The Cellar - Af'stans, Pak'stans, & Leaks

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- - Af'stans, Pak'stans, & Leaks (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=23229)

Af'stans, Pak'stans, & Leaks

Quote:

Angry Pakistani officials deny leaked documents' suggestion of ties to Taliban
Pakistani officials inside and outside Afghanistan on Monday reacted angrily to the publication of a trove of secret U.S. military documents that suggested Pakistan's spy agency collaborated with the Taliban, and they said the United States is using Pakistan as a scapegoat for its failing war.

Diplomats and intelligence officials dismissed the reports as false and warned that they could have damaging consequences for Pakistan's relations with the United States, particularly whether the Americans could be trusted with sensitive information.

For all the hype about this leak, if you did not know this stuff, then your news sources must be questioned.

For example, Pakistan extremists regard Afghanistan as an ally of India. In a black and white world that extremists live in, others are only friends or enemies. Such extremists could not even hear India warning Pakistani that, when it comes to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, India and Pakistan should be allies.

A major hotel was bombed in Kabul. Likely attackers - Pakistanis or their agents. You should have known that. Most did not because so much domestic news was manipulate and provided by Fox News and other domestic propaganda sources.

Pakistan was literally told they had to decide whether to entertain their own extremists. Or deal with the reality being enforced by the US. At the highest levels of Pakistan's government, it was decided to work with America. But at lower levels, Pakistanis still remain a partial ally of the Taliban.

Those in America who also see things in black and white will not understand the complexities confronting Sec Clinton and Richard Holbrook. Pakistan, like all countries in the world, is not a monolithic entity. What country is the greatest threat to America? Probably Pakistan. Leaked documents are mostly just confirming what was all but completely known.

So what makes those leaked documents so damning? Information that explains why we were defeated in Afghanistan. Why we are fighting the Afghan war all over again - completely from scratch. Without major advantages we once had in 2001 when every nation adjacent to Afghanistan - including Iran – wanted to provide various levels of assistance. Today, Russia is an obviously more reliable ally than Pakistan.

The 2000s have left us with messes enhanced everywhere from space to the deep sea, to science, to climate, and to relations with most every nation in the world. We even all but destroyed the Oslo Accords and wiped out a surplus into a greatest deficit.
Even almost created another Great Depression.

These leaks are only confirming what everyone should have suspected over four years ago.

Also from the link

Quote:

In a statement, the Pakistani government called the allegations, contained in more than 91,000 military documents leaked by the group Wikileaks.org to unveil $500 million worth of development projects, the first disbursement of a $7.5 billion, five-year aid package approved by Congress last year.

Quote:

The official acknowledged, however, that some of the allegations sound "very damning" and could erode support in America for the U.S. alliance with Pakistan. If the CIA does not denounce the suggestions, the official said the ISI might need to reexamine its cooperation.

Quote:

Retired Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul,a former Pakistani spy chief who was repeatedly implicated in the documents, also lashed out at the allegations that he aided the Taliban attacks. Gul is accused, among other things, of directing Pakistan-based militants to craft plans for strikes inside Afghanistan, including one meant as payback for the death of an al-Qaeda operative killed by a U.S. drone attack.
Gul worked closely with the CIA's anti-Soviet campaign during his tenure from 1987 to 1989. Today, he is one of Pakistan's most strident critics of the United States and an unabashed supporter of Afghan insurgents. U.S. officials have long suspected him of retaining links to former mujaheddin such as Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. The senior ISI official said Gul has no remaining ties to the ISI.

There is also the money. Never forget the money.
Oh and there is also Gul. Let us not forget him.

Quote:

A 22-year-old US Army intelligence analyst, facing a court-martial, appears to be behind the biggest leak in US military history of classified documents on the war in Afghanistan that also exposed Pakistan's double- game in the war-torn country, including its Taliban links.

Bradley Manning, who allegedly boasted online that he was going to reveal "the truth" about the war in Afghanistan, is believed to be the main suspect who leaked the information to Wikileaks, the Telegraph reported.

Manning was arrested in Baghdad in May and charged earlier this month with multiple counts of mishandling and leaking classified data, after a computer hacker turned him in, the paper said.

Wikileaks, the website known for publishing secret government documents, has exposed Pakistani ISI's links with Afghan insurgents and Taliban, undermining US-led efforts to stabilise the war-torn nation. With over 90,000 US military documents leaked on the website, the expose is considered to be a huge embarrassment for the US.

During online chats with the hacker, a man thought to be Manning said he had passed material relating to Afghanistan to Julian Assange, the founder of the Wikileaks website which leaked more than 92,000 secret documents to select media.

Manning, who is currently awaiting a court martial, is widely assumed to have been the man who passed the documents to Assange, though investigators believe he must have had accomplices.

Manning is alleged to be a whistle-blower who used the online name Bradass87 when he contacted a high-profile Californian computer hacker, Adrian Lamo, on May 21, the paper said.

Over the following five days, Bradass87 held a series of online conversations with Lamo, in which he identified himself as "an army intelligence analyst, deployed to eastern Baghdad" with "unprecedented access to classified networks".

He said his job gave him access to two high-security networks: the Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, SIPRNET, which carries US diplomatic and military intelligence; and the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System, which includes "top secret" classification.

Bradass87 said the networks had enabled him to see "incredible things, awful things that belong in the public domain and not on some server stored in a dark room in Washington DC almost criminal political backdealings the non- PR version of world events and crises".

He said he had downloaded 260,000 classified or sensitive State Department cables and transmitted them by computer to Wikileaks.

He claimed he copied some of the information on to blank CDs labelled "Lady Gaga" and hummed along to non-existent music while he downloaded secret information.

"I want people to see the truth," he added. "It's open diplomacy it's Climategate with a global scope and breathtaking depth it's beautiful and horrifying. It's public data, it belongs in the public domain."

Unknown to Bradass87, Lamo had contacted the US military two days into the online chat, fearing that the leak of information would endanger lives.

On May 25, he met Pentagon officials in a branch of Starbucks and gave them a printout of the online chat. Manning was arrested the next day at US Forward Operating Base Hammer near Baghdad, the Telegraph said.

Manning is also suspected of being behind the leak of a video, distributed by Assange in April, of a 2007 US helicopter strike in Baghdad which killed a dozen people.

Yesterday, Lamo said he had no doubt Manning was behind the vast amount of leaked material from Afghanistan, though he strongly suspected the young analyst from Maryland could not have acted alone.

"It was not my impression that he had the technical expertise to carry out some of these actions," he was quoted as saying.

Seems that these Pak'stans are much more dangerous than Af'stans. We directly provide them financial, scientific and warfare aids. And they happily distribute it among those who are meant to bear brunt of it.
Pak'stans had been always plunged in a civil war cause it is filled with people who would have easily made it much worse than Af'stans. But then they look up to Uncle Sam- who thinks of his self-interest regarding the base in the east for future possibilities (read war).
Had Pak'stan not been open to US, it would have been another target of military operations and been ripped apart.

They want the money - nothing more - just like the rest.

..........and they are getting it.

That's gotta end soon. When are we gonna realize that we have to stop.

Wanderer, could you identify the source for that? Just, err, wandering. No, wait.

:2cents:
I'm very suspicious of what must be a rushed, grab some juicy headlines article like this. But, lets take its points one by one.

Black ops unit. Meh. This is a war, and in the context of this kind of war this would sound like sound strategy. Doesn't ruffle my feathers.

Taliban has SAMs. "Much more sophisticated ... than previously thought". WTF? Our side was giving them SAMs 25 years ago. You think they used them all up on the Russkies?

Under-reporting of civilian deaths. That is significant, both the high(er) number of deaths and the under-reporting itself, which saps the credibility of the establishment. The lack of detail here is disappointing. One to watch for developments.

Taliban paid to kill Indians by the ISI. Not entirely surprising, but problematic, our supposed allies in bed with the enemy, or at least dating.

Osama dead? On very thin evidence. That he disappeared without being caught makes the west look impotent. When he passes away matters less.

North Korea? Still vague and weak at this stage - intelligence often is, I must admit - but I wouldn't put it past either of them.

Woman trading. ooh ooh, was she hot?

ISI plotting with Taliban to attack US forces (and probably any foreigners).
Not entirely surprising, but if the Taliban are getting organised support - even discretely - from within Pakistan, that will make things much harder for us. Is it just a few rogues within the ISI, or is the whole thing in on it?

This involvement of the ISI could lead to interesting things. The spotlight swing on them. They may get a shake up, and that is the sort of threat that can trigger a pre-emptive coup. Or the clean out of the ISI might weaken Pakistan's internal security. Interesting times.

Stay tuned, folks, for more crazy adventures on planet Earth!

The SAMs they have now... well they've used at least one... are from North Korea, and much improved over what the CIA gave them years ago.

Plus, doesn't complicated ammo have a shelf life?

Oh yes, they deteriorate, and it's a case of it's cheaper and easier to replace than try to refurbish.

So many mixed emotions. Don't really know where to go with this.

Me too.

1. Should never have been leaked - military secrets - this could cost grunts' lives.

but

2. The grunts deserve to have the truth told, and the upper-level political BS exposed.

but

3. This will sap public morale and may cause America to abandon Afghanistan.

but

4. The public have a right to know and make their decisions.

and further

5. The war (in fact, the whole country) is FUBAR and the sooner we leave the better.

but

6. That basically hands Afghanistan to the Taliban and that is both a human rights disaster and possibly a threat to our long term security....

Did I miss much?

Don't these leaked documents mostly give snapshots of individual units on particular days? We won't see the long term hearts and minds stuff, the school, local government, and infrastructure building... not that the whole thing hasn't been FUBAR from the start.:thepain: