The Cellar - A Dysfunctional Democracy

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A Dysfunctional Democracy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16815916/site/newsweek/

Quote:

Jan. 25, 2007 - Why are Washington policymakers so skeptical that George W. Bush’s surge plan for Iraq can work? In large part because they don’t trust Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki. The consensus in town: Maliki must get his act together, fix Iraqi governance and quell the out-of-control sectarian hatred in his country if America is to have any hope of success.

What’s missing here is that Maliki and the rest of the world have every reason to be skeptical themselves about America’s own governance, not to mention our out-of-control sectarian divisions. And if they don’t think we can get our act together and speak with a common voice, they may cut separate deals (in Maliki’s case, with Tehran).

All these problems were on display in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday as it debated a resolution opposing the president’s decision to send another 21,000 troops into what Sen. Chuck Hagel called "the grinder” of Iraq. “Don't hide anymore; none of us!” Hagel barked to his fellow Republicans, lecturing them from the moral high ground he occupies as a plain-speaking Vietnam vet who said publicly, earlier than most, that the Iraq invasion was wrongheaded. Hagel was simply asking his colleagues that if they opposed Bush’s plan, they have the courage to say so, rather than continue to act as a rubber stamp. “I want every one of you, every one of us, 100 senators to look in that camera, and you tell your people back home what you think,” Hagel said. “If we don’t debate this, we are not worthy of our country.” Although several Republicans expressed misgivings, only Hagel voted in favor of the nonbinding resolution in the end.

The Democrats, meanwhile, were caught up in their own internecine fight. “This is our moment!” said Sen. John Kerry, who had failed to seize the moment during his 2004 presidential run by refusing to attack the president over Iraq until the last six weeks of his campaign. As it turned out, this wasn’t really Kerry’s moment either—he announced later that day he would not run for president again. And he was promptly contradicted by his fellow Democrat, Russ Feingold, who remarked: “I’ve heard many of my colleagues today say this is the moment. I guess what I would say is: it should be the moment, but because we are not taking strong enough action, we will not rise to the moment.” Feingold, who wanted a resolution with teeth that use “our authorities under the Constitution” to cut off funding after a set date, went on to implicitly chastise his committee chairman, Sen. Joe Biden, for timidity. “Let me remind my colleagues on this side of the aisle—I’m so pleased we’re in the majority again—but we were in the majority when this war was approved,” said Feingold. “I see this committee and this Senate once again allowing itself to be intimidated into not talking about our real powers and our responsibility.” That prompted Biden to protest loudly—and perhaps a bit too much. “I may have a reputation in a number of things, but I don’t think it’s one of being intimidated by anybody, let alone a president,” a glowering Biden said. “If you find a person who’s spoken more frankly to seven presidents in the past, tell me who it was. So there is no intimidation here.”

continued...

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is just another reason I hate america.

Define 'America'.
I am rather unfond of America's government; I love the American people and the American land. Although the American people are capable of rather monumental stupidity (see: America's government).

Gee...you mean that "Bush sucks" doesn't actually rise to the level of either a viable policy or a political philosophy? Quelle surprise!

The problem with not actually having an agreed upon set of values is that when a new situation presents, there may be no agreement on what to do.

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Originally Posted by Pie (Post 310444)

Although the American people are capable of rather monumental stupidity...

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Originally Posted by Men In Black

Jay: Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.

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Originally Posted by Winston Churchill

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time.

Very, very true, both of you. But my point remains, no?

The point, I think, is pretty fucking eroded and now resembles a beach.

Nothing personal, just sandy.

The Democratic Party is trying as hard as it can to lose the war as soon as it can -- failing to plan being planning to fail, and they've never dared to envision winning, the donkeys -- that we may be condemned to fight another war in the region, some years down the line, that will be greater and more ruinous. Ibram, you're of an age to get caught up in that war. Better to get the change we want finished up here and now.

"Let’s face it: when you have to insist so hard that you’re not intimidated, you probably are. All this huffing and puffing about who’s got the guts to challenge a president who’s stuck at 28 percent in the polls! Here’s what was really going on: a group of Democrats supposedly enjoying their newfound majority on Capitol Hill were having a frank discussion, in full view of the world, about whether American government can function properly at all any longer."

For those of you who didn't read the whole article. He actually makes a good point here before going on his Bush bashing rant.

I thought that was fascinating. I really did. I don't see what about it would make you hate America. Representative democracy is not perfect; it's a fairly blunt instrument. If the mechanisms of state are balanced between different parties and different estates, then there will be times when one or the other in each, has ascendancy.

All that's happening now is a shifting of that balance. The people speaking strongly are a part of those shifts. But it's still early in that process.

Or have I misunderstood what it was that had caught your attention about that?

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Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 310878)

I don't see what about it would make you hate America. Or have I misunderstood what it was that had caught your attention about that?

When did I ever say I hated America????? I thought that quote was much more telling and, as you put it, "fascinating"l - that was my point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston Churchill
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those others that have been tried from time to time.

“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.” (Winston Churchill)

yesman, my post was directed at Ibram:P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippikos (Post 310919)

“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.” (Winston Churchill)

"When I am abroad, I always make it a rule never to criticize or attack the government of my own country. I make up for lost time when I come home."
Sir Winston Churchill

And this one, especially for Hip.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Sir Winston Churchill

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Originally Posted by Brianna (Post 310978)

And this one, especially for Hip.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Sir Winston Churchill

?? Can't t see the relevance, but since we're here, this one's for you:

"Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippikos (Post 311551)

?? Can't t see the relevance, but since we're here, this one's for you:

"Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

I HOPE you're not referring to Brianna! You would lose ALL credibility.