The Cellar - The Loyal Opposition

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- - The Loyal Opposition (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=32499)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 986691)

Political Debating 201: Whenever possible, widen the problem to include everyone.

Because 10-35% of Americans is totally acceptable. Any more than that? FAKE NEWS!

I hardly think it's fair to attempt to rule out "scope of issue" as a relevant topic, when it was the entire topic of the post I was responding to.

When deciding if a federal regulation, which of course applies to everyone, is good or bad, should you only be concerned with the people you know it affects right now, and not the people it affects you don't know about, or people who may be affected later?

The problem has been not Nigerians getting Grandma's check, it's advising people to make the wrong choices to increase commissions and fees. It's like the guy that arranges to put the excess from rounded off math into his account and makes millions.

Boeing sued the outfit that was handling their employees 401Ks for shit like that.

It's not everybody with a retirement account. It's not everybody who gets a social security check. It's not everybody in the future.

You're the one with the absolute "ONLY" in your claim. I was claiming "NOT ONLY"; I wasn't claiming "EVERYBODY".

But the people it IS? ƒuck those people

Maybe, you don't know. Neither do I, but I know it's a significant amount of people. I've talked to several people lately, probably because it's tax time, who said they just don't understand the information sent to them by the advisor handling their retirement account. The advisors know that, so it provides plenty of opportunity. After a couple high profile people get fucked over for big sums it makes the news it gets noticed.

You know, I've never wanted to discuss stuff less with people. Have fun storming the castle, you win I'm out.

Again, from Investopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Investopedia

Annuity vendors also will have disclose their commissions to clients, which could significantly reduce sales of these products in many cases. These vehicles have been the source of major controversy among industry experts and regulators for decades, as they usually pay very high commissions to the agents selling them, and come with an array of charges and fees that can significantly reduce the returns that clients earn with them
....
The main impact is anticipated to be connected with IRAs, since these vehicles are often handled at brokerages. In particular, rollovers from 401(k) plans to IRAs will certainly come under scrutiny. There have been many instances reported in the financial press (and likely tens of thousands more in reality) about advisors suggesting rollovers to IRAs, even though it may not have been in the client’s best interest – either in terms of moving the client’s money out of a low-cost company retirement plan that offered solid investment choices or in terms of the types of high-cost investments recommended in the new IRA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 986709)

You know, I've never wanted to discuss stuff less with people. Have fun storming the castle, you win I'm out.

Oh I see, it's got to be your parameters, your rules, your pre planned discussion, or you take your marbles and go home.:rolleyes:

The first thing in any debate is establishing what you're debating and both(or more) parties understanding and agreeing on it. we haven't established whether we're debating the value of the law, or if it's just a political bone, or the segment of the population it affects directly, or if it will actually curb abuses by evil people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (paraphrase)

If my obtuse, disingenuous, and self-contradicting debate style has you furstrated, wait until you see my "Jewish mother laying a guilt trip on you" routine!

he'll be here all week, try the veal

now we should feel bad because politics are our fault

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 986661)

Financial planners are under-regulated? Here is a "problem" that ONLY affects the upper middle class. It's not exactly the 1%, but it's the 10%-35% who care about this, but good on protecting them and stuff, they are the new Democratic Party after all. Since they are the electorate, they are going to need to be focused on, in the next few decades. Well not "need". They don't "need" but sure enough they will get attention!

You got a financial planner Biggie? Corporate or independent?

Your take on this issue was horseshit, and you were an asshole about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 986716)

Breathe, Flint :p

There is no air in the internet cloud. Even the cloud is only virtual.