I strongly disagree. I think there IS something to see here. Several people have expressed their displeasure with a disruptive presence within the community, and ignoring the problem will only drive away the valued participants and leave those of you who chose not to fight in the company of the few problem posters.

You are right in that it is not a moderator's role to weed out the unpopular amongst us. However, it is the Admin's role to foster an environment that is conducive to maximum participation by all members. Or at least, should be in my opinion. When a few are persistently and apparently willfully ruining that environment, and are unwilling or unable to stop it.....they need to be stopped. Again, IMO.

If, after all of this, Ute decides that inaction is the best course, then so be it. And you'll have more of the same. Won't that be lovely.

I still think the conversation was worth having though. If nothing else I suspect it's drawn some people's attention to what they're doing in here :P

Yeah, I think just the talking about it helps.

Well you offered two courses of action, one impossible, one banning. I'm still trying to figure out which is the better option.

Ban lumberjim and the whole "problem" just goes away!

http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/usergroup_add

OR

http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/user_infractions

looks like there are somethings that can be done short of ousting people....

HM - I seriously doubt that you would feel the same if you agreed with his viewpoint.
SG - Hmm, perhaps. I think you may have nailed it.

I took myself out of the equation by putting them on ignore, but I will throw in my 2 cents here...

It seems to me, that over the past year+ any mention of anything negative about the current admin or their "team" gets hammered by the same clique. If there is anything other than praise for their "team" and what they do, then they get shitty.

The pigpile on themerc has been going on for a long time though and I find it very tiring. Redux has his ardent supporters. He comes in right after his posts with the same old tired policy line that one can get anywhere. They the others follow with the snide carping and adolescent worthlessness.
Merc, conversely has... well himself.

Many times I post something I found "interesting" or that I want to share with the cellar. I used to look for your (plural) opinions and viewpoints on that. Lately, all my posting in CE or Politics has been followed with a virtually immediate reply by him where he consistently states his party line or talking points. I can get that on the WH website, huffpo, msnbc... take your pick. My initial post was more often than not, already in response in response to that which was in the news - the party line. No need for him to regurgitate the same thing. The spiral continues. Dissension will not be allowed. You will be talked over. Irritating? Yup. Condescending attitude? yes. His opinion? Those who disagree are less intelligent and or lesser people W/E. I'm sorry, I'm getting off track.

I am not defending my actions. I am guilty of being an ass. Right now, I don't care anymore - I'm disgusted, both with myself and in general. I've been rereading a lot of what I have posted and I'm embarrassed. It is so contrary to the person I am IRL. I've even been discussing this with several current and past dwellars over the last few months. I've censored myself the best I can by putting them all on ignore.
For which I was again ridiculed. here. I also offered an option here. Aside from lookout, I was ignored.

I'm really not sure bans or infractions are the way to go tbh. Because two people can do exactly the same thing and that lead to entirely different responses. One may end up getting an infraction and then the other should also get an infraction but maybe doesn't really deserve it.

How do you actually measure what it is that is wrong here? Is it a personal attack? Well, if we can't all tell each other to fuck off, then really it takes something away from us as a group I feel. Is it a style of argument? Well, again, some people use a style and I find it abrasive and unpleasant, whilst others can say exactly the same thing and somehow it doesn't have the same sting.

I don't think my reading of the situation has anything to do with sharing Redux's political views at all. I just think it is unfair to single him out. I also don;t think it's fair to single Classic out. I don't think he does anything particularly wrong. If you actually look at any one of these discussions it is really very difficult to say who is in th wrong ( in terms of style not substance). But I find Merc's particular manner of arguing in political matters very annoying and offputting. There are others (I am not going to start naming names, lets not add to this any further ;p) who have the opposite political views to Merc that I find equally annoying and frustrating.

ban your face!

Here's a quater, call-------

ban your ƒuckin cock you fat sh!t for brains

If lumberjim and Flint get each other banned, that'll leave jinx and Pooka for me. Eureka! I've hit the MILF mother lode.

I demand that you ban this motherƒucker!!!1

That brings to mind grim images of breastmilk shooting out of control for some reason...

Classic - I only put that option in there in the interest of total honesty.
My liking for Dwellars is not based on political ideals - Dana and I share an ideology (to an extent) but most people here are to the right of me and I adore them.
I will admit Merc's opinions have ticked me off in the past. Purely his opinions. But I've had much more of a problem with his responses. Until yes, I started to avoid any thread with that kind of conflict in it in case I was drawn to make sniping remarks myself.

I think the Cellar would be damaged far more by censorship than it is by petty arguments. If we are a community, really a community, we should be able to bring pressure to bear without resorting to strong-arm moderation. Isn't that what people say the Muslim community should be doing? (Okay, horrible comparison :)) I value free speech. And that's your (plural) fault. Let's work this out ourselves.

I wouldn't feel identical. Being irritated that a troll agrees with me is different from a troll I disagree with. Maybe worse.