Mosque at 51 Park Place, NY, NY
 

I searched Cellar, but did not find recent postings about the proposed "Mosque at the WTC",
but I'm sure everyone has heard of the furor that has started over it.

I was curious as to just where this mosque would be since some were saying it was just 2 blocks away from Ground Zero,
and others were asking how many blocks away should it be.

The location is at the "pink dot" on the Google map below.
It looks as though there are other religious facilities within roughly the same distance. (catholic, methodist, etc)

Well, while we have lost some freedoms thanks to 9/11, I don't believe religous freedom is one of them. They can build the Satanic Chapel of Shit Kicking Cat Worshippers on or near the site of 9/11, and the only people who would object would be those ungodly dog lovers with which this nation unfortunately abounds.

What are we going to do? Prohibit the construction of all mosques forever? Or a mosque is okay if its at least 100 miles away from 9/11? What about a cat's whisker less than 100 miles? Is one mile away blasphemy, but two miles away is fine? I think that the people who get riled up over this have too much time on their hands.

I think Saudi Arabia would be far enough. And the Catholics, Methodists, or the Satanic Chapel of Shit Kicking Cat didn't attack us, or fly planes into the world community that worked in the twin towers.

I think its akin to the relatives of the guys that murdered your husband/wife/children/parents/friends and or neighbors moving in down the street from you. . . sorta.

Likewise Catholic churches and pedophiles.

I am so scared of this place. You can't help but see it on the way to Toledo.

;)

Come on. Completely unrelated to terrorists, there are good citizens of other nationalities.

Your xenophobia is showing, c-man.

Perhaps you prefer this graven image. Burnt but will rise again.

They're doing the same thing in London, the site and size was chosen to be in your face.

A real big sorta...

The mosque in London was initiated in 2004 and planned for use during the Olympics.
Last July construction began on an expansion project described as:

"The East London Mosque and London Muslim Centre have commenced building works on an eight and half storey project which is primarily focussed on women's need. It will contain brand new funeral facilities, new prayer space for men and women, women' educational facilities and a women's health and fitness centre. "

Now events are being held to unite local communities.

How so?
If you were closer to this perhaps you'd think differently.
I know people who used to work at the WTC and/or lost loved ones in the attack - thats pretty much what they've told me.

Just because you are a Muslim doesn't mean that you are a terrorist any more than being a Christian means you're a member of the Spanish inquisition.

We either have freedom of religion in this country or we don't. I for one do not want a government that tells me when and where I can worship the god(s) it has chosen for me.

There's nothing to discuss.

The US Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't discussing that at all. Just offering the opinions of some who were more directly affected by this than perhaps the rest of us.

I read these two as being very similar... not as xenophobic

Who said anything about xenophobic?

:lol2:

You insensitive fucking bastard! I know a guy who knew a guy whose friend's second cousin worked at the WTC and he lost his xenophobic cat on 9/11! As him how HE feels about mosques and stuff like that. :mad:

Honestly, it is more situation dependent than anything. Even though legally there is very little that can be done, if the mosque was sponsored or run by extremists Muslims, yes, that would be very insulting to anyone who was affected by 9/11. If the mosque is like most mosques in the US, and not radical, then there is no more relation between them and Al Qaeda as there is between a liberal Christian and the Westboro fuckers.

I think it is in bad taste either way but whatever.

..
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^ What he said ^
WTF???
That's like saying no Christians can attend funerals because of the Westboro fuckers?!

You either have a Constitution or you don't.
If you guarantee rights and are justifiably proud that you did so WAY before any other country, then you have to stick to that, unpleasant incidents notwithstanding.

If you penalise New York dwelling American Muslims, tax paying, law abiding, family oriented people who came to America to live and worship in freedom then I have to ask what you have left to defend.

But but but, Sundae, they might be here illegally, taking all the jobs cleaning hotels and stuff. They look different so we must be very wary. :unsure:

Seriously, that is such a good point. What is there left to defend: a xenophobic nation that certainly didn't start out as such. Small-minded people are scared to death.

How are they being penalized? From what I have been told those who lost loved ones simply don't want it so close to the WTC. When asked how far away was far enough - no concrete answer. You can't really draw a line in the sand on something like this.

Like he said ...

I understand this, but ultimately, they don't get a say.

Imaginary people rarely do.

Bruce is exactly correct about 'in your face'. The imam behind the drive for this mosque has a history of supporting Islamic terrorists, and was NOT critical at all of the 9/11 bombers. In fact, where are all these 'moderate' Islamic leaders-even here in the US? Are there any? Yassar Arafat always condemned terrorists to the Western press-does anyone believe he ever did anything to stop it? Oh yes. they believe the Koran permits lying and deceiving us infidels to achieve their objectives.

This is definitely an 'in our face' effort. What will be the perception in the Muslim world outside this country---'We bombed their heart, and those stupid infidels allow us to put a mosque right next door'.

Will peace with the West be preached there-or will Hate America be spouted, and recruiting be going on in our face? What do you think? Don't give me the love stuff, give me the history.

Doesn't matter if even 99% of Muslims were not terrorism supporters. It is the ones that are who control the schools, learning centers, mosques, and are the only ones we hear from. They have the influence in the Muslim world because they hold all the positions of authority. NOT ONE has spoken out firmly and without equivocation against what happened on 9/11. Or in fact oppose the Taliban or Al Qaeda. They will never not support a fellow Muslim-they are not allowed to. And the handful of ordinary Muslims that stand up become pariahs in their community and are disowned.

Thats true, and sad, very sad.

My point exactly. It's segregation. Catholic terrorists can shake the President's hand (McGuiness/ Clinton). Law abiding Muslims can't worship except where we tell them to. Sitting at the back of the bus is not equality.
Blame your press if they are the only ones you hear from.
Have you heard from the mosque Seema's family attend? It's in Houston somewhere. She was my work colleague and I know she was appalled that someone used her religion as an excuse to kill people.

Did you hear from Father Frank and Father Harris during the atrocities? I doubt it. They didn't support the IRA and their sermons were to a small Buckinghamshire community. Did you hear from Sister Una, who grew up and taught in Belfast, where the children would walk to school via routes lined with bombsites? No. But she was my headmistress. You might have heard from the Reverend Ian Paisley though. I know we did. Why? Spewing hate is far more newsworthy than preaching on the nuances of The Sermon on the Mount or why Jesus really blasted the fig tree, or what St Paul really meant.

(Disclaimer - Paisley is a Protestant and therefore on the other side of the divide, but he preached hate as much as any un-named Catholic priest supporting the glory of the Republic from the pulpit).

If 99% of Muslims are peaceful and you have freedom of speech and the right to assemble and the right to worship enshrined in law (and I admire you for it) then I fail to see how it can be American to deny it. American does not equal Christian. American equals a commitment to these ideals. Ideals which some Muslims probably hold more dear than some Christians at this point.

I'm sorry that Muslims bombed the World Trade Centre. Many people lost their lives, or their relatives, their livelihood, sense of peace, their property etc etc. When? Where? In attacks in the British Isles by Protestants and Catholics during The Troubles. Don't blame religion for genocidal tendencies. Blame people.

What the hell are you on about? I shared the opinions of those I knew about the mosque and its proximity to the WTC. THAT IS ALL.
:mad: Ferfuxache.:mad2:

And many of the same folks get really angry if we imply that it's guns that kill people, not people who kill people.

It is the people we should be concerned about. Again- where are the 'moderate leaders' of the Muslim community to temper the inflammatory rhetoric of those who hate us? Are there any? Every time a deep look is taken at a 'leader' he turns out to sympathize or outright support terrorism either by actions, statements or inaction.
You do have a right to conduct your religion as you see fit, but not an unbridled right. As soon as you threaten the public safety, or incite someone else to, you lose the right. And, again, not one Muslim clerical leader has stood with us against the terrorists. Have a name?

Never been any hesitation at squashing or verbally attacking dangerous Christians in this country. And rightly so. Because they are in the majority, its ok? So when Muslims are in the majority then we will be ok with demanding a higher level of personal responsibility by them.

Uh oh. Too late by then. We'll all be Muslim or be headless.

The only religion that advocates forced conversion or death. Face the reality of our enemy. Harsh words but true. That's what the Muslim leadership says. Doesn't matter what we think. We're just politically correct dopes. Why are they held to a lower standard than others?

We have met the enemy and he is us. :rolleyes:

Penalize how? I do not support taking away their right to build a mosque near the WTC.

My stance on this topic is that it should be a non-issue. Unless they purposely built the mosque as close to the WTC as possible, I don't see this as an insult. On the other hand, I do believe it was in bad taste unless they had a good logical reason for building the mosque on that site, which they very well may.

It is similar to those guys who wore an American flag t-shirt on Cinco de Mayo. I don't see it as an insult to Mexican culture unless they purposely tried to make a statement, and it seemed like they weren't. On the other hand, even if they did wear that shirt on regular occasion, I still think it is in bad taste to wear it on that day. They have a right to wear it, just like these Muslims have a right to build the mosque there, but they both had to know it would start some controversy and many times it is better to just avoid those situations.

Would folks feel the same way if the situation were say ... a Christian Identity church being built around the corner from Auschwitz or the Holocaust Museum?

Let's build Catholic Churches across the street from every nursury school, day care center, and elementary school. That is a greater threat than any Mosque.

Shhh, that's all secret. You're not supposed to bring that up.

That's what they kept telling the kids. Apparently it worked.

All those people in robes are a threat? In white robes in the deep south. In red and black robes in cathedrals. And in robes in the desert. Which proves the only good people wear blue jeans.

Timothy McVeigh wore blue jeans. You can't trust anyone these days.

Bwahahaha! Good Point Sam!

What about that reverend in blue jeans of the famous song? What? Huh? OH....it was FOREVER in blue jeans? Never mind. [/Emily Littela]

I am unable to find one photo of Mr McVeigh in blue jeans, even googling Timothy McVeigh in blue jeans. There is, however, a lot of prison orange (post blow-up) and lots of military camouflage (pre blow-up). Just sayin'

Here you go:

That's my neighbor guy, Woody!

Was Tim married? I had no idea!

He looked just like the boy next door, didn't he? He never married - too busy building bombs, I guess. I still remember the day of the Oklahoma City bombing. The news came on the radio as I was driving to work. I heard about all those little kids in the day care center, and I started crying and had to pull off the road for a few minutes. :(

Europe and the US are lousy with Christian churches, and the only reason there isn't one (if there isn't one) within two blocks of the Holocaust Museum is that it's surrounded by parks and Federal buildings.

He's got what looks like a weddin' ring on. *shrug*

"I'm not sure that's Pete" or Tim. ;)

Very sad though. :(

McVeigh was a loser who repelled women. Maybe if he got laid once in a while, he wouldn't have been such an evil prick.

:lol:

That ain't him, either.

Chicks dig the bad boys. He got a marriage proposal while he was in jail.

Luckily for (insert male dwellar name here), Tim wasn't interested. :lol:

"Christian Identity" is a sect closely associated with the KKK, Aryan Nation, and other white supremacist groups. They're not your average Christians.

Why not lump Christians together, if we're doing it to Muslims?

Palin tweets in on the mosque

http://www.newsweek.com/spectrum/201...-new-word.html

Hahaha...on a related note re: her new word:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos...s_new_pol.html

She "corrected" herself later by changing it to "refute". Which is a difficult thing to do to a building.

So she, herself, did not know she might have meant:

re·pu·di·ate/riˈpyo͞odēˌāt/Verb
1. Refuse to accept or be associated with.

Its just too silly and shows an impressive narrow mindedness to agree with Palins assessment. Shes an idiot.

She wasn't talking to a building she was talking to moderate muslims . . . not that it really matters. (see below)
Yup and if the R's select her as their candidate then I am getting the BEST :tinfoil: and going 100% conspiracy theorist cuz thats as good as giving the election away. (not that I'm impressed by any other candidate they have to offer)

Which proves you can only trust naked people. Maybe Spencer Tunick knows more than all of us? Many with clothes get hateful when Tunick advocated nakedness.

Now if Palin would just take her clothes off.

And asking them to refudiate and/or refute the building.

Yeh thats what she meant. :eyebrow:

good fucking question.

I doubt you'll get a substantive answer. Ever.