Mueller Report
 

You can get it here... https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

This is what it looks like redacted...

Now maybe we can move on to more pressing matters like spying with no legal probable cause.

Report comes out. Everybody ignores what they don't want to know.

"Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

The Russians were invested in wrecking our election. "The investigation ... identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign," the report states. "Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency ... the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election activities." https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2019...7951555554837/

Mueller refers to 10 times where Trump asked people around him to engage in activities which could be obstruction.

The only coordination we know about was Trump asking the Russians on national television to interfere.

We are left with the same political situation. I think Pelosi will prevent a vote on impeachment in the hopes that 2020 goes ok.

FISA found probable cause, or there wouldn't have been an investigation

Yes, that's the legal procedure. We'll see.

The same would be true for any one of us. It is a basic logic problem: it is impossible to prove a negative.

That's one of the reasons why conspiracy theory takes hold.

It's ALWAYS fully possible to have any number of unanswered questions - questions that, even, can NEVER be answered.

But it's important to remember at all times: unanswered questions are not a proof of anything.

Why would you guess that they didn't indict? If there was an indictment or recommendation in the report, could Barr have hidden it without Mueller leaking or holding a press conference exposing that?

Same question - Rosenstein?

What would Mueller have to gain by not indicting if evidence exists? Being the hero of 150 million people that hate Trump?

A lot of people here are chasing Elvis. The chances of a reversal here are waning.

[Bold mine]

Aha! There's your collusion.

Let's see them prove otherwise.

He believes that authority lies with Congress.

same old, same old
 

No collusion.

Insufficient evidence to determine obstruction.

Two-plus years, millions spent, dedicated professional investigators = nuthin', nuthin', and nuthin'.

Whole whack of folks ought to be demandin' their money back cuz the First Act blew big steamin' chunks.

Second act: (more) propaganda-makin', impeachment whoop-de-doo.

Third Act: repubs retake the house, Trump keeps the Big Chair for four more.

Epilog: 2024

-----

Sure: a lotta lil fishies got fried, but the Daddy Cat is still swimmin', dodgin' desperately laid hooks. Fishermen grumble, consider harpoons or dynamite stubbies to get the Daddy Cat up & out. Good luck, fishermen!

-----

So: what's all this public falderol mean? Not a goddamned thing....it's what's goin' on behind the curtain that matters...really & truly.

Gold & Guns, bitches.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the purpose of this investigation/report.
It's in the title, right on the front page.
Trump is a side show.
Attachment 67381

Regardless if you hoped Trump would be found guilty or innocent, the purpose was in the title.
The unstated purpose was to find out how and prevent it in the future.

I learned a new use for an old word!

Cool. A little later, Ima smoke me a whack o' weed, and after that Ima drink a whole whack of Sprodka. Maybe two whacks o' Sprodka.

Go, Me, go Me!!!:jig:

"Everyone seems to have forgotten the purpose of this investigation/report."

There's the stated, formal purpose: then there's the real purpose.

#

"The unstated purpose was to find out how and prevent it in the future."

So: how does Bob suggest we do that? Surely: his recommendations are listed in the document, yeah?

##

"Go, Me, go Me!!!"

:thumbsup:

So you feel since Trump wasn't found guilty you don't care that the Russians (Chinese. Ukrainians, N Koreans, etc) fucked, are fucking, will fuck, with our elections?

They only did that out of desperation because Hillary was running. The whole world was ABC (except for some misguided Americans). Water under the bridge. Reelect Trump, problem solved.

"So you feel since Trump wasn't found guilty..."

First off: he couldn't be 'found guiltly' since, of course, there hasn't been a trial.

Second: as I say, I don't care if Trump is the Devil Hisself. I hired him to be sugar in the gas tank. He's an instrument. Toss him away, folks like me will find another (or, mebbe, we'll just start shootin').

