11/22/2002: The Petersburg Orchid
 

http://cellar.org/2002/pburgorchid.jpg

This is a Petersburg Orchid, a toy breed of dog that weighs in at about 4 pounds and costs around $1000. In Russia.

It's a new breed, possibly a mix of a yorkie and a stalk of broccoli.

It's been one of Yahoo!s Most Popular images this week, which probably indicates that a lot of people saw the thumbnail and just had to see what the hell it was.

The nice thing about this turn of events is that the Russians are becoming interested in small dogs specifically because they are bourgoise. In the Communist USSR, only larger dogs were in favor. Now a dog can be something that only returns love and doesn't have to be a working dog.

http://cellar.org/2002/pburgorchid2.jpg

I'll stick with my loving mutt I think.

I would buy one of those in a second. I like dogs pretty okay, but man... I bet you could teach it to use a litter pan and everything. It'd be like a mini-cat... only a dog.

My roommate has a 2.5 pound chihuahua that uses a litter box and prefers cat food. You'd swear she actually is a cat.

I don't understand the whole pet thing. Seems like slavery to me.

i know! seems like all i ever do is change out that damn cats litter box, refill her food and water dish or scratch her back! god i feel so used! :)

~james

I think I'll get one of these. Then I'll make a little basket with a harness, kind of like you see on elephants, and put it on my St. Bernard. Then the little toy dog can ride around like, um, like one of those guys who rides around on elephants.

What are those guys called? It's on the tip of my tongue, or the tip of my brain anyway.

Mahout <i>Ma*hout", n.</i> [Hind. mah=awat, Skr. mah=am=atra;]
mahat great + m=atr=a measure.
The keeper and driver of an elephant. East Indies

It has the sad Russian eyes.

Let me see if I can get this comparison up...

They have the same facial hair too.

Cats will play with and kill roaches.

Dumber cats will eat them.

Does pet ownership make more sense to you now?

Perhaps one day, we will be the pets of a greater being...remember the song "Pets" by Porno for Pyros?

That's because you're obviously a sociopath who is unable to understand how a human being could fashion an emotional link to an animal(or, another human for that matter).

"I don't understand the whole marriage thing. Seems like rape to me."

Locking someone in your house for years on end and feeding them dry cereal and occasional trash seems odd to you? Freak!

Hey...wait a minute...I think Zorg is on to something here...I think juju is a sociopath! ;)

Seriously though, Juju, why do you think pet ownership is akin to slavery?

Because, they're not given a choice of where they live or what they eat. You're forcing both on them.

Also, I'm viciously allergic to cats, and was also allergic to dogs as a child. I was never allowed to own a pet because of this, so I never learned how to "bond" with a dumb animal. I guess that's why I really don't get it. :)

Also, there are these people who think their pets can "talk". I really don't understand them, either. Sure, you can get some information from their behavior, but when the dog is barking, why bother pretending that it's really perfectly understandable speech?

And what about these people who dress their dogs up in clothes? Weird. Just weird.

Juju, if you had ever owned a pet I guarantee you that you would see things differently. There are very few things that can beat coming home after a long trip and having your dog waiting for you. I lived on a farm and our dog could have run away if she wanted to but she stayed right there and was always excited when we pulled up.
As for the food thing, I can see your point, though if you didn't feed them they would end up starving, it's not like most domestic breeds of dogs are great hunters.
But since you didn't have the opportunit to "bond with a dumb animal" I'll let you get by thinking that owning pets are akin to slavery. :)

I'd like to come back as one of my pet ferrets. Sheesh what a cushy life they have!

Having a pet it's really good therapy. I used to come home after long work hours, and wanted nothing but go to bed. Now I work the same amount of hours, but taking my dog out and see she running around, <strike>killing little animals</strike> playing with kids and just doing whatever it's the most relaxing thing.

I own a cute Rottweiler, btw ;)

Depends on the pet.

Personally:
xxxx amount of cats.........don't know, don't really care but wouldn't leave one in the gutter to die.
2 sheps.......guard dogs.
1 alpine goat.............pain in the ass...literally.....childs pet though.
3 horses............these I care about and have a connection to.
1 bird...never mind.

Imagine if all those dogs and cats were on the street...you'd probably be at a greater risk of contracting a disease from them, or getting injured by one. So, by confining a variety of animals, you are better off. Doesn't that sound nice?

Giving a dog good healthy dog food allows them to live to their fullest. It's a lot better than eating leftover scraps that might have already been infested by flies, yet again protecting you the human.

Many animals are incredibly intelligent, such as gorillas and elephants...oh, and humans.

You didn't watch "Lassie" as a child, did you?

Timmy and Lassie went roaming the countryside, having a great old time fishing, exploring, etc. Sometimes, Timmy got caught in bad situations (a foot in a bear trap, sinking in quicksand, etc.), and Lassie would either try to help Timmy on her own, or go for help. Now granted, that's happy feel-good TV, but that sort of thing does occur with human and animal. If a dog helps save your life, or helps you live your life (a seeing-eye dog), can you understand how people might form an attachment with their animals?

For some people, pets are like children. They feed them, and love them, and even dress some of them. And you even have a few that take their pets to psychologists. Now, some of those things may sound a bit extreme to many of us, but there's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Why don't you head over to the library at that school of yours? A school like Arkansas should have a PsychLit database. Head over there, and put in some search parameters like "pets and well-being." You'll be amazed.

If you are allergic to dogs and cats, you should talk to your doctor about a prescription such as Claritin or Allegra. Besides, $20 says your sorry ass STILL hasn't seen the doc about your suspected hypoglycemia. Remember, you ARE listed in the phone book...do we need to call your wife? :)

Lets see, 2 dogs, 1cat, 17chickens, 2geese, and a fish. I used to be anti-cat until we had a red squirel infestation here. I was shooting, poisoning, mustard gassing until Ray decided to step in. Good Kitty. We're talking cattle/sheep/goats/bees, I'm gonna take Helens comment as one vote against goats.

Griff you seriuosly don't consider your chickens pets do you. And geese are just plain mean.

Confining people against their will doesn't sound nice. How about if I lock you up in my basement? Doesn't that sound nice?

And who says they have to live in the street? There are thousands of species of animals that live in the wild quite successfully. Why aren't you concerned about contracting disease from or getting injured by those other animals? Would I be better off keeping a gimp locked up in the basement? Hey, that's one less feral homeless person out there that might attack me!

I realize that animals aren't as smart as humans. So perhaps it's just the natural order of things that we control them. I'm cool with that, really I am. But I still call them like I see them. We control our pets. They're subservient to us. They may enjoy our company and love us, but it's definitely not a partnership of equals. It's one animal dominating another.

I realize that pets make a lot of humans happy. I don't doubt that. I'm mostly addressing the happiness and freedom of the pet, though. I'm sure african slaves made a lot of rich white men happy, too. In the case of pets, it all works out, because pets are too stupid to ask for their freedom back.


You know, I think the practice of raising children is also slavery. It's most definitely a necessary practice, but it's still slavery. See, just because you love the person whom you're controlling, that doesn't negate the fact that you're still dominating them. Having children is one of the few forms of moral slavery we have left.

Also, just so I don't have to go through and carefully alter my language, i'm just going to state it here: I admit that I could be wrong! This is just the world the way I see it. I'm not saying, "This IS the way it is". Well, okay, maybe I did say that, but I didn't mean it. What I meant was, "It seems to me like it might be this way."

Apparently, like Cam, juju doesn't consider chickens to be on the same level as other animals we enslave as pets.Interesting, that's the same attitude that makes cockfighting legal in OK. Some judge ruled that chickens aren't animals!

Gotta go now ... and make myself a chicken sandwich!

I never claimed to be an animal lover. :)

Domestication is a darwinian plot
 

I second that motion. You simply cannot understand until you own a pet yourself. While you're at the library, look up a book on dog behavior. Dogs are social animals; they require the attention and companionship of others. That's the result of thousands of years of their being pack animals.

Their social order and sense of well-being requires that every pack has a leader. That's just the way it works. They don't mind not being the leader, as long as there is a leader in their pack. In domesticated dogs, that "pack" is their human family, and they look up to their owner as their leader.

http://www.tobiasly.com/misc/cellar/aloysius2.jpg
This is Aloysius. I never really knew what the expression "follow like a lost puppy" meant until we got him. He never goes anywhere unless my wife or I are there too. He won't even leave the room to go eat unless one of us is goes with him.

Does this mean his quality of life is any worse than if that leader were another dog? Let's see, he gets high-quality food three times a day (anyone who thinks pet food is "trash" should go see how much it costs, and what sort of quality control it has to go through). He gets almost constant affection from Elizabeth and me. He gets chew toys to help exercise his teeth, treats when he goes to the bathroom outside, medical care, and plenty of exercise. Seems pretty much like a win-win situation.

And as far as it being "slavery".. Al has gotten out from our fence before, but he didn't run away. He just stayed at the house, waiting for us to return. Just like Cam, who lived on a farm where the dog could have run away. How is that slavery?

I'm going to agree with juju that having pets is akin to slavery. My cats own my ass. Gotta get their food, change their litter, give them massages... I only wish I had it so good.

They cease to be pets somewhere between the axe and the roaster. Geese are really no fun to have around. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has a good recipe, until then they can do perimeter security.

That same rationalization was also used in the 1800's for slavery. "They like it", "it makes them happy", "They've got it good". All these are very similar to what everyone said back then. It's also the same rationalization that people use to deprive the mentally ill of their freedom.

I'll see if I can find some sources that describe this online. I saw a documentary not too long ago on cultural depictions of blacks, and it talked about how people thought slaves were only happy when they were serving whites. Much of the same stuff.

As to some dogs sticking around when they have the chance to leave. well of course. They don't know any other life. They're practicing what they've known all their life. That doesn't change the fact that they're being deprived of their liberty. I'm not saying it's immoral. I'm just saying it's so. Some dogs do run off, and usually they're re-captured by the gestapo and either killed (oh, I mean "put to sleep"), or returned to their owner's homes.

Another thing that supports the theory that pets usually like to be where they are. I lived on a farm as stated earlier and we had wild cats around. Though it didn't happen often there were a couple times when a cat who was wild, after a little prodding by us(not locking them up) but being fed decided to take up residence.
We've also had Tomcats who took off to prown the countryside for some lovin' who came back after a while, and continued to hang around the house. Now if this cat truely didn't like it it would have stayed away, it knows about the wild, and has the complete freedom to leave, instead he usually came back and stayed around the house for a while.

One other thing that I think sets pet ownership completely apart from slavery. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORK

Ok, so what would it take for an animal to be categorized as a slave? Or can they be categorized as such at all?

What about horses that plow fields? They do manual labor.

HAH! I'd like somebody to tell that to my cats ! I don't know about where you live but my cats generally come and go as they please. I have to leave a window open 24/7 so they can get in and out. Sometimes one or two will vanish without a trace for a week or 2 (once it was a month) and then just as you're about to stop looking for them they'll wander in as if nothing ever happened.

And as for eating ! I tried to change thier cat biscuits once to a different (cheaper) brand, I dished it out and they all just looked blankly at the dish, and then back to me, as if to say "what the f*ck is this crap, what the hell are you trying to pull James ?!", after a couple days of silent protest I changed back to the original brand.

Of course, dogs are different they don't get to roam the streets at thier free will, and basically they'll eat anything you put in front of them - but dogs are stupid :-)

I read something once,
Dogs think YOU are god because you feed them.
Cats think THEY are god because you feed them.
I think it's very true :-)

Horses I guess could be classifies as slaves, though I still think this is a ridiculous argument.
I guess my feelings are that unless the one being deprived of freedom is of the same species it can't be considered slavery. Ant's enlave other ants. Ants also raise aphids to get food. Is that slavery I personally don't think so.
Our species has enslaved others of our species. We have also raised animals to be our pets, and to work for us. I have a simple question, if we set all of our pets free, let them do whatever they wanted, and quit feeding them, how many of our poor dogs and cats would live more than a week. I have a guess that not many would.

Hah! I'd like you to tell that to my dog! He's just as picky as any damn cat I've ever seen.

Of course, we now come to find out that he likely has an allergy to beef and/or chicken. And every friggin' dog food and treat in the supermarket has one of those in it. We had to get him a special venison and potatoes dog food to feed him exclusively for 10 weeks to see if it's indeed a food allergy.

Venison and potatoes! And I've had peanut butter sandwiches for like 50% of my meals this week! Of course, this shit's expensive too. Stupid itchy dog.

*cringes at the word dumb for animals*

Sorry about your allergies. Pets are WAY better than having kids, IMO. Nothing better than the unconditional love of a pet, than the ungrateful attitude of another human that you gave life to.

Hey, just calling it as I see it.

Cock fighting is a bunch of shit, don't even get me started on how ridiculously cruel that is. Roosters are programed to fight, you put two together they are going to fight, I've seen them fight, it's not pretty, but at least in the "wild" the loser can get away. In cock fights the winner isn't going to stop until it leaves, and since the loser can't, it's a fight to the death.

awwwwww lookit!!!!!!!!
 

[quote]Originally posted by Tobiasly


http://www.tobiasly.com/misc/cellar/aloysius2.jpg


Oh..my...GOD!! Whatta sweetheart!!! That face!!! *turns all to goo* WOOOGIEWOOOOO!!

Hehe, sorry. Always been a sucker for the "puppy eyes". :D

Yeah, that's the response he generates in most people :)

Geese can be evil. They used to attack students at UMSL. They would all sit on the lake...waiting...for the perfect victim. I got shit on 3 times, flown after a couple of times, and tried to kick one once after it flew towards my face.

Humans are currently at the top of the heap, so for now, we have the right to assert our dominance over "lesser creatures." I'm not saying it's necessarily nice...just the way it is. At the same time, by treating dogs and cats the way we do, I believe that we're actually elevating them to a higher status...they're nearly human for some.

Confining people against their will IS nice if they are criminals. There is no current justification for locking me up in your basement. We're on the same level in the circle of life, nor am I currently considered a threat to society. :)

The streets can be the wild for domesticated animals.

And I am concerned about getting injured or contracting disease from animals in the wild. For example, I don't touch stray animals and keep my food high up to protect raccoons from getting into it (if I am camping).

Don't mix apples and oranges, Señor Juju. You keep throwing in humans...we're talking about non-human animals here.

I see. So if you're not "human", your lot in life is to be dominated. Sounds like predujice to me!

Oh, that's ridiculous, right? Animals don't have rights, because they're just animals. Yet you profess that they're <i>so</i> intelligent and <i>so</i> loving. Intelligence and emotion, yet no rights or status.

Don't you think it's a little contradictory for people to try to tell us that pets are highly intelligent and emotional, and yet they dominate them, buy them, sell them, and own them as property?

They're either things, or they're emotional and intelligent beings. Things deserve to be owned, loving intelligent creatures don't.

Yes.

It could very well be "prejudice."

You're not very good at sarcasm juju...keep working on it though.

Could you point out where I mentioned pets having emotion? I'd appreciate it.

Not necessarily...at least to me. As I see it, they're different species than us...species that are weaker than us...not as intelligent as us. We're not only taking care of a lesser creature, but protecting ourselves as well.

Pets are different things to different people, to me, pets are not posessions they are members of your family, you look after them, feed them, love them, when they get sick you take them to the doctor, you provide for thier needs, and in return they give you unconditional love.

To other people pets are posessions, I don't like people like that. For example the type of people who do the cat show/dog show thing, parading the "animal" to vicariously boost thier confidence just make me sick.

I don't own my cats, they are free to come and go as they please (and they do) but if they need food, warmth, comfort, love or help I am always there for them - and they know it, and demonstrate that they know it. They are a member of my family, and I'd like to believe they feel I am a member of thiers.

Edit :
When I say pets I'm talkig traditional cat & dog here. I don't like pets kept in cages/aquariums etc for one reason - if the situation was reversed I would NOT like to live in a cage for my entire life, or even a day - while I wouldn't mind coming back as a cat, they get a pretty nice life by my standards.

Most cats are outdoor cats - they can leave anytime they like - hint, they don't. They actually LIKE us. We give them good food, a warm dry place to live, and lots of love.

Want a REALLY affectionate pet? Take in a stray cat or dog! You will end up with a VERY thankful pet! Something about regular meals they don't have to work for

Dogs and people which chose the other?

Pet Slaves
 

JuJu:

First of all the whole nonsense comparison of pets being slaves is just an ignorant comment. For the most part I say that the confinement of animals is ‘unjust’, that is when we talk about gorillas, monkeys, elephants, wild birds or most wildlife species. On the other hand, when you speak of Dogs and Cats (primarily) you are not talking about ‘wildlife’ these are domesticated animals. They depend on humans for food and nutrition and even if they have never been in contact with humans would take several generations for this to be breed out of them.

I currently do not own a single pet (mainly because it hurts too much to see them die). :( :( If you think that owning a pet is slavery then I have to say you certainly have a warped prospective on life. Pets can lower your stress, increase your life span, and bring a general feel of harmony to your life. Dogs and cats without owners sink into deep depressions and often die of loneliness, not exactly what happens with slaves!

Lonley Pets

At the very least, dogs and cats live longer and much less stressed lives in domestication than they would in the wild.

My girl may require $1500 in vet bills to take care of her gimpy leg, which she got just running around. In the wild she'd become turkey vulture food.

The girl is extremely happy with her lot, even with a bad leg. She stays close to home at all times, very anxious of others although she loves all.

The boy sometimes thinks there might be a better pack on the block, and will trot off for 20 minutes or so, but he eventually comes back, deciding that we're still the best bet.

Both run right to their crates at the word "crate" even though they are going to spend hours there, because they think of the crate as their personal cave/nest.

The fact that people enjoy having pets has nothing to do with the morality of it. Again, whites enjoyed having black slaves. Many times there would be a black woman that cooked dinner, cleaned, and generally took care of the house. Though they were servants, they were considered part of the family. Love doesn't negate the dominant/submission pattern.

I'm trying to define slavery as being confined in one place and being restricted in your actions (aka house arrest), although the addition of a physical labor requirement does seem like it would make the definition more sane. So I could see pets as not being slaves as long as they aren't doing labor, but then horses and mules would definitely be considered slaves.

Still, just because "they like it", that doesn't make it not slavery. That has been used an excuse for slavery nearly every time it has occurred.

I got it. If you're going to compare it to something, compare it to having a family member with a very very low IQ.

Or a child. You are responsible for what they do, so they don't have free will, they don't have a democracy where they get a vote. If left to themselves, they would likely injure or kill themselves or others.

Slavery and will require a higher understanding than cats and dogs and infants and children are capable of. It's in their best interests that they are not treated like adults.

I'm totally cool with that definition, as long as people stop telling me how smart their pets are. :)

I really find that some people take the anthropomorphization of animals too far. Some people think that animals are just as smart if not smarter than humans, and that they have our full range of reasoning and emotional abilities. It really bugs me, and I say if they're going to treat them just like people, they should really go all the way. If you're going to confine them to your home (yeah yeah, not everyone does this, but many <i>do</i>), at least have the decency to objectify them. Elsewise you're treating an equal as an inferior.

Let's be clear, though. I think they're inferior, and that it's not slavery. But I say that if you're going to treat them as equals, actually do it instead of saying you're doing it.

Sure it does -- slavery means involuntary. If they like it, it's not involuntary (OK, they aren't exactly antonyms, but I'm sure you see my point.)

You may disagree on whether the "slaves" actually enjoy their lot, but if they do enjoy the arrangement, and prefer it to any other arrangement available to them, it's not slavery.

I think juju is on to something here! Instead of cooping up all those poor animals in farms and zoos, let them all loose! Want beef for dinner? Then chase down a cow and kill it. Want to see a lion? Use the beef as bait to lure it into your driveway.


And Hell, why stop with the animal world? After all, they're not conscious as humans are. But did you know that there are humans whose every movement is watched and monitored, and have no opportunies to exert their free will? They're called babies.

Juju, brave social visionary that he is, will no doubt agree that this so called "parenting" is nothing but legal slavery! Set free all babies now!

Point of order: I currently have a baby on premises (age 6 1/2 months). While it is true that she is watched and to some extent monitored, she is exerting her free will all over the place. ;)

Why, just last night, I was up late as usual, finishing up a bit of code on a side project of mine.

It was late, and I had cut myself off the caffeine an hour or two earlier. So I really wasn't thinking too clearly, and I made an all-too-common error:

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <B><FONT FACE="Courier New">if ($cols{id} = 1) {
</FONT></B>

Well, ol' Al starts barking up a storm, with his tail straight out and his big ol' puppy paw pointed at the monitor. "What is it, boy?" I asked. Then it hit me!

&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <B><FONT FACE="Courier New">if ($cols{id} == 1) {
</FONT></B>

Once again, Al saves the day! Good boy!

Maybe Al can come over and watch me try to configure my WAP router for my Powerbook and tell me why it's not working and what I'm doing wrong, because my two cats are pretty useless.

:)

What WAP you got?

I asked him about your problem.

http://www.tobiasly.com/misc/cellar/aloysius3.jpg

Looks like he's still pondering the issue. I'll let you know when he comes up with something.

When the ears go back like that it's usually a configuration problem, not a hardware problem or anything serious.