPUTERS. WE CANNOT STAND FOR THIS. WE MUST STAY THE COURSE. WE NEED TOUGH LEGISLATION.

Give me a fucking break.

Are we pretty sure this wasn't a demonstration to publicize the new "No Child Left Unsubdued" program?

I think that one has more to do with the mandatory druggings of children in public schools, as in THX 1138.

(just gotta get used to it)
We all get it in the end
(just gotta get used to it)
We go down and we come up again
(just gotta get used to it)
You irritate me my friend
This is no social crisis
This is you having fun
(no crisis)
Getting burned by the sun
(this is true)
This is no social crisis
Just another tricky day for you

Townshend 1981

:::quotes every other rock song, ever, as a rebuttal:::

OK, what do we know?
Evidently the kid was actually using the computer legally but didn't have his papers in order so they were following procedure when they asked (told) him to leave.
He didn't respond quickly enough for them because he either copped an attitude, was in the middle of a download or was trying to finish a paper due in the morning....... or a combination.

If he copped an attitude, it was because he was an ass or because the campus cops are bullys....likely both.

My personal experience with "enforcement" is the more power the officer has, the less they abuse people. More professional, if you will. The State Police give, nor take, any bullshit, the locals are more prone to being pushy or bullying, and rent-a-cops are complete dicks.

The Patriot act doesn't change that, except to add more people with a little power to the mix, like airport/railroad screeners. Giving them tasers just makes their ongoing abuse more visible. :2cents:

Brilliant!

That bit really blew me away.

As much as the fault is with the offending individual, the example they are following comes from the top. :2cents:

The human brain is built to notice patterns: to connect the dots to form a picture.

Sometimes there is a real pattern. Sometimes they are part of a larger pattern. And sometimes there are just dots.

If you look for a pattern, you will probably find one.

If you are convinced there is a pattern, you will definitely find one.

In March 1991, LA cops tasered Rodney King. They then beat him with sticks, to within an inch of his life. Which "example from the top" was responsible for this action? What of all previous examples of police brutality or overreach? Every one of them is a dot, do you notice a pattern?

Don't lecture me on the illusory nature of human perception. That belongs in the philosophy forum, and I would agree with you.

Though my thought is definitely flippant, I stand by it. Cut off the guy's access a few times, he'll go home, get his damn card, and remember to bring it...eventually.

Why does society first consider violent recriminations in every single possible situation? Where did we learn this? Obviously it has been recurrent in many societies through the ages, but how does OUR society keep reinforcing this knee-jerk reaction? 3 guesses.

For what it's worth, when someone in a position of authority tells me to do something, I do it. There's always time later to sort things out.

This is a no-win situation for the cops. If they let this guy be, and he ends up raping, robbing, or hurting someone, then the cops fucked up. If they enforce the rules, and ensure that he leaves, then the cops fucked up.

Which "rules" advocate the tasering of bystanders? The "don't ask for my badge number" rule?

Did the "what's your badge number" person get tasered?

Did the "I will fucking taser you" officer give them their badge number?

Criminal behavior is criminal behavior? (Most rapists, I've seen studies, really)start out as college students who forget their ID a lot. It's been proven. :cool:

Um...HUH?

I don't know, do you?

I don't. I don't know the answer to either question.

I didn't say there was a direct correlation. I'm just saying that the cops could be perceived as the bad guys either way.

That's why I asked. I'm not trying to escalate things, here - it was not a rhetorical question.

If a crossing guard tells you to pat your head while rubbing your belly, you do it? Ok, that's silly but do you see my point? I always question if the person telling me I must to do something, has the authority to do that.
That's quite often true, but in this case with the place obviously crowded, I don't think that applies. They were just overzealous in showing this disrespectful whippersnapper who's boss. :whip:

It's not only NOT a direct correlation, it's so far from correlating to the real situation it's not even funny.

Or as Jules would say (WWJS) Ain't no fuckin' ballpark neither

>>>>>>> :::tasers you, just to be sure:::

That's only true if their only two options were a) ignore him or b) taser him.

Quite right - that was my assumption, not an observation.

