CARS
 

As some of you know, I am the Finance Manager at a Chrysler/Jeep dealer in SE PA. Since most people drive, and many people have questions about cars, I'm here to help. Got a question? Need advice? Or do you just want to make fun of me for being in the car business? Have at it!

SEE ALSO FINANCING YOUR CAR and WARRANTIES AND SERVICE CONTRACTS

Do you make more money on new cars or used cars?

on the sale of a car, (front end) almost always on used. on financing(backend), usually used, and on warranties, about the same, although the cost is higher for used car warranties.

my month generally goes as the used car department goes.

So how much do you mark up the used cars? Given a car which would break even at 15k, how much would try list it for and let it go for?

(Yay 500 posts)

most used cars get marked up to $**,995....so, depending on what the actual cost is, there can be somewhere between 2,000 and 3500 mark up. that's the norm...sometimes, we get a car really cheap, and we price it at market value, which may create more than the above profit. sometimes, you stretch on a trade to make a deal, and the mark up is considerably lower....our average gross profit on a used car is around 1800/copy.

So it's not % based?

Like a 10k car goes up to 11k a 15k to 16.5k...

nope. at least, not at any dealership i've worked at.

What percentage of trade-ins do you keep to sell at your dealer? Don't some get sold off wholesale, or traded to other dealers or some such?

56.2% of our used.......

sorry.

dar,
it depends entirely on the car in question. we tend to stock our make of vehicles. People go to a dealership because of the brand of new cars they sell . It makes sense, then to stock the same type of cars on the used lot, so that when someone doesn't want to sacrifice 5 to 6 thousand in the first year's depreciation, or can't afford new, they can be switched to newer, excellent condition used cars. Also, we have access to lease returns, closed auctions, and floor plan accounts from the manufacturers financial arm.

Floor plan is like a revolving car loan on a very large scale that the dealer uses to finance the cars on their lot untill they sell. They then pay the amount "floor planned" off with the "funding" of the customer's bank contract, or cash.

We have two main wholesalers. One guy buys anything from a 91 Lumina to 03 Porsche to a Harley Davidson Motorcycle. He places cars at other dealerships. we buy jeeps from him occasionally. He's got it going on.

The other deals mainly in "sleds" .....older cars that he then takes to those little shady looking used car lots that do such a service to our industry's image.

Okay, so, now that I'm armed with the article that Bruce posted, which sort of dealership are you at now, LJ? Haggle or no-haggle?

I got to page 5 before my eyeballs dried out last night. My dealership is of average size. the one from those articles was a superstore. 85 salesmen, fingerprinting, drug tests? yikes. the articles i read smacked of an in depth interview told in the 1st person for dramatic effect. I don;t believe he really worked there. But, to answer your question, we are a haggle store. BUT....we do not fuck around with people like that guy describes....the 4 square method...old school.....it's all menu selling now. We ask the customer to buy it for list price, then they say" no", then we say, "what do i have to do to put you inthis car today?" blah blah blah. and, at the end of the day, the customer gets a better price than he would have at the no haggle place where they helped us sell this guy a car by giving us a number to work against.

Lumberjim -- I assume you sell more automatics, but is there a percentage of people that buy sticks these days? Does the dealership even get many of them in, anymore?

depends a lot on the car in question.

wranglers are probably the highest percentage of 5 speeds among american cars, i'd guess...
we usually stock 60% 5speed

you can;t get it even if you want it in a grand cherokee...

liberty's ...we might sell 10 manual trannys a year.

20% on the cruiser....

1% sebring convertible gtc

n/a on anything else.......and i've always wanted a 5 speed minivan.

they DO, however offer something called "autostick" in many of the highline sedans like the 300M

it works like a tiptronic, if you're familiar with that....if not, it's a fully functioning automatic transmission, with a side to side option that allows you to shift the transmission manually like a 5 speed. tap left, shift down, tap right, upshift......it has safing sensors to prevent over or under revving......it's not the same without the 3rd pedal, though......i like a 5 speed when i can get one....

when it starts to warm up, i'll be back into a wrangler and start re-trainng my clutch muscle. i have a liberty renegade at present, and it's cool, but i miss the wrangler......

