Dear Mr. Obama
 

Ya'll, here's a great video message to Mr Obama. It shows how a lot of us feel who have spent time in Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

McCain got a D rating on Veterans issues from the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America. Barack Obama got a B+. Also the 10,000 IAVA were allowed to deliver a report to Barack Obama, but McCain turned them away.

The guy in your video represents a tiny minority of veterans. Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq.

I'm a Desert Storm vet. These scores are backwards. Obama would actually get an F from me. McCain is an admirable hero.

You are in the minority. McCain voted against increased veterans benefits every chance he got.

http://ivaw.org

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com

http://www.iava.org

http://votevets.org

Radar,

I served 2 combat tours. I know how the soldiers I served with feel. We strongly support the war against terror in Iraq because we know we forced AQ to expend their manpower and money in their own backyard, thus keeping them from executing attacks on our homes.

Basically, my knowledge is first-hand while you are relying on anti-war group rhetoric.

It turns out you aren't the only Iraqi vet, and the majority are against the war in Iraq.

I am also a vet and the MAJORITY of all combat vets, especially those who went to Iraq, are against the war in Iraq and the so-called "war on terror" because they know Al Queda had nothing to do with Iraq, that they aren't defending America by being in Iraq, and that the American government lied to the American people about Iraq posing a danger.

Most vets, myself included, would die defending America if it were attacked, but would be furious at their government if it sent them into battle unnecessarily, illegally, and against a non-threat. Most would rather have their blood shed only when absolutely necessary and when it is in the defense of America. This is the very least America owes to American service men & women.

Sarge you served two tours, one kosovo and I guess the other in Iraq, so you know what happened there, and I believe you know how your peers feel about the war.

But when you say, "we know we forced AQ to expend their manpower and money in their own backyard, thus keeping them from executing attacks on our homes.", you're repeating pro-war rhetoric. I believe, you believe it, but that doesn't make it fact.

How in hell would you "know" what AQ would or would not do? Or even what their capability to do, is? All you "know", is what they did seven years ago, with the capabilities they had then. It appears even our Military Intel and the CIA, isn't quite sure of what AQ can do, or even who AQ consists of.

If you use the Bush/Pentagon method of labeling all the "bad guys" AQ, it ups their strength and numbers on paper, but it's a lot more complicated than that. There's a shitload of different groups that hate us(U.S.) for various reasons, and even more that want to use us as the bogey man to achieve their own ends.

Fortunately for us, and the rest of the world, these groups can't seem to work together for more than a short time... probably because they are in a constant internal power struggle, of/with people that have different objectives.

Personally, I think we should have been finishing the job in Afghanistan, instead of fucking around in Iraq, but I also realize we broke it and have a responsibility to try and fix it, as much as the people of Iraq will allow us to. But like I said, that's just my:2cents:

I don't claim to be the only OIF vet on the site. Once again my opinions are based upon my own experiences and membership in such groups as the VFW and the IWVO. Radar, it looks like we have very different opinions & neither of us will change the others mind

Bruce - I'll send you a pm

Two minutes at the Military Times site turned up this poll. For our fellow critical thinkers:

Active duty poll, end of 07 (you would certainly expect more favorable numbers today):

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/20...epoll_iraq.php

9) Should the U.S. have gone to war in Iraq?
Yes No No opinion Decline to answer

They labeled themselves AQ. bin Laden labeled them AQ in an audio tape, if you believe he's alive and made audio tapes. bin Laden said Iraq is where the battle is, if you believe he's alive and made audio tapes.

Thousands upon thousands of hardass foreign fighters entered Iraq just for the chance to blow up some infidels. Not AQ? I guess -- AQ doesn't hand out membership cards. But also, we are not at war with AQ. We're at war with radical Islamists (but we can't SAY we're at war with radical Islamists). When they design to kill us, anything that discourages them or kills them, without making more of them, is a good thing.

And because a lot of them have been killed.

Radar

This whole Iraqi vet claim of yours is new to me. Please elaborate on your "service there. When/why were you there?

I'd have thought that would have made it to your bio - somewhere above the casino craps dealer certainly.
I would bet my last dollar that a "Award Winning Libertarian Activist" (Your Quote - see profile) Would have certainly made a stand and refused to fight in this this this.... how did you put it? link oh yeah "illegal invasion of Iraq."