I thought a Taser just gave a jolt of pain. I didn't know it prevented you from standing up. I'm not being sarcastic - I honestly don't know what a Taser does. He screamed as if he was in agony, but was still coherent and mutinous.

Fair enough. I think the cops over-reacted rather than actually breaking the law, but I don't know how much force is considered reasonable to remove someone causing a disturbance. Again - not knowing what a Taser does I'm at a disadvantage.

Oh, I've watched with the sound up now BTW. Noisy bugger isn't he?

If we want to connect the dots properly, we should wait for the next shoe to drop.

If the couldn't-get-a-real-cop-job cops are punished, if the lad wins in a lawsuit, if the public reaction is one of horror and not he-deserved-it finger wagging, then we are truly not in a 1984ish fascist situation.

In fact to conceive of Homeland Security as offering us a fascist situation and not merely federal policing in an often-incompetent government is a leap.

One way we know this, is that we feel free to say these things on this thread.

A taser takes you down, complete loss of muscle control. :eek:

Undertoad?
 

hmmm. Just a thought: I hate the campus police. They were no where to be found when a student (male) was kidnapped and carjacked--he managed to get out of his van when the perps got downtown (quite a ways from campus) this happened at 6pm when the parking lot is pretty effing empty. HOWEVER, these same police are there in a second to ticket someone who parks illegally (a 50.00$ fine; parking permits also cost 50.00).

I hate them.

that said, knowing that these people are wannabe's, I'd do what they asked and throw in plenty of "sir's" and "ma'am's". They require that. easy-peasy.\

Kid lacks life experience. Doesn't mean he needs to be tased. He just needs to get a life. Reminds me of Python: "Now we see the violence inherit in the system!"

ha ha ha! you're on fire today!
 

If everyone is certain there is a libertarian crisis, there is no libertarian crisis. A libertarian crisis happens when we are not concerned and not paying attention.

I was in the Libertarian Party and I was real concerned about getting the word out on the various libertarian crises happening all around us every day. You could not blink and not see another one. They were all around us. From the Polish immigrant who lost all the value of his land and thus his savings, when his backyard was declared a "wetlands" and it wasn't; to the FBI sniper shooting an innocent man's wife between the eyes at Ruby Ridge; to the average tax rate increasing from 10% to 50% over 70 years. My God, Can These Things Happen In America?

Now that I'm a little older and wiser, I notice that these are mostly not horrible trends and crises, but pockets of incompetency, injustice, How The System Actually Works, and plain old "shit happens". When combined with a little of my naivete at how things work, these became mountains.

So I guess my advice is, Don't Panic

I'll take your Python and raise you a Ghostbuster:
"Maybe now you'll never slime a guy with a positron collider, huh?"

If you define "everyone" as a small pocket of habitual internet debaters, and the alarmist, but obscure, journalistic pieces they quote, then sure, "everyone" is concerned and paying attention. I simply question whether you can project your own personal alertness on the rest of society. Not panicking out of ignorance isn't the same as an informed person, like yourself, not panicking.

I would like to see the 10 minutes before that video starts, which would give the situational context to understand why the Taser was used.

No, but if she told me to stay on the sidewalk, and I crossed the street anyway, I would expect to get tasered in my ass.

Why were they doing random student id checks in the library in the first place? Do you have to be 21 now before you can study at a library table, or something like that?

Is this tale more popular?

Samuel told all the words of the LORD to the people who were asking him for a king. He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plough his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the LORD will not answer you in that day." (I Samuel 8:7-18)

I'd say we were warned.

I don't know how things work there, but am assuming on a fairly open campus they do spot checks to make sure people using the facilities are actually students.

You would! :eek: Tasered? Man, when I become an evil tyrant I want you as one of my subjects.

Kid plans lawsuit

via Fark:via that LA Times story
Of course, none of this excuses any kind of bad police work by bad cops.

If he's on the ground, refusing to get up and leave, how is tasering him so he can't get up going to help? :rolleyes:

Just because it gets my knickers in a twist:
"Now you see the violence inherent in the system."

Didn't you ever give your little brother a pinch to shut him up and ended up creating more racket?

Not that I'm advocating that as a recommended approach for law enforcement. Sigh - it didn't work then and it doesn't work now.