MacBookPro or What?
 

Hello all, my daughter is a teacher and is looking to get a new "real computer"
She asked me and I realized that there is no better group to ask than those here....

Her situation in her own words:

As my dad said, I am a teacher. I'll be using this for creating Word documents, creating PowerPoint presentations, emailing, researching... a majority of this computer will help me complete my work tasks. In the rare free time I do have, I like watching videos online or playing the sims. The computer I have at work is a PC, if that means anything. I currently have a HP HDX series from 2008/9 and I have never owned a Mac but have been looking into one.

It must have an operating system that is NOT windows 8.
It must have i7 quad core processor (haswell).
I like the retina display (or equivalent).
I'd like the nvidia graphics but it's not a must have.

Before you commit to a Mac, go into an Apple Store and ask to see a demonstration
of the Mac "mavericks" operating system, and in particular a demonstration
of the Mac software called "Pages" and "Numbers" and "Keynote"

"Pages" is now the Apple replacement for MS Word
"Numbers" is now the Apple replacement for MS Excel
"Keynote" is also new, but I have not looked into it yet
... it may be a replacement for PowerPoint (or something else)

I have only been working with this new system for a month or so,
and after having been a Macfanatic since the mid-80's,
I have to say I am truly disappointed in these new versions of software.

:sniff:

They are essentially "dumbed down" equivalents of what
used to be a completely cross-platform system.
For example, Pages does not even open an RTF file format.

I know Apple is heavy into the school systems, but it looks to me as though Apple is
on the road toward abandoning the lay-public's desk-top computers, in favor of iPhones and iPads
... or the heavy duty machines for professionals who have $4K-$6K for image- and/or music-editing software.

I feel quite traitorous in say all this, but I am truly unimpressed
by the Mac desk top offerings this year.

I know that anything written on my iMac could not be viewed on a PC.

Macs work well with Office 2011
 

Hello,

You get an educational discount and you can pick up Microsoft Office 2011 for free or a significant discount since you are a teacher. I know for a fact that Temple University students get a free copy of Office each year.

The only MacBook Pro that will meet your needs is the 15". With the new Mac OS, it's really stupendously fast. It will run real Microsoft Office 2011, which is also quite good (I run this program).

We have a lot of doctors at work with Macbook Airs and Macbook Pros. They run Office 2011. It handles any documents we can throw at it, and some Office 2010 cannot. They love Office on their machines and we have very few complaints from the Mac users.

I'm sorry, but the built-in iWork apps, iCal, and Mail are not good. I would not use them in a Windows and Mac shop. The only time I touch iWork apps is to use Keynote on my iPad for class notes. Otherwise, they're not good. Office 2011 on the Mac is actually more full featured than Office 2013 on the Surface RT tablets.

Any of the newer non-Apple laptops out there won't run Windows 7 well. They're optimized for Windows 8 and 8.1. Plus, the power-saving features of Haswell require the OS to support it. The only two OSes that support them well now are Windows 8.1 and OS X 10.9.

I would speak with your school IT people and get those discounts. They are not insignificant, esp. considering that the nVidia-equipped MacBook Pro runs about $2500. It would be a waste to run a Haswell laptop with Windows 7 in more ways than one.

Just as an aside: you mention using powerpoint, and it made me wonder if you've come across, or tried out the Prezi.com cloud based presenting system yet?

I started using it about a year ago for my classes and presentations. So much easier to use than powerpoint. And all stored on the cloud, so I don't have to carry pen drives about with me - I just log in on the class computer.

Bit of a bastard if the net goes down...but much smoother experience overall and much nicer looking presentations.

Completely free to use unless you want the premium service - I've never felt the need m'self :)

prezi
 

I have seen it in use at a conference.

I've never used it.

It does look really cool.

All you need is a modern browser.

I may actually try to format a few presentations on it to try it out. Now I have a reason.

I couldn't reply unless I registered, daughter of classicman here. I probably should have mentioned that I strongly dislike the tile system of windows 8. If there was a way to disable that, I probably wouldn't hate windows 8 as much. I went to a best buy store and experimented on the mac doesn't seem to be that much of a difference with a pc. Is MacBookPro the way to go?

mbpark: Can you still purchase 2011 office? If so, where do you look?

DanaC: I have used prezi for actual presentations. I use microsoft powerpoint to make some types of worksheets or packets for my students. Prezi, when used correctly, can make your presentations much more professional looking.

Here's where to look
 

Christine,

You can get it at two places:

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/...ctID.253736200

http://www.journeyed.com/item/Micros...intosh/1534115

Office 365 is $100/year for a subscription to get Office 2011:Mac anyway, so I wouldn't go for it.

Talk with your school district's IT department. You may have a Home Use program where you get it for a lot less (potentially free) as an employee.

You can disable the Start Menu in Windows 8.1 and replace it with a third-party program, but the problem is you can't make it go completely away. One swipe of the touchpad or screen and you're right back at it.

In terms of Mac laptops, until they come out with a Retina MacBook Air, the Pro is the best choice. It's really fast, and will last a few years. Right now, it's the best portable they have.

"Open Office by Apache" is awesome, FWIW. Its basically microsoft office for free.

The only hassle is making sure I save docs properly so others can open them.

The only issue I have with OpenOffice is that it munges my powerpoints worse than Keynote.

Otherwise, it's a good program IF you are willing to put up with the warts.

I still use it for document recovery as it beats Office or the tools hands down.

Yeah, I've had major problems with powerpoint files in OpenOffice. Unrecoverable problems that forced me to find a computer with real PowerPoint on it just so I could get the data I needed. Other than that, I've been happy.

I am so glad that I have not upgraded (downgraded?) to Maverics, I own a Macbook pro, 2009 and am very happy with it. I run MS Office as well as pages, keynote and the Excel look alike. I have been able to get them all to work together.

It sounds to me like a computer from a place like Tiger Dircect would be just what you need. I just bought my son a computer for 800.00 bucks, windows 7 NOT windows 8, 17" with a kickin video card lots of storage and 8Gig of ram, and a Core I7 chip. Can't beat it. I'd skip the mac for now unless they are going to fix their op system problems. I don't think they are going to quit the market for computers, but most of their desk tops and good puters are being used by graphics folks, movie makers and others who need lots of computing power, good graphics detail and the ability to put in 16 GIG of RAM.

What ever you buy, it is worth it to get the square trade full warranty just in case. It's as good as Apple's warranty. I've had just about every removable part changed on my Mac with no questions asked.

Hope that helps.

Thanks all. OK, so the discussion has progressed to what computer, if not a mac, would you recommend?

another Mac !

Requirements sound like a laptop might be too much. A tablet with a keyboard option may be sufficient.

It's about just using it....
 

For many years, I built my own systems and used them.

Then I got to the point where I was helping manage a few thousand.

Simplicity is better. Really. Especially with laptops.

Apple's outright nailed it and has for years with the whole package. I've had Apple laptops, iPads, and three iphones in the past ten years, in addition to Dell and Lenovo hardware.

Wireless on anything other than an Apple device has been a PITA. Yes, this included Network Manager on the Ubuntu laptops I had with full Linux support. Windows was an outright nightmare for it until 8. Power management always worked well on Apple devices. Windows has improved, but you need to be on 8.1 with Haswell to get to the same level Apple was at in 2003. Linux is still hit and miss.

I can open an Apple laptop and be working in less than 30 seconds. I cannot say the same for Windows 7, even with an SSD drive. Windows 8 and 8.1 fixed this. Too bad people don't put start menu programs on it. After all, every OEM hacked the crap out of wireless to make it work in previous versions. I didn't see a difference :).

When I go into class, the majority of devices are Apple. They just work.

Thanks all, will pass on to her.

Talking about Apple laptops and not mentioning price is like...

like...

oh I used to be so good at metaphors

Like saying "let them eat cake"? ;)

MacBookPro or What?
 

What.

People pay the price Apple laptops because they want to. It's a premium brand, like Starbucks, BMW, or Alienware.

Microsoft is doing a good job of advertising and driving people toward them.

I can buy a $300 Dell Venue tablet at the Microsoft Store with Win8.1 and the ability to run legacy apps or a $700 iPad at the Apple Store. Which one is bereft of people, and which one is full of them?

If the Ford/Chevolet fight must continue...apples and oranges

How is MS Surface doing ?

People really hate that Win8 that you love so well.

(I prod the mbpark because I respect him)

No, but the point is, any discussion of Apple laptops must include price. The MBPro with retina display is surely the finest laptop you can buy. And if you want a 15" one, you're going to pay at least $2K, when a Dell 15 can be had for $400.

Now if it's an important tool and your career depends on it, yeah awright. A case can be made.

(I'm different, I would go for a Chromebook and really save bux. That's just me though.)

I know they hate Win8
 

UT,

I know it's universally reviled because of the user interface.

Doesn't change that it's the first OS Microsoft put out with working wireless. Unfortunately, the newer OEM HW uses it, and there's no way to go back without crippling the hardware on laptops or tablets. Microsoft has tied the power management to the hardware too much.

Apple is a price premium brand, and people know it.

The people that I deal with use them for work or school. They depend on them heavily. To them it is a smaller opportunity cost than the cost of lost work or classwork. Microsoft has done great advertising for Apple on many fronts.

You or I can deal with a Chromebook, but your average user cannot.

I am not an Apple fan; so, even considering buying their laptop was a huge. I'm not sure I care what brand it is as long as it has the components I want and is easy to use.

So why is a tablet insufficient?

Tablet is not an option. It's far too small. I need a screen that I can do my work on. I'm constantly using the half screen window option with two windows open to do my work. As far as I know, tablets cannot do that. Correct me if I'm wrong but so far Mac has been the only option that users have said will work for me but that it is pricey. So what would be an equivalent option in PC based on what I need that's been stated in previous posts?

The link below is a search at newegg.com that restricts the resolution to 1920x1080 and above; uses only Win 7 varieties; and specifies only Core i7.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Home%20Premium

The HP Elitebooks are basically HP trying to copy Apple, with the thin brushed aluminum and light weight.

You may not enjoy The Sims experience on Mac.

UT, the link you provided has prices that are essentially the same
as Apple's MacBookPro (which seem to be just under $2K)

Since it appears from her postings that she wants to go with Mac's,
what are the advantages you are trading in the same price range with HP's.

Our family's experience with HP's is not good, but I'm willing to say that may just be in our family.
We've had 4 HP's and each one has been in the repair shop after a couple of years.

The $1300 HP is comparable to the $2000 Mac, the $2200 HP is comparable to the $2500 Mac. IMO. The Mac advantage is resolution and the PC advantage is compatibility.

HPs break and so do Macs.

Also, the numbers on this one are highly swayed by the No-Win8 restriction. Without that, here's a Toshiba for $850 that also has a 1TB hard drive.

A quick glance at some reliability numbers says that Samsung, Toshiba, ASUS and Lenovo are on par with Apple wrt reliability. HP is one tier down, but you never know: they have made entire lines of shitty budget systems that are only sent to Walmart.

I realize I don't know the ins an outs of computer repairs and reliability,
and maybe this overview is clouded by particular models (Walmart specials, etc)
But my family's experience with Mac's does fit with this table.
(I'm shifting over to a new Mac now only because I'm getting warnings from various websites
that my OS 10.4.11 and Firefox browser might not going be supported in the future.

Attachment 46392

:redcard: I'll stop my Chev/Ford debate now

I give some weight to that report, but this is a measurement of people who decided to use this particular third-party repair service, as opposed to just using AppleCare, some other warranty service, or DIY fixes.

I saw another report that said a good fifth of problems reported are OS-related (i.e., more than likely to be user error or confusion) and another fifth are hard drive (i.e., should be almost equal across all non-SSD systems).

Also, I say again, the Walmart HPs are the shittiest laptops you can find. Walmart shoppers are infinitely more likely to create PEBKAC errors, use their laptops to hold up short table legs, etc. How many of those warranty repairs are for shitboxes, and how many for EliteBooks? Don't know...

My guess is that it's kind of like cars: if you maintain your system, know how to use it, and don't drop it, most comparable systems are going to fail at similar rates. Apple doesn't use magical hard drives and memory in its laptops. They use the same components everyone else does. They even make amateur fan routing mistakes -- and, sadly, fix them via software.

:D
I hadn't thought of that... I'll try it with my old iMac

On my homemade, xp box that was installed in 2007 and never rebuilt, but needs it. Most errors are the id10t kind.Think your getting a bargain at wally, Huh.

I would never trust HP. They can't even get their servers right. Why expect them to get consumer hardware?

Apple does more handholding with the customers, which is something the PC vendors (and the Microsoft store), don't.

Four computers in this house in 15 yrs.

Collectively, still under $1500.

Wait, the one cost $800. Still under $2000, though.