I didn't say I was an Iraqi combat vet. I'm a vet, but not a combat vet, and I got out of the Navy just before the 1st gulf war. I said he's not the only Iraqi combat vet and that most Iraqi combat vets are against the war in Iraq.

Pay attention to what I'm actually saying.

You are correct in your assumption that I'd have enough honor, integrity, and courage to refuse the unlawful order to take part in an invasion of Iraq when they posed no danger to our own company and there was no formal declaration of war. Unlike those who went to Iraq, I actually took my oath seriously.

For the record, anyone who claims Americans blatantly unconstitutional (aka illegal) invasion of Iraq by American soldiers from 1991 to the present is anything but completely illegal is a blithering idiot.

A shitload of what the Pentagon were calling "AQ", battling us in Iraq, said they are not AQ, they are Iraqis. They then joined with the U.S. Coalition in defeating the other ones the Pentagon had labeled AQs.

Using "AQ" as a blanket title for Islamic radicals is OK, as long as people realize it's not a stable, cohesive, easily targeted group. In reality, the radical Islamists are dozens, maybe hundreds, of groups in constant flux. They're making and breaking alliances constantly, with each leader trying to accomplish his own agenda. The only thing they really have in common is using hate-the-Infidels as a recruiting/rallying point.

Its hard to take the little bit of something useful out of all the propaganda, sorry.

I'm straightforward, honest, and clear about everything I say. Perhaps you're having a tough time because you can't discern truth from propaganda. I always tell the truth. If you mistake anything I say for propaganda, it shows a problem with your perception, not with my message.

Your interpretation of "truth" is not the same as mine and that's ok with me. Your one vote means no more or less than mine - we are equal in that regard no matter how distasteful you find it.

The mere fact that you think the truth is an "interpretation" proves that you don't know the meaning of the word "truth". But that's ok, most Republicans don't.

Radar's in fine form today. Those rapscallion republicans don't stand a chance.:rolleyes:

How long have you been waiting to use the word "rapscallion" in a sentence?

LOL

"most vets"? or "most vets radar meets at his extreme libertarian rant meetings"?

I have to say Big Sarge, I don't support the war in Iraq and I want it to be finished. I think its a mire and will be very difficult to minimize the damage to US/Islam relations (that were already horrible enough). Unfortunately, at this point, I believe limiting our military presence is the best option, and supporting the new country in other ways (generalization sorry). Not only is it a drain on our resources, the longer we stay the more of those people who welcomed our presence will begin to resent it. I supported taking Hussein out, and believe he deserved what he got, but I'm not sure we took the best path to do that. Perhaps we acted to rash out of our fear of attack. I will always support the troops. Just because I don't support a military action I feel was made based on lies and emotion, does not mean I don't love and support our people who are doing their best for our country. It is that same love and support that makes it my responsibility to try to bring them home.

Radar - I was checking on some things you said & I'm confused. Please help me to understand.

"McCain got a D rating on Veterans issues from the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans of America. Barack Obama got a B+. Also the 10,000 IAVA were allowed to deliver a report to Barack Obama, but McCain turned them away".

Where did you come up with the number 10,000? The IVAW states there were only 2 squads of 25 each that led a march of 10,000. This number also included Rage Against the Machine and Flobots. The so called report was a message calling for the "Immediate withdrawal, full veterans benefits, and reparations for the Iraqi people" (IVAW website).

"The guy in your video represents a tiny minority of veterans. Most vets are against McCain, especially those who served in Vietnam and Iraq."

If we accept your total of 10,000 veterans being against the war, you must consider that is less than 0.7% of the app. 1.7 million troops who have served in OIF & OEF. Troop strengths are based upon reporting on the VoteVets, IVAW, and IAVA sites.

Maybe you can help me to understand?

MTP - it is not a mire. We have made significant success following the troop surge. Even Obama has admitted the troop surge was a success.

This Iraq Veterans Against the War is an interesting group!!! By reading their own posted profiles, I have identified a national board member and 4 regional directors who state they never served in Iraq. Now how can they be leaders of a legitimate Iraq veterans group??

You can't win an occupation. You can't win an illegal war and anyone who says the war in Iraq is not only a fucking retard, they are a traitor.

The troops surge did nothing and changed nothing. Whether America leaves Iraq in a month or in 50 years, the moment we leave, they will break out into civil war. We had no legitimate reason to have a single American solder at any time in history; this includes the illegal war in 1991, the 12 subsequent years of bombing Iraq daily, creating illegal no-fly zones, kicking down doors to homes, locking people up in prisons when they didn't do so much as jay walking, and then torturing them, searching the country, etc.

At no point has there ever been a legitimate or legal reason for an armed American soldier to be in Iraq.

Meanwhile, the backyard in Pakistan is growing. And the Taliban is fighting back in Afghanistan, much like the way they fought USSR and USSR's puppets back in the 1980's. I wonder why Russia was not joining the coalition, even for just revenge?

Meanwhile, good job in Iraq, but it's not the point. Al Qaeda and the Taliban is working on a bigger prize: nuclear Pakistan. The Taliban already have a huge support in Pakistan, after all the Taliban originated there, with help from the army. Osama and the Taliban, I believe, still rely on contacts from the Pakistani army who is supposed to fight them. Iraq meanwhile, turned into a most successful diversion in the war on terror, even if they didn't dream of it themselves.

al-Qaeda made the mistake of treating the civilians in regions they used to control harshly. That was the real start of the Awakening.

But Radar, I'm still confused about your IVAW source. I'm still hoping you can help me to understand. Is it truly an occupation when the legitimately elected government wants you there until they are able to achieve SASE (safe & secure environment.

I sure don't want to be a traitor. I hope you lead me to enlightenment. BTW, how long did you serve in the Navy?

BS, I actually linked to several sites. Membership in the various veterans groups against the war in Iraq are in the hundreds of thousands.

Alright, I'm calling your hand on this Radar! Back up your statement with membership numbers for the veterans groups against Iraq War.

As usual you are WRONG AGAIN. A, I am a registered independent and B, not only are there many interpretations of "truths", but someone as educated as you claim to be would certainly realize there are differing definitions of the word.

Radar - the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America does not have any statements identifying their organization as being against OIF. Their mission statement: Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America is the nation's first and largest group dedicated to the Troops and Veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the civilian supporters of those Troops and Veterans. IAVA is an independent organization and is not affiliated with any groups other than our sister (c)4, IAVA Action Fund

I can't find anything suggesting they are anti-war. Once again, I hope you can enlighten me. Geez, this whole traitor thing you are talking about really has me worried

Radar, Oh, Radar - I've been checking out this Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain. I can't find anything where they are against the Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Where are you finding these hundreds of thousands Iraq War veterans against OIF??

You're kind of slow, aren't you Big Sarge? Radar is a genius. He doesn't have to find hundreds of thousands of people because he has conquered the concept of extrapolation. that means he can take small amounts of data and build it out into a huge case proving our stupidity. Here watch:

Radar comes into contact with 100 veterans during a given month. 78 of those vets support the war so they are unamerican idiots and don't count. 7 more voted for Bush, the worst president evaar!, so they're out. the next 8 argued with him about the constitutionality of border enforcement so he shot them (it's ok, he says its allowed), so they're definitely out. That leaves seven veterans who can be counted for the purposes of the study. 6 think McCain is an asshat and one was sleeping so was unable to answer.

That means that nearly 100% of all veterans oppose John McCain.

Thanks lookout. I was just having fun digging into some of his sources & then rubbing his nose in it.

I sure would like to meet Radar & discuss some of these things face to face. He must be a fascinating person. Not too long ago his profile identified his occupation as a law school representative. Now he is director of information technology.

I don't remember that. AFAIK Radar has always been a computer geek except when he was pursuing the hot dog cart thing.

Radar?

He had, and maybe still has, a small business selling home school supplies. But I never heard of him having anything to do with law school.

There was the hot dog stand, and the run for congress, and the school supply business, and now the IT gig, but I don't recall a law school in there.

Through it all, he's still been Radar here on the Cellar. He gets more intense during election years.

Radar, I think you should re-enlist in the Military. Preferably the Army or the Marines. Then after you make it to your permanent party assignment, when ordered to Iraq, you should tell your commander that you have just received an unlawful order to participate in an illegal war. Oh, you should also threaten to kill him and his staff because they are traitors. I promise that I will come and visit you at your next duty station: Disciplinary Barracks, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

I work direct across the street from the VA and next door to the veterans cemetery you ignorant dickhead. I come into contact with ve1ts daily and they are overwhelmingly against the war in Iraq. Iraqi vets are also mostly against it, but a lot of them are committing suicide.

The Hot Dog Cart was an idea I was thinking about doing. The Homeschool supply store was in progress, but California basically made homeschooling all but illegal. I've always been in I.T.

The Law School thing was between consulting gigs, so was bar tending. You do what you must to pay the bills.

The Hot Dog Cart is still a great idea.

Well the several vets I know personally are all in favor, therefore all vets are in favor of it. I'll use the same extrapolation method as you. See how silly it is now?







I didn't think so - oh well.

Let's see, thousands and thousands of vets are members of various anti-Iraq war coalitions, I meet dozens of vets every week, I am a vet, I have hundreds of friends that are vets, and you....know a few guys.

OK, is this the part where I'm supposed to say that I come in daily contact with active duty military by the dozens and they overwhelmingly support the mission so therefore all vets, past and present, obviously and overwhelmingly, support the mission.

radar i'm simply stating that you are using the anecdotal evidence from the vets you speak with (who more than likely have other similarities with you) and putting that information out there as if it represented the majority of veterans. it's just ridiculous.

now this is the part where you can call me a stupid poopyhead who can't read.

poopyhead. Wow, before I used that term "poopyhead" I had no idea how it would insult and generaly sicken the Drill Sergeant portion of my brain. Thanks, cock.

Thanks - that was my point which apparently got missed or ignored - whatever.

What are you thanking Radar for?

I just couldn't use the term "Pooooo" man I can't even type it, again. I was just lashing out in a very knuckle dragging way, and making a joke. Mostly, just making a joke. :D

Explain why every American general who led men in Iraq and then retired said the war was wrong; a waste of American treasure. That video could have been replayed word for word in Nam. Everything said in that video was also said in Nam. And what do we know? That was why the Pentagon Papers were so earth shattering and why government so fears their release. All that same rhetoric was used during Nam and exposed as misguided lies by the Pentagon Papers.

No matter how many die in a worthy cause, the cause is a lie when the leadership violates every basic military principle even defined 2500 years ago. It is a shame how many good people were wasted only for the greater glory of George Jr (Cheney). Then shame is compounded when those people don't learn from the mistake.

Worse - the only justified war was all but surrendered by the same president. Even more treasures must be scarified to correct a mental midget's mistake made in late 2002 and early 2003. More good Americans must be wasted only because the same leaders who invented Saddam's WMDs also surrendered Afghanistan back to the Taliban.

Shame on those who so hate America as to not see how many times George Jr (Cheney) has harmed America. You were supposed to have learned these simple lessons from Nam. Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. No open criticism of the mental midget president means American is doomed to make the same mistake in another 30 years.

Then why are your post still so long?






JUST KIDDING - sorta :3eye:

Excellent post.

I see my fellow friends Big Sarge and Regular Joe are getting a good introduction into the thinking process of Radar. Tell him you are against illegal immigration, he loves that subject.

Bush and the neo-cons did learn from Nam: they learn to ignore all naysayers, especially those natives and state officials who claim that they killed villagers; to torture torture, and torture some more, especially the innocent (worked for the Chinese), build the country until it makes a $75 billion surplus while the US is at a $500 billion deficit; stretch the National Guard and the Army Core of Engineers so far that basic things such as; oh roads and highways crumble here in the states; and if all else fails, blame the above the law mercenaries (though as I recall, al-Qaeda started as a mercenary group).

BTDT no thanks.

Letters from Ayman al Zawahiri (AQ 2nd in cmd) to AQ in Iraq leaders:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...om_al_qaed.php

nah - no progress there:eyebrow:

Well ya see, religion is involved. Thats why its a mire. BUT I LOVE men in uniform...RFN and NSFW threads could use some more pics always.

Sarge - The only thing your video was missing was the "Paid for by McCain '08 Campaign" logo on the bottom.

Yes, they are there. But Abu Ayyub al Masri and Abu Omar al Baghdadi, aren't in control/command of all the opposition to the U.S.(coalition) in Iraq.
My point is, even though the Pentagon seems to want to lump them all together, there are different groups with different agendas, in the fray, and their alliances seem to shift frequently.
If a bunch of them hadn't gotten fed up with AQ's abuse of civilians, and joined with the U.S. in routing the AQs, the surge would have been fruitless.