The only reason I'm not driving stick currently is that the current wolfmobile, which was an incredible deal, isn't even MADE in stick.

I went to one dealership (Chevy) and told the guy I was looking for a manual tranny. He laughed at me and said he couldn't imagine anyone wanting one.

Funny, I said, I can't imagine buying a car at your dealership.

See yah.

wranglers are probably the highest percentage of 5 speeds among american cars, i'd guess...
we usually stock 60% 5speed

I find that pretty impressive -- more than 50% stick on a vehicle. Not bad and a little encouraging. I wonder what it is about the Wrangler (or the type of person that buys them) that allows for more manuals than autos.

and i've always wanted a 5 speed minivan

You're not the first person I've heard say that. A number have looked down at the mysterious third pedal in my car and noted that they wished their van was a manual. I guess a lot of the vehicles used for hauling wouldn't have a stick on purpose, but a van? Why not? Then you could have the long, schoolbus-style stick. Oh, baby, that'd be sweet. :D

The mid 80s version of the Isuzu Trooper had that. It was fun. :)

Kitsune, a true offroad would need manual due to the need for the driver to gear up and down in advance and not "after the fact" like automatic does. Automatic doesn't gear down approaching the hill, but on the hill, in an off road situation that can suck. (well..more so than normaly)

I'd love to know what percentage is manual on Subaru WRX. Which has always been presented as a rally car.

When I was shopping for a car, I desperatly tried to get a manual car that was comfy (for someone who's 6'6"), reliable and not too expensive. I found the task impssible.
3 Types of cars that can be found in manual easily:

1) Junker econoboxes. Base model civics etc.

2) Saabs

3) Sports cars.

Of those only 1 is cheap, but hadly reliable and far from comfy. So I drive a Chrysler Concorde..with an auto. (Not as bad as the auto in the Honda CRV or the Nissan Maxima)

Saabs are not too expensive, quite a good deal considering the retail, but those things are more expnsive to maintan than the space station.


Hey Wolf, Seen the Isuzu VehiCross? That looked like a fun car..

i was being a litttle bit sarcastic about the 5 speed minivan, but i did drive a 72 vw microbus accross the country when i was young that was a 4 speed.....too cool....vw's had fahrvegnugen even back then.


vehicross looks like a basketball sneaker

At the risk of thinking up a "Homer Car" I think schoolbus-style sticks should be an option along with a number of other things.

Five-point seatbelts -- they hold you in better and are easy to get out of. Yeah, most people would hate them but they'd do wonders for safety unlike the infamous "decapitator" automated belts of the early 90s. Too bad no one would wear these, either.

Coolant Thermos Bottle -- five or so years ago I read an article that someone had come up with an insulated coolant resevoir bottle. In the winter time, your car was instantly warm in the morning (enough to kick on the heater) and there was no wait time. They said it would be an option in a number of years, but it never happened! When I lived in a place that actually had a winter, I couldn't wait for this innovation to become a reality.

A/C Condensation Collector -- you know all that water that drips off the A/C? That stuff should be collected, filtered, and made available to the passengers. On hot days, there wouldn't be anything better than the cool, refreshing taste of AC drippings.

Radio Station Info Display -- Landrover is the only company I know that has implemented this in vehicles sold in the US. The radio station you tune to sends out its station ID, music genre, etc, in a digital format. In Europe, practically all car radios for the past ten years or more understand this data and will even display traffic accident information. Want to listen to jazz? The radio will find a jazz station for you. Radio station starting to fade out as you drive away from it? If the station has a networked twin, the radio will tune to it.

http://www.windycitybmw.com/images/a.../homer_car.gif

Kitsune, a true offroad would need manual due to the need for the driver to gear up and down in advance and not "after the fact" like automatic does. Automatic doesn't gear down approaching the hill, but on the hill, in an off road situation that can suck.

Yeah -- although I don't know of many people that really drive offroad. As I understand it, hauling something with a manual is a total bitch. When you shift gears with a stick, all power goes away momentairly and that doesn't happen with an auto. If you're hauling something very heavy, stalling the engine becomes a problem when you move out of first.

...then again, I don't know of many people that haul anything heavier than a small boat.

We've got that on our Chevy Venture. Very nice.

I believe we were promised permanently Rain-X'd windshields made of some sort of water-resistant material. I would be happy with wipers that don't chatter.

you should ALL know what a promise is worth when talking cars......

...ooh, i can;t believe i just took a shot at myself.....


didn;t the jetsons promise flying cars?

You've seen the people on the roads these days. How many of those people would you trust in a flying car? :rolleyes:

Oh how wrong you are , most 18 wheelers are 13-18 speeds . Yes it sucks to have to shift thru all those gears , but ,,,
1) after you start out you don't have to use the clutch ( the gears are that close to gather ) . A big rig has that many gears because a diesel engine is a slow revelaoutin ( your tach is in 100's in sted of 1000's ) high torque( most on the road now days are in the 400-500 hp range) engine , a gas engine is a high rev LOW torgue . so the sweet spot ( power band ) on a diesel is like 5-10 rpm some were in the range , as long as you keep it in that range all is good , not lugging the engine or over reving it eather .
2) you can skip gears , on our big ass volvo we use at the shop ( 400+ hp 14 wheeler 10 speed 60,000+lbs 40+ft long ) i start out in 2nd run that untill it winds ALL the way out then go to 5th then 7th then 9th and if traffic premits 10th . Now a cool thing is that as strong as the engine is going up range when you are stopping you can down shift all the way to about 2 mph .

oh and to realy blow your mind there is also a thing called a "Jake Brake " when you are stoping you can flip this little lever and the engine reverses compression , this saves on the brakes , is usefull on hills , and scares the shit out of unsuspecting folks with their windows rolled down!!!!
Ever hear an 18 wheeler pulling to a stop makeing that "GGGGRRRRRRRRRRR" sound , that is a jake brake .

Just don't use those brake assist devices around tollbooths and certain other places...it's against local regs. Look for the "No Jake Brakes" signs.

Brian

I had a Chevy astrovan with a 5 speed stick.
PT Cruiser has tiptronic and radio station readout.
Most high end automatic SUVs have a hill hold feature for decending steep hills without braking in low range (off road) mode.
The Ford version of Wolfs car comes with a stick in the SHO model.
Big rig diesels usually run 1700 to 2000 rpm on the road.
I need a no jake brake sign in front of my house.

LOOK I FOUND THE LUMBERJIM MOBILE !!!!

close.....needs to be a gti.....

does give me a bit of a woodie, though

My Next Car
 

Chevy Tantrum!!

http://www.theonion.com/images/356/article2651.jpg

Story:
http://www.theonion.com/4005/news1.html

No woodworking this weekend. I had a car accident last weekend, so I was shopping this weekend. :(

And here's the result! :D

I like it. Nice color.


Good luck keeping the neighbors junkers from scratching it up.

How many people asked if you got a good deal?:)

Getting a new car is the coolest thing, even if wrecking an existing one is one of the suckiest things.

had you pegged for a pick up truck guy.

:rolleyes:

Well, it's a Saturn, so you get the deal they've got. I'm sure there are better and worse deals out there, but I got $1500 cash back and 0% financing over 5 years.

Unless I'm moving, I an't got nothin to put in the back of a pickup truck.

Yeah, we know that, but isn't that a mandatory question when you see someone with a new car? Maybe Saturn has gotten the word out, after all. Best of luck with it, Monkey.
Oh, I assume you'll be renting a truck to deliver that furniture to me, then. :D

the only grown up man i've ever called a prick was a car dealer who ignored my shopping list and tried to get me to choose a car based on color. when i asked him about price, he wanted to know what i made. when i asked him how my paycheck affected the car's cost, he said, "well, i could tell you anything and you wouldn't know the difference."

ergo the insult......and the car purchased at another lot.

The insult? which one of a string!:eek:

that's what you get for trying to buy a car without a man present.

geez, when will you women learn.

:thoughtful pause in conversation:

:contemplative stroll across the room:


:musing grab for axe:

:deep breath -------- pondering swing:

:chortle



:wonders if she got the joke



:ducks under desk just to be safe

LJ, question for you:

I have a 1989 white pontiac sunbird with a miriad of problems:

cracked up windsheild
stripped out spark plug hole
one wheel is on a donut right now, and the rest of the tires are bald
runs REALLY loud
missing things here and there (indicator for interior lights, light for gear status, tail light, brake light, moulding around the outside windows)
Big dent in the driver's side door
needs a tune up
has 120,000 miles on it

I have had this car about 5 years now. I am planning on selling it for about 300.00 tonight and I want to know if you think that is a fair price for selling it privately.

the car you described is known as a "hoopdie"

sounds like a dealer would put about $100 in it, so if you're comfortable making a 200% profit, then i guess so.......

just kidding.....

yeah, 300-500 retail......sounds like your customer is doing you a favor by disposing of it for you.

cant really go wrong when you're talking about those kinds of numbers.

you're not selling it to a friend are you?

Its a friend of a friend of a friend.

They want it for the teenage daughter and want to get all the issues fixed before she starts driving it.

I asked for 500.00, but she wouldn't give me more than 300.00 really, I guess that's as good as it gets for a crappy car.

I am actually going to miss it.

Toyota Echo
 

I decided I didn't want to wear out or put gas in my pickup driving to school this summer so I picked up a used Echo. The bad news is I just paid $1.87 per gallon for gas the good news is that even in hill country I got 42mpg with the Smugmobile.

Fuel is expensive.
Moterbikes rule =D Sure we're 10 times as likely to be roadkill but it so much *fun*

case do they know how much it's going to cost? May be cheaper for them to buy a more expensive car without all the issues, all those together are gonna add up for a fair amount.

Actually I sold the car to them yesterday. They have a mechanic friend who is going to do all the work for cheap. I don't know much else, though. I am sure that retapping the spark plug is going to be a chore, though.

Helicoil.

That means drill the hole bigger, tap it, install the helicoil, hope it holds, hope it doesn't create a hot spot for preignition and clean the debris out of the cylinder. I'd say that's a chore. :)

Good thing it isn't my problem anymore :D

spoken like a true car salesperson. once the taillights pass the curb......
:)

Yes, and one of those was missing too. Say, maybe I should make a career change...:D

What's the deal with milage on a car sold as new? My friend purchased a car with ~250 miles on it and before signing the papers, he asked about it. They replied with some bullshit story about, "Oh, some woman bought this car but she didn't like the color so she brought it back and we swapped it out." I find this to be somewhat... doubtful.

So are there rules to selling a car marked "new" that are milage-based?

as long as it has not been titled, there are no rules. Dealers frequently put cars into Demo service, and drive them up to 5000 miles or so. the warranty begins, but apart from having to disclose that fact, there aren't any rules ) in PA atleast). Banks sometimes treat them differently. And dealers also let people take cars home over the weekend to try it out, which can put some miles on it, or dealer trade a car, which also puts miles on. shouldnt be a big deal for most customers, but some DO care about it.

Re: Toyota Echo
 

Hmm, I've had a toyota Prius for about a year now. My MPG status screen is telling me I am getting 36.2 MPG.

What I notice though is that the car seems to get crappy milage until it warms up, then phenominal milage after that, but since I tend to make short trips, it kills my average.

might want to have it checked. I don;t know a WHOLE lot about it, but I believe that may be an indication of bad rings or plugs. how many miles on her? last tune up?

cars generally have relatively poor gas mileage until they get to around 3500 miles, by then the rings have seated properly, and mileage improves. just food for thought. anyone more knowledgeable know if i'm close on this?

Everybody uses Moly coated rings now. They're seated before it gets out the factory door. The mileage improves because all the things that move, driveline, undriven wheels, steering, brakes and such, get all the rough edges and high spots smoothed out so there's less resistance. Also the fuzzy logic of the onboard computers increase their knowlege of your quirks and style so the car gets better at anticipating your next move. The less corrections it has to make the better the mileage will be.

I'm wondering how long the Prius takes to warm up? Modern cars are designed to heat up as rapidly as possible to reduce emissions and improve mileage and driveability. I'm sure when they designed the Prius that was factored in to the Nth degree, just because of what it is. You might have the dealer check the emissions system and how long it takes to go from open loop to closed loop operation. It could be something as simple as a stuck thermostat.

i knew it would be you, ya motor head.