Third: no, I really don't care that 'Russians (Chinese. Ukrainians, N Koreans, etc) fucked, are fucking, will fuck, with our elections'. This is not new or news. Every nation (includin' US) mucks about in other nations' business. We can't stop them (and none of them can stop US). No, the best we can do formally is defend our processes (voting, tabulation, etc.). The best you can do: don't believe everything you read or hear, take it all with more than a grain of salt, be the gatekeeper of your head.

The Russians were/are looking to drive tribalism and create dissent. The election is a great way to do that, when it's an election year.

Intelligencer: More Than Half of Russian Facebook Ads Focused on Race

Slate: Russian Trolls Were Obsessed With Black Lives Matter

Toad,

As I say: don't believe everything you read or hear, take it all with more than a grain of salt, be the gatekeeper of your head.

If you don't, if you rely on others to be honest, then -- baby -- you'll be screwed up one side and down the other.

The unfortunate thing: a great many folks can't (or, have been taught to not) gate-keep their own heads. Fodder, is what they are.

Gatekeep = Only believe what you feel jibs with your opinion. :eyebrow:

Not a bad thing if one's opinion is founded on what 'is'.
 

Certainly a damn-sight better than lapping up crap just cuz some smooth talker tells you it's steak.

But then you never learn anything new.

When it comes to the naturally pernicious nature of government...
 

...my mind is closed, yeah.

Well that was based on the US House Intelligence that released a couple thousand ads that did actually run.

Oxymoron territory.

And how can you see without an investigation?

A red herring.

FISA standards are not the same as for criminal cases. Developing information to meet FISA probable cause standards can begin with guilt by association even though that association may turn out to be benign. This allows for the target of a politically motivated investigation to be investigated indirectly, via investigation of FISA qualifying associates, in hopes of uncovering (which hunt) damaging collaterally obtained information about the political target even when the FISA requirements for a direct investigation into that person aren't met.

That's why the investigation was into "Russian Interference" and not Presidential collusion. It enables an indictment of the political target, in the court of public opinion, while providing plausible deniability of political motivation. The true nature of the investigation is revealed; however, when adversaries of the political target set aside the investigation's unactionable findings to pursue their own investigations.

FISA has changed substantially since its inception. It's now the political sword of Damocles.

(which witch hunt)

Auto-correct didn't know which witch is which in context.

don't believe everything you read or hear

"Well that was based on the US House Intelligence that released a couple thousand ads that did actually run."

I get that. What I'm sayin', essentially, is just cuz it comes to you by way of FB don't mean it's true. Yeah, you ought to question any- and every-thing comin' to you from government, but I was talkin' about not takin' at face value all that propaganda/advertising on FB or twitter or wikipedia or, well, from any place (or one).

The 12 year old is still wrappin' his head around the idea that the shiny interesting thing he just saw on tv probably isn't as shiny or fun as the commercial makes it out to be. On one level he gets that someone is tryin' to sell him sumthin', but on another, trusting, level he thinks 'they wouldn't lie/mislead me!'.

I think a lot of folks do this: they wisely get that propaganda exists, but foolishly believe the source they favor isn't a propaganda dump.

Me: it's all mindscrew...my default: you're a lyin' sack till I verfy otherwise. Nuthin' wrong with bein' a lyin' sack, by the way, if you're lyin' ways benefit me.

LOL. Aye-aye chief

Yes, that's exactly my point. Not another investigation of Trump, a special council to investigate how and when the Mueller independent council was launched.

William Barr, Lindsey Graham, Donald Trump, Devin Nunes and a few million citizens would like some more information on this. You wouldn't deny the American people transparency, would you? Of course this is all crazy talk. We know how the Mueller investigation was launched by the testimony of those involved. They wouldn't lie, would they?

All this is just ridiculous, I know. But with all this investigation going on, what's the harm? Just for giggles? If you've got nothing to hide you have nothing to be concerned with, right?

Thats been going on years and I doubt it will ever stop....

Toad,

Don't know if you're laughin' at my presentation, content, or 'me', but: I'm glad to be the one bringin' joy to such a fine, up-standin' citizen... :thumbsup:


Slang,

Exactly right: in light of the various clams made by so many ('the evidence for collusion is obvious'), claims not supported by The Report, seems 'we' need to dig a little into 'why' everyone was so certain Trump was a filthy traitor to Truth, Justice, & The American Way.

Let's investigate the hell out if it!

There's got to be at least two years of mileage we can squeeze outta some thing like that.

Great, I'll just rip up my voter reg card and move out of the country.

Sure, pull everything into an active investigation and silence all those subpena'd by fear of obstruction of justice.

Oh I thought your point was made to me instead of to the average Facebook reader, sorry.

example russian ad from slate

https://cellar.org/img/russianblmfromslate.jpg

Slang,

I think we're well past obstruction with some of these folks...enough has been said and written by them that testimony would just be gravy on an already tasty bowl of rice.


Toad,

I was talkin' to any one who cared to read.

The ad: that's an example of the vast subverting power of Russia? I can see 14 year olds gettin' all lathered up over it, but adults? C'mon, if that's viable 'interference' that actually moved anyone, then my low opinion of the average person is too damn high.

And: if such tame material actually motivates folks in large numbers then, all is lost (and probably has been for a long time).

If 'that' is sufficient to move folks then mebbe the commies are right: folks really and truly need to ruled and directed, cuz, plainly, the lot are too stupid to see after themselves.

Not that one ad, but similar ads, day after day, hundreds of them, have an effect. Not causing mobs in the street, that's not the intention, they are designed to keep picking at the scab over past racism grievances.

"hundreds of them"
 

hundreds, thousands, millions: makes no difference

stop watchin' commercials

It's not commercials to stop watching it's not that obvious.

Absolutely not. Investigate on. Benghazi the hell out of it. Just don't complain at the investigation of the people who started the Benghazi investigation. It's been tit-for-tat since Watergate.

Watergate's Woodward: FBI, CIA Handling Of Dossier "Needs To Be Investigated"

The Steele Dossier, which may have been ( read was ) used to trigger this whole witch hunt looks a bit like garbage. And everyone involved knew it was before the Mueller probe began.

Say it isn't so Bob. The FBI and the CIA might be weaponized against Trump? Looks like we may need another special council. :yesnod:

Looks like Mr. Schumer knows a bit about how things work if you aren't onboard with the government's agenda. Not the People's agenda, the government's

All sorts of things could happen to you

"It's not commercials to stop watching it's not that obvious."
 

It's ads, yeah?

Sounds like 'commercials' to me.

I don't do facebook but, seems to me, if it comes unbidden to your 'page' or 'feed' then it's advertising; and if it's sumthin' you subscribe to then, at least a little bit, it's on you for willy-nilly invitin' mind-screwers into your 'home'.

Any way: when I think 'interference', I think of muckin' around with actual voting (dead people votin', machines hacked, intentional miscounts, illegal aliens votin', the DNC riggin' the nomination so the guy most dems apparently want is pushed aside to give the nod to the gal most dems apparently don't want, etc.)

Whacky extremist me: I don't see how ads, commercials, etc. constitute interference.

"The Steele Dossier"
 

Yes, the great thorn, the grand embarrassment, the boil on don's tush: now it's being labled as russian misinformation.

If a russian fabrication: how was it supposed to hurt clinton and help trump?

Seems to me steele's book report was designed (mebbe by russia) to do the opposite.

So, if this...

"The clandestine influence campaign involved the Internet Research Agency "troll farm" creating thousands of social media accounts that impersonated Americans supporting radical groups, planning and promoting rallies, and reached millions of social media users between 2013 and 2017. According to criminal indictments by the Special Counsel, those messages and activities "spread distrust towards the candidates and the political system in general", for example by discouraging African Americans from voting or by motivating conservative voters wary of Trump."

...was the case, and the steele novella was a russian fiction, then mebbe the point wasn't to generate favor for a candidate but merely to *wreck shit™.

If so: what does this say about americans that **our heads are so easily turned by shallow bamboozlement?










*always a good thing, even when the benefit to me is not up-front

**not me

Because you were looking for somebody to wreck shit while most Americans want someone who won't. That's a much harder quest.

"Because you were looking for somebody to wreck shit while most Americans want someone who won't. That's a much harder quest."

I was lookin' for a very specific kind of wrecker to go to town on a select grade of crap: much harder than pickin' the smoothest talker, most convincing liar, or least offensive parasite.

Well he is special, he said so. :haha:

"Well he is special"
 

Yep: a rare kind of blunt instrument.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Seriously henry. What is wrong with your brain? You're a laughable caricature. An easily dismissed idiot. You present as a dyed-in-the-wool nutcase/Commie. So much so that completely ignoring your whackadoodle arguments is an obvious no-brainer.

I'd ask why you hate America, but the answer is, you're just a mental midget with a bent for anarchy. Do you honestly expect anyone to take you seriously?

:crazy:

I hear Stormfront is looking for new recruits.

Well I can see your perspective, but I can't dismiss Henry as just a nut case, simply because there's over a hundred million Americans who agree with him to some degree.
I'm sure he loves his family, not likely to kick puppies, and probably hates his job like most people. Might even be... dare I say it... a nice guy... just misguided. :haha:

Misguided Unconventional seems to be winning the day.

So, because I favor proxies instead of rulers, and true free enterprise instead of state capitalism/socialism, and because I understand gettin' those things won't happen through 'voting', I'm: "a laughable caricature, An easily dismissed idiot, a dyed-in-the-wool nutcase/Commie, a mental midget with a bent for anarchy."

An interesting, though misinformed (perhaps prejudiced) take, glen.

My suggestion: ignore me (as I will you).

##

"I can't dismiss Henry as just a nut case, simply because there's over a hundred million Americans who agree with him to some degree."

Not really, no.

But, please, dismiss me, bruce (as I've dismissed you, for a very long time).

Dismissing you would be like dismissing a canary in a coal mine, you might give us a heads up when the revolution happens. :D

you're on your own, buddy
 

:neutral:

Aw c'mon, not even a hint?

don't worry your lil head about such things, just keep doin' what you're doin'...
 

obey, consume, conform, and sleep

I do well on the consume, fair on the sleep, not very well on the conform at all.
As for obey, not across the board. Things like drive on the right side of the road I obey, I've got no problem with shit that makes sense.
Other things like paint the house or mow the lawn, homey don't play dat. I buck city hall more than would be smart, but some things I can't accept and willing to suffer the consequences for being a thorn in their butt.
They'll always win, but not always get what they want.

I have some relatives from Tx that have developed great ways of conforming within the law but making TheMan somehow unhappy with their compliance. It's a life skill. :)

Sometimes TheMan re-writes the laws just to stick it to them. Very often they have another course adjustment in the wings just waiting for the that next re-write. Always thinking ahead.

They are simple living blue collar millionaires that keep a big budget for legal "expenses". I know that they have TVs but a good portion of their entertainment time is spent thinking through ways to make TheMan look silly and impotent.

Your description of your micro rebellion with city hall makes me smile.

Makes me think we might be distant relatives too.

Do you have any roots in Tx? Uncle Bruce?

Nope, New England Yankees, immigrants from England in 1630 and Scotland around 1910.
Drove across I-40 one time, got a cousin that moved to Spring, worked at a salt water cooled power plant by Houston for a few weeks, and another plant over near the LA border.
Got a friend in Rowlett who shows up at my house every New Years Eve, a good friend I've never met in Weatherford, and I know of a hot babe in Austin.
Oh, and I got athletes foot at an East Texas motel.
That's all for Texas.

profile of a good citizen
 

"I do well on the consume, fair on the sleep, not very well on the conform at all. As for obey, not across the board. Things like drive on the right side of the road I obey, I've got no problem with shit that makes sense. Other things like paint the house or mow the lawn, homey don't play dat. I buck city hall more than would be smart, but some things I can't accept and willing to suffer the consequences for being a thorn in their butt. They'll always win, but not always get what they want."

:zzz: