I suspect that the problem is simply that the protesters are "occupying" the downtown areas of major cities. The pan handlers, winos, and crazies who can be found downtown in most of our major cities didn't just pack up and leave because a bunch of people have suddenly decided to join them. I imagine they are delighted to take part in communal dining experiences and were first in line for sleeping bags donated to the Occupiers. And I bet they love the chance to get back at the cops and throw a rock or two from the anonymity of the crowd.

Whatcha gonna do? :cool:

Those people also have a whole bunch of new "marks" to target.
Which is my guess as well. Thats where most of the crime is generated from.

Fromm Occupy Philadelphia ...
So they had a sit-in today ...


About 2 hours ago they had an update
@OccupyPhilly sit-in protesters are now being arrested at Comcast

The occupy brisbane protesters were moved on yesterday. They were told to go camp out in a park up the road where the facilities were better rather than right next to the war memorial, outside the main train station etc.

The OWS movement has spread to Australia? Somehow, I thought conditions there are much better than here. I'm surprised.

Thank God it has started to Snow in a big way....

I think they are Sam. It's been going on here for about or almost as long as in the US.

Most of the ones in Brisbane seem like hippies with no jobs to begin with though, so not sure if they're anything more than the usual suspects at this stage. Time will tell.

eta: no snow here. I think they should all go for a swim though.

Wimp! :p: We love snow in Colorado. We cross country ski across town. We camp in the snow. And we continue to Occupy Denver:

Cold rain (33 / 48) here in PDX has'nt affected Occupy Portland.

Apparently Denver is occupied by three tents and six tarps.

Apparently, Occupy KC is at the Liberty Memorial, which is by a humongous IRS building. I dunno...it seems like they could have picked a better spot, but I'm not out there, so I don't really have shit to say about it.

But we continue to hold the line. And today it was business as usual with everyone back in force.

I really don't believe we will give up so easily. Especially once the ax falls on November 23. Congress is out to destroy the entire fabric of the social safety net. Food stamps, housing, and medical care especially via Medicare and Medicaid are under attack.

A major redistribution of wealth is going to occur and it will be from the poor, the working class, and the lower middle class to the wealthy few and the corporate criminals.

How dare Congress dismantle Medicaid while they have voted themselves permanent free medical care for the rest of their sorry lives? The hypocrisy is simply stunning. The millionaires in Congress continue to feed at the so-called government teat at the same time as they write off millions of Americans as collateral damage.

The grab for money and power by the wealthy few at the expense of the many, facilitated by the bought and paid for congress has finally been too much for America. Rural Colorado has traditionally been a Conservative stronghold, yet tonight I saw a flier advertising a meeting to protest the corporate take over of Congress in the little town of Mancos, Colorado, population 1,500. If that's not grass roots, I don't know what is.

How dare Congress take food from the children of the unemployed who have been forced to go on food stamps? Meanwhile, our president met with corporate executives today for a $195.00 a plate lunch. GOP stands for guardians of privilege and the Democrats are no better despite all their pretenses. How dare our own government consign a significant portion of our children to eat nothing but ramen noodles? How dare they?

How dare Congress take the slender housing assistance of low income disabled Americans and low income seniors and turn us out on the streets while they remain royally aloof from the rest of us in their million dollar gated communities? Do you know how much impact housing assistance for seniors and the disabled has on the national debt? Perhaps one percent. If that. How dare Congress place ideology over human beings? How dare they?

Corporate Government is rapidly creating an ever expanding class of Americans with nothing to lose. Where are we going to go? Where else but the streets? Occupy America!

Beautifully put Sam.

The entire post is excellent but this last portion stood out for me.

I have long advocated guilliotines in Washington. I think the mere presence of one or two has the potential to remind these fukkers who they are responsible to.

My state, currently being run by a man who helped tank Lehman brothers, is a perfect storm of crazy state sell-offs and privatizations that will lead no where good. It will, however, line the pockets of Kasichk and his cronies. I don't know how these people sleep at night.

People with nothing to loose are dangerous.

/janis/Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose/joplin/

Yes, and corporate congress is making a mistake by putting people in that position. Americans want to work. The people of this country have always had a strong work ethic. But so many have been put out of work completely or forced to into part time jobs by the sour economy created by the greed of the huge financial outfits and the resulting collapse of the whole financial house of cards.

Recent college graduates can't find jobs and often have a huge educational loans they must repay. The men and women who served this country in the Middle East come home to no jobs and a VA system which is just as likely to kill then as help them. Just ask Big Sarge.

Yet, today the GOP will vote against another jobs bill yet again. I do not understand what makes people think that "producers" need tax breaks before they will create jobs. Remember the huge expansion in the economy, the corporations vying with each other to hire workers, the excellent wages employees received back in W.'s administration when he cut all those taxes on the corporations and the wealthy? Me neither.

Americans don't want to be on food stamps. Its shameful. Its a personal defeat. In Colorado, able-bodied people must do a certain amount of civic work in exchange for their food stamp card. That's a great idea. Why not implement this program nation wide and have everyone doing useful work? It would make the food stamp program less costly and the recipients could get a little of their self respect back. Scrapping the food stamp program will only cause even more demoralization and children will be denied things like milk and fresh vegetables and a little meat - foods a child needs for healthy growth.

This is the kind of stuff that turns citizens into people with nothing to lose. And it is completely unnecessary.

There is a wonderful statement by Bill Moyers explaining what has and is happening in the US today. It's a little long but the content is outstanding.

@ Dana and Brianna - Thank you for your kind replies. :blush: When I posted that, I had just finished sending a bunch of e-mails to Congress and the energy sort of overlapped here.

It's early in the news reporting on Occupy Oakland, but I'm thinking
the events of yesterday are getting a bad rap in the news media.

I've been reading as many news reports as I can,
and the text of reports do say demonstrations were calm and non-violent.
There were large crowds of marchers in various parts of Oakland,
and the Port of Oakland was blocked... with no violence.
Yes, there was some vandalism and a few broken windows,
which was condemned by Occupy Oakland leaders.
When police cleared those areas, it was done peacefully.
Only one person was injured... a marcher hit by a passenger car.

But the headlines are, almost without exception, portraying the events
as deteriorating into "violence and chaos".

The main "violence" seems to have been a nightime bonfire that was lit
at an intersection - in groups of metal trash cans that had been pushed together.
OK, that makes for a dangerous situation,
and the police were justified in ordering the crowd to disperse.

It reported that order was given police close to the bonfire,
speaking directly to people in the immediate vicinity.
But almost immediately the area was filled with teargas and flashbombs.

Several people report they were not aware of the order to disperse.
Further, they report that when people ran from the teargas,
they were beaten by the police and ordered to remain still.
When people stayed in place, they were arrested.

If the general public reads only today's headlines, I'm convinced
they will be mislead to believe the entire Occupy Oakland went badly.

I was amused by (if I remember correctly) a news report on Nightly Business Report. Bloomberg wanted to remove the Occupy Wall Street encampment for health and sanitary reasons. The report on his concern and intent showed people sweeping and cleaning around and inside their tents. The audio from Mayor Bloomberg completely contradicted what almost all the video showed. Bloomberg later conceded. The encampment remains.

Never forget why the government must cut a $trilllion from the budget. We are now paying a $trillion for Mission Accomplished. Who lied about that war? Who gets to suffer for it?

I think the general public has learned to be skeptical of the media. People who are opposed to the Occupy movement will point to the headline with glee (think Merc), but many others will read the entire story.

And Occupy Denver is doing some great stuff (hate to disappoint you, UT). They are moving the occupation to the front of the Federal Building on Saturday so as not to impede the Veteran's Parade which is scheduled for that day. Very many appreciative comments and thanks to the vets on the Occupy Denver blog. After the parade, Occupy will return to their regular place.

And best of all, Michael Moore is coming to give a talk to the Occupy Denver folks today! I'd love to be there for that.

However, I have a tentative plan to drive over to Denver the week of November 23rd. Hell, its only 400 miles and It feels like the right thing to do. I'll be with a group advocating the end of corporate government on the same day that government announces my and many other's fate.

Camping in downtown Denver at the age of 60 - I'm insane! But everyone here is aware of that already. :yesnod:

I addressed that a few posts back.

I was walking around on my lunch hour, and my path took me past the second site in DC where these guys are camped out. This place had more critical mass than the one I reported on a couple weeks ago. It's on K street in the heart of the lobbyists. And the park, McPherson Square, was completely full of tents and people. I was actually offered a box lunch when I walked past, because someone (some registered nurses group) had given out a ton of lunches, and they had a lot left over.

We are also paying for loaning money to people who could not afford the loans they got and/or were too ignorant to understand what they signed on for and the subsequent bailout of those banks.

Thats really cool glatt. I think that is great, but it is bringing a lot of people who are not interested in anything other than free food or whatever to "hang out" with the demonstrators. These people are, my guess, causing most of the crime problems that some in the media are reporting.

The financial outfits that made the loans are equally if not more to blame. They got to get bailed out by the tax payer at the same time that many Americans were losing their homes.

I didn't mean to imply that the banks were innocent in any way, shape or form.

BUT - I have not heard one person who had a gun held to their head at closing.

I woke up singing this song in my head today.

Those folks in LA are really doing the protests justice. When is the Rape count going to go up?

Apparently not until you get there. :D

I agree with Merc, those folks in LA are really doing the protests justice...
His question about rape is just Merc being silly

In reverse chronological order:

Nov 3, 2011

Nov 2. 2011
Oct 26, 2011

How's this for coincidence...

Michael Moore was on national TV today, talking about his experiences this week,
visiting some of the various Occupy XXXX sites across the country.

When asked about the "violence" his response was two-fold.
First, he said the various Occupy groups are all opposed to violence,
and were taking steps to avoid and stop it.
Secondly, he said that if you see someone vandalizing or deliberately breaking the law,
you can be reasonably sure they are outside the movement,
and are probably infiltrating the group to stir up trouble.
Maybe they are anarchists, maybe vandals, maybe something else.

Then...the lead segments tonight on local TV news...

The "real" Occupy Portland has abandoned the downtown
encampment because it has lost it's sense of direction.

Interviews with 4 people who claim to be the "real" Occupy Portland,
say the movement is no longer focused, and they have left the encampment,
and that they are taking up collections to help the homeless.
The four say the encampment is filled with homeless and rats,
and that the "real" Occupy Portland is no longer able to stay there.
The TV reporter repeatedly addresses these four people as the "real" Occupy Portland.

The next news segment is that the Portland Police Union (not PDX Police) announces
"it has lost patience with the homeless who are now occupying the encampment area",
The Police Union is urging everyone to write to the Mayor and City Council
to have the area cleared immediately.

Now, what do we think is going to happen next ?
.

Dunno, but Moore flying around to visit all the different sites isn't helping, in my estimation. He is as divisive as they come.

He's not divisive, he just has a strong viewpoint and a strong following. Fahrenheit 9/11 was the highest-grossing documentary of all time, and Bowling for Columbine and Sicko also place in the top ten highest-grossing documentaries. If you truly listened to him you might even agree with him sometimes.

The people who hate him aren't ever gonna listen anyway. You know, people like merc.

He is extremely divisive. How well his movies did has zero to do with that.
I do agree with him on some things. Again, irrelevant.

The movement appears to have an even bigger problem. Clinton defined it weeks ago on a talk show. The movement needs a message. It has not defined a specific problem or enemy. A general dislike of something vague called Wall Street, although pointed in a right direction, does not define an actual problem(s) or enemy.

As happened so often even during Martin Luther King's marches, anarchist may try to subvert or confiscate a movement. This movement has also had those same people. Anarchy (ie the G-8 in Seattle) harms the message and public image. Surprisingly, without a specific message and even with some anarchy, this movement still survives.

Pollsters are also detecting the foundation of another movement. Unusual extreme hate has been detected in another group. Some oldest voters who are typically Republicans are expressing more than just opinions on what has happened to the nation. Nothing from this group has yet jelled into an actual movement or demonstrations. But the emotions exist to make it possible.

Could you give us a link?

Whereas he did not identify the underlying details, Michael Moore did identify the overall attitude and symptoms that would finally result in a GM bankruptcy. The documentary was called Roger and Me. It showed consequences of those major and ignored problems. Including the ridiculous solutions implemented to accomplish nothing.

Sometimes serious problems take that long to be corrected by bankruptcy. Eastman Kodak is an ongoing example of how long problems can be ignored until even the spread sheets finally identify it. Moore had accurately identified or discussed many serious problems. Some of those problems would rather be ignored by many as non- problems or someone else's problem.

I believe if you check out Occupy Wall Street's Call to Action, you'll get a pretty clear idea of the message.

Sam, were you just being ironic with that link ?



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Sorry. It was a radio report that summarized a recent poll. Do not even remember which news service was reporting it. Maybe NPR. Maybe ABC. But that factoid caught my attention. It is a type of fact that, by itself, is only rumor. But from a source responsible enough that the rumor should be watched for in future polls.

Yep. When I originally bookmarked it, it was a form to send an e-mail to the Representative in question. Then when I tried to click on it later - poof! It had vanished. Go figure. :right:

Say, wasn't that in the Third Party thread?

This is probably SamIam's missing Call to Action.

LOL! Are we all having trouble with links today or what?

try this one
She just put it in wrong.

ETA - missed the posts in between ... AGAIN.

Advise the Advisor
 

The White House is looking for ideas on how to create jobs without going through Congress. If you have any, you can now submit them directly:

From: Nancy-Ann DeParle, The White House (info@messages.whitehouse.gov)
Date: Friday, November 04, 2011 3:28 PM
To: [sign up distribution]
Subject: You Tell Me

[Email edited/condensed by sexobon]

" ... If you have an idea for something President Obama can do without the help of Congress, or know of a program in your community that needs to go nationwide, I want to hear from you. ... And as the Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy, I want to make sure that the President hears about plenty of proposals ... For the past few weeks, I've been leading a series of meetings here at the White House to come up with steps we can take right now to create more jobs -- without Congress. ...That's why President Obama has signed orders to streamline research grants for entrepreneurs, help families refinance their mortgages, and make it easier for graduates to repay their student loans. ... Now we're looking for more ideas just like these, concrete steps we can take right away to put people back to work and help make communities stronger. ... Submit your recommendations at WhiteHouse.gov/Advise. I'm really looking forward to hearing what you have to say."

The message?

There are lots of specific things that people are angry about, which does lead to this 'no clear message' appearance.

Most of these specific complaints can be traced back to the way the political arm of government (as opposed to the administrative arm) is functioning (or disfunctioning) at present.

And this is traced back to one complaint that almost everyone at the Occupy movements seems to share. The super-rich have too much influence in politics - so much that they have essentially taken control and are running it for themselves. The majority of western governments, which are supposed to be various kinds of democratic republics, have been corrupted into plutocracies with regular show elections.

Most people accept that money will always bring influence, and that this cannot be eliminated entirely. However, it CAN be reduced, in some cases by a great deal. This, I think, is the core demand of the Occupy movement.


tl;dr version: Less plutocracy, more democracy.

Exactly!

Then they all better start going after their governmental reps and stop wasting time on wall street and/or whatever. THAT is where the change will have to come from.
The Big bad corp execs will laugh at them in the cold rain and snow.

Thats one of the things that sorta bugged me about occupy philly. seemed as though all the protesters were standing around singing and dancing, banging drums or playing music. They weren't really "protesting" or at least what I thought that meant.
Then again, I went early on, maybe its different now. Doesn't seem like it from on tv though.

I'm sure there are drum circles. :lol:

Well, you've got to do something to keep yourself, you know, occupied. :D

Thanks folks, I'll be here all winter, try the spit-roast squirrel.

Seriously, the ongoing presence is enough of a protest. And I think the location is as good as any, and better than in Washington. If it was in Washington, aimed at the politicians, it would be easy to focus on the failures of politics and so overlook (what I think is) the central claim, that the problem is the relation between the very rich, as symbolised by Wall Street, and politics a la Washington.

What good would it do to go after the government reps? In my experience, they hardly even ever read any letters I send them. Now and then I'll get a form letter for reply.

My congressman isn't going to listen to me. I can't afford to put a few crisp new thousand dollar bills in the envelope along with my letter. :right:

That's the problem - they prefer used 10s and 20s, with non-consecutive serial numbers.

Silly me. I should have known that. I'll run over to our local money launderer right now and exchange all my thousand dollar bills.

:eyebrow:

They're the ones who can enact change.
You really think a thousand people out front of their office is gonna be ignored? F*kkers gotta leave sometime...

Of course they won't be ignored. The Senator or Congressman will simply lift up his phone, and before you can even shout "freedom," SWAT will be there in force with tear gas and tasers as well as their guns. The next day you'll read in the paper how terrorists tried to take over Senator Slimebelly's office, but thank God they were captured and are now being questioned at Gitmo which has been reopened for just such an eventuality. :cop:

I hope that post was in jest, because it would be all over the internet.
The MSM would have a friggin field day with that move.

The congresspeeps can bring about change. They just don't want to. They have been nicely fed and tamed by the plutocrats. They've got "consultancy" deals to look forward to.

PDX Mayor Sam Adams is between a rock and hard place.
The Portland Police Association (union) is one, Occupy Portland is the other.
So far, our Mayor has made the right decisions.
Hopefully, Mayor Bloomberg can continue to do the same.

ABC News
Nov 6, 2011
.

It was my twisted sense of humor coming out. Things aren't that bad. Yet. :unsure: