Mar 22, 2009: EDAR
 

EDAR stands for "Everyone Deserves a Roof"
It's a cross between a shopping cart and a pop-up camper.

Samuelson is an old hand at charity;Here's Samuelson sitting on an EDAR, in a rather pristine setting.

http://cellar.org/2009/edar1.jpg

He sponsored a design contest, had several sizes built, in variations that even have pockets for collected cans/bottles.
He had them tested for ruggedness, and critiqued by a bunch of experts and laymen, before settling on the final product.
He figures manufacturing them in large quantities will bring the cost under $500, so they could be used not only for street homeless, but around the world at refugee centers and for disaster relief.
A Los Angeles women's shelter is using them indoors for women with small children.

Here's an EDAR actually in use, in a more natural setting.

http://cellar.org/2009/edar2.jpg

All is not sweetness and light, however... there are questions.
LA Times

You know what would make good, easily-portable dwellings for homeless people? Big prams.

$500!!!! That's absurd.

Just another government money drain.

They could just make them out of see through plastic to remove the fears of the police search and seziure laws. That would sort of defeat the purpose.

Uh, not the government, charity.

Here lately, It looks like the government IS a charity.

While it might be more difficult to travel with, the culvert section in the background would provide much greater protection from various falling and projected objects. Remember Skylab.

loads better than a cardboard box

Right, but.... you can get a basic 2-person dome tent from Walmart for about 30 bucks. What in the hell makes it SO expensive to produce a one-person pop-up?

And the thing is..... much as I appreciate the sentiment..... the one thing I have learned since I've moved to the US is this: In the US, people don't appreciate stuff if it's free. Make them work for it or pay half or just something and they'll take good care of whatever they're getting. I understand this is harder with the homeless, they have less to give, but for an investement of this nature, I would suggest the charity involved doesn't just pass them out willy nilly.

Goes along with the general attitude in this country of not caring how much it costs as long as someone else is paying for it.

Yes, what monster said...

the fucking cock smoker in the picture should have his kneecaps broken.

for shame! and they tout his charitable works.....i wonder how much he made off the charity of people sympathetic to 'the children' in his previous ventures.

here's a scumbag we can all hate

under $500 indeed

IKEA could get this done for $50.

And who is going to assemble the thing? Can you see the average bag lady reading the translated Chinese instructions in four point font with all the pipes, hooks, screws and bungees next to her with a flashlight in her mouth.

"...insert for to pipe B1a to slot G37 then to hook grommet to for bungee attach pipe C1b to ground. For to enjoy"

mmmm - "for to enjoy"

pop-up requires no assembly other than "undo velcrose"

I do like that it keeps the base of the unit about 6" off the ground that is different than your typical tent - $500 worth :headshake

Whoa, where did that come from? What makes you think he made anything off those charities? Fill us in. :confused:

:sweat: :biggrinlo

The best analogy for one of these things is a shopping cart. This is basically a shopping cart that unfolds into a tent. The cost isn't just in the canvas tent, it's in the convertible cart.

Just by way of example, the smallest folding Magliner hand truck costs $299 in my 2002 Grainger catalog. The cheapest non folding wire mail room cart costs $268 in the same catalog. They go up to $400 when you get them with the good wheels. If you are just buying the individual medium duty swivel locking caster wheels, you'll pay about $20 each. So it's about $80 just for the wheels. Remember that this thing is intended to be pushed all over the city by homeless dudes. It's got to be durable. It's intended to hold lots of empty bottles and cans for scroungers. Not to mention personal belongings. It's got to be durable, otherwise there is no point. A cheap Walmart tent will break its zipper after a season or two of light use. This thing will be used every day for months, at a minimum.

$500 seems like a lot of money, but the Army would design this same tent for $50,000.

Look at that frame.

I think one of the big differences between the EDAR and a Walmart tent is that the EDAR is elevated off the ground. There must be some advantage to not having your ass lying directly on the, in many cases, freezing cold hard ground.

It's nice to be off the ground when it is wet and/or cold. Plus, creepy crawly things are less likely to come inside when you are off the ground.

See, I couldn't be homeless because of creepy crawlies. Fearless except for creepy crawlies. :shudder: ;)

WOW. Some very harsh Merkin opinions here.
Two countries divided by a gulf of immense proportions.

Yes, $500 is a LOT.
But for goodness sake, these are PEOPLE we are talking about. Sentient cratures? You know? Dogs & whales & cows & all that shite... No, people. Your States don't like them killed by abortion, but is happy for them to die of hypothermia?

Sheesh.
Get a school to sponsor a hobo.
Buy them a $500 shelter. Keep them in the drug of their choice. After all, humans are so important. Oh, I forgot, some of your States like to kill them too.

PS - we're rubbish re the homeless too, so I'm not trying to take the moral highground. But at least we have the Big Issue :rolleyes:

eh hem - see post #17 :cool:

great minds think alike

the issue i have with it is not the idea of providing tents....my issue is that there is clearly $450 of profit margin in each tent for the jerkoff in the suit and the people he has to bribe to get this through.

Ooops, pardon my tail, um, ,post.

Wait a minute, he's not making $450, he's not making anything. He's paying the $500 and giving them away. Why do you have a problem with Peter Samuelson, Jim???

he's paying the $500?

personally?

Now you're on the trolley ;)

So far he's paid a hell of a lot more than that to get this designed and built. He said made in quantity, they could be made for less than $500. I don't think he intends to keep buying them, that's what the charity will do, he just got it off the ground.

I don't see where he's making any money on this deal, or any of the other charities he's started, which is why I wanted to know why you wanted to break his kneecaps? If you actually know he's been screwing somebody, fill us in.

I'm off my trolley.
(may be a Brit phrase)

It is unfortunate that we would judge someone and question their motives so quickly on the basis of a $500 pricetag and comparison shopping pricing from Walmart (the benchmark importer of cheaply made Chinese products - an organization associated with negative social impacts and questionable ethics itself).

Surely further investigation and fact finding is warranted before coming to any conclusion, especially one so harsh.

In the absence of such information, perhaps we can give the benefit of the doubt and not question Mr. Samuelson's motives so harshly and publicly.

I did follow a few links and check out some pages (for example, Wikipedia has an entry for Mr. Samuelson) and found nothing so far that would decribe him as an opportunist or exploiter; quite the contrary.

Judge no man without first trying to walk in his shoes.

I was chanelling a Simpson's episode there, sundae. It's an old-timey way of saying "you're right about that" -

Spud, a young carnie, was teaching Bart the art of attracting customers to a rigged carnival game. He called the targets 'pigeons' and 'rubes' - all that stuff...had to be there...

my mind is just a big simpson-y recepticle...sigh.

Say, friend. You're new around these parts, ain't you?

i don't

i'm just jaded and assume that there is something in it for him. something big and green.

i might be out of line entirely. and of course, i would never actually cause physical harm to another human being.....I was just being dramatic.....and I may have been a bit tipsy when i posted that......

but usually.....when a person is doing a 'charitable' work....they are giving something more than the minimum required to that charity in order to qualify......and while the organization may be 'non profit'.....dude is pulling a paycheck that makes it well worth his time......

Lurking for a long time and read something that moved me enough to reply. A bit of an appeal for respect and compassion really.

Please forgive my intrusion if I am out of touch with spirit of the larger Cellar community. If so, I will withdraw back into the shadows.

For reference, Wikipedia defines Mr. Samuelson as a Social Entrepreneur. Their defintion of that term may help provide a context.

YES YES

sure sure

all that is quite right. It just doesn't fit well with my own particular idiom.

Ok, ok, sorry for being so serious!

Now, where's the hot sauce and how would one go about barbequing an EDAR and what would it taste like anyway? :)

Back to the fun!

Soz, chick. It wasn't aimed at anyone specific.

But I was riled.

People in this country have problems with the homeless (read the Hate Mail or my 'rents fave The Express) but "Sometimes our best intentions do not go
amiss; sometimes we do as we meant to" (Sometimes, Sheenagh Pugh). What she writes is true for me - I'd like to think that most of us DO make an effort.

It hurts me when people I care about, people I revere, make statements that I can't countenance. Statements that dismiss other people as just nothing. I am an atheist. I don't believe in a soul. But oddly, I seem to place more value in a human life than some Dwellars who think they will live forever. I certainly seem to place more immportance in human life then many Christians I know. And I'm happy to debate this (in a different thread).

Sorry, I am being a witch here. But I do believe it.

You're right rotary65, I did a lot of Googling on Mr Samuelson and couldn't find anything negative. He's on the boards of a number of charities which are accredited by the BBB Wise Giving Alliance. In order to be accredited the board members can not be compensated, as I understand it.
Mr Samuelson could be the Devil himself, but I haven't found anything. Maybe Sheldon could shed some light on it?

btw, I tried to post another IOtD last night but fucking Comcast was fucking down fucking again, but now I'll let this one play awhile. ;)

#1) rotary65 -- I did call you 'friend' ;)

#2) sundae -- you're right. especially when it comes to the Every Sperm is Sacred crowd not really giving a good gawddamn about that Sperm once it's all grown up and needing a pot to piss in.

I'm in total agreement with you there.

"Luxury. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt."

"Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah."

Yes!!! I think I can fit my dog, and books in there; and still sleep comfortably. Nice! I might even be able to install a 2 stroke and headlights. Go mobile! :)

Which bring up a good point... $500 will get you a car, on Craigslist.

Getting it official costs a little more, and it may not actually run for very long, but it's a car and even provides an emergency, though pricey, source of heat.

Plus it may lock and prevent vandals from stealing your stuff.

And then, if they got into a "who has the worst drivers' license picture" conversation, they would totally win.

I slept in a car behind my bro's house for a week or so when I was a teenager. Not too bad. But I was a teenager. Prolly be rough now.

For example:
Attachment 22584

Thank you for the nightmares, Capn.
:headshake

Well, why don't you just put a hole right through my dreams then?:D What if I can get it in a baby-blue color though?

capn, dammit.

I think it's a great idea and I think it looks like a great design, and I don't doubt that $500 is remarkably cheap for what is involved..... but I seriously doubt that they are going to last as long as they are built for. Many homeless people are so because they're incapable of taking care of themselves, never mind their possessions. A lot of them need so much more than just a roof. I admire the sentiment, I'm concerned about it's practicality. I feel that at that cost, the charity needs to find some way to encourage them to take good care of it. many homeless are addicts to various different substances. When their need got bad enough, what would prevent them from trading it for a hit, or abandoning in search of a hit and it not being there when they come back? Will the charity also be providing locks? With loseable keys or forgettable combinations? they are so many people who prey on the homeless (including other homeless who are just higher up the pecking order and natural bullies/psychos....) this could just become another thing to beat them with unless there are so many they all get one..... maybe they could add thumbprint ID machines to unlock the wheels. But then what of the homeless lepers?

's my job. ;)

Sounds just like a ad hoc committee on the issue of the homeless. There is something wrong with every suggestion, so nothing at all gets done.

fair point....

why fuck around? why not just hook them up with these?

or this

well. yes......i should have thought of that

Too regressive;

Actually in cold weather lying on the ground is warmer than being elevated above the ground as you can never warm the airspace and cold continues to penetrate above. (experience)

Now lying on wet ground is another story entirely.