Oh, I am SO sick of this "innocent person being executed" argument. Anti-death penalty folks always fall back on that argument, much the same as they've accused us of falling back on the "an executed murderer will never kill again" argument.

What with the appeals process, DNA testing, and the like, PROVEN murderers rarely get executed.


Sidhe

Isn't that something you want to change?

The execution of innocents isn't something to "fall back on". It is the most immediate and practical problem with the death penalty. Arguing the fundamental morality of the death penalty can be interesting, but it is moot while innocents are on death row.

Ah, so us anti-dp folks ALWAYS do this, but when it comes to the pro-dp folks, it's just an accusation...interesting.

I enjoy debating a topic such as this, but when you blur the boundaries between opinion and fact then smear the opposition on top of it without provocation, a debate ceases being a debate. It becomes a shit-throwing festival.

Unless, of course, its you. I mean, seriously, if it IS you then won't you be glad we are here - fighting for your right? Or would you still just want us to wish away the anomolies in the interest of vanquishing the grey area between the end points. Do you really want to become one with the moss just to prove your point?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. What I'm saying is that the antis' basic argument is that an innocent person might be executed; the pros' basic argument is that an executed murderer will never kill again. Where's the shit-throwing?



Sidhe

My life is so unbelievably boring that if ever I were accused of murder, I think I'd die of a heart attack before I got to trial.

Seriously...if OJ can't get convicted when there is ungodly amounts of DNA evidence to prove his guilt, then I think little carless ol' me won't have a problem. What are they gonna say I did? WALKED to the crime scene, killed someone just for shits and giggles, then walked home? I'm WAAAY too lazy to put forth that much effort, and I've got a busload of people who will testify to that ;) (right, TS?) If that doesn't work, I'll just say they're attacking me because I'm a Native American female. I'm sure somebody'll jump on the race and gender bandwagon. They always do.

Besides, one has a choice between a jury trial and a bench trial. You think I'd be stupid enough to put my fate in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty?


Sidhe

Of course I'd like to see it changed. I don't want innocent people to die any more than you do. But if we KNOW someone is guilty, I say FRY 'EM.

If people are so concerned with the idea that innocent people may be executed, then why don't they start a fund to do DNA testing on these people (or whatever they think will clear them)? DO something about it, and then we can execute the ones who AREN'T innocent.

Besides, unless you have an eyewitness to the murder, there's NEVER going to be a 100% certainty. You can't ask for 100%, because we don't have the technology to facilitate that...yet.

Like those kids in England. They're guilty. Everyone knows they're guilty. Charles Manson is guilty, and everyone knows it (for those who say that he never actually killed someone, the law says that if you hire a killer, or otherwise cause a person to be killed, that you are guilty of murder as well). If we know the individual(s) is/are guilty, where's the problem?


Sidhe

Here's a little info I found:


This year, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), and Rep. William Delahunt (D-MA), introduced the "Innocence Protection Act" (H.R. 912 and S. 486), a bill that would provide new safeguards in capital cases. 234 Representatives, and 25 Senators have cosponsored the House and Senate Bills respectively.

For more info on this, here's a website:
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/legi...A?OpenDocument


Here are some stats on race, as of Jan 01, 2002:

Race--Number--Percent

White-- 1,701 -- 46.71%

Black -- 1,562 -- 42.77%

Hispanic-- 312 -- 8.54%

Native American -- 45 -- 1.23%

Asian -- 32 -- 0.88%


The average time between sentencing and execution is 9 & 1/2 years.



Sidhe

Andrea Yates anyone? Wasn't it told that she was a paranoid schizophrenic when she was a teenager or something?

Wolf said:
(There are two kinds of justice: Regular or Extra Crispy)

Precisely.

LS:
If we know the individual(s) is/are guilty, where's the problem?

Hell, I don't see any. Let the executions begin. :mad:

AND would get a transplant sooner than I would! :mad: :mad:

Quote:

The victim, most people forget, IS innocent. No maybe about it. The victim's family and friends are innocent. What about them? If a criminal is found guilty, and I think DNA should be mandatory, then eliminate him. Society is more important than one who preys on society. I sincerely believe that there are those who are such a danger to society that they deserve to be eliminated. I resent having to pay their bills. What's the point of warehousing them if we're not going to use them? Give them a choice: Death or the Lab. Either way they pay society back, rather than just getting a free ride. Sidhe

Can't really disagree with any of that. I'm just the revengeful type. God forbid someone did harm to Syc, his family or my family, and was 100% guilty (meaning there was NO room for error, misjudgments, etc.). :rar: :rar: :rar:

If you were savagely murdered, I would not want that person to receive the death penalty.

Hell fucking yes.

Quote:

THAT is justice. Do unto that fucker as he did to the victim.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

I quoted the Buddha, not Jesus. Making arguments about the contradictions found in the Bible when responding to the words of a Buddhist teaching is the equivalent of arguing about the declension of Latin nouns while taking a class in Swahili.

Well, yes, they should be held accountable, but in many situations, it *is* on the parents to be responsible enough to bring up their children in a safe, stable home, and therefore reduce the *risk* of those children turning to a life of crime.

So what then? Just make that person deny their true feelings for the sake of people who don't agree? IMO, feeling revengeful, etc. is part of being human...notice I didn't say that EVERY human has to feel this way, nor will they always act on that feeling, so why not let them have their "moment"? For some, that is quite theraputic (as opposed to keeping al that emotion bottled up inside).

Quote:

3. Does the value of a human life vary according to the individual? Why is it right to take the life of another person, because (*screaming child) 'he did it first' (*screaming child)?? Could YOU push the button on the electric chair?

If someone killed my family, loved ones..damn right I could.

Quote:

Someone's got to do it. Should they die too? It's PERPETUAL it is NEVERENDING you cannot overcome hate and fear with hate and fear. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Why is it so difficult to comprehend that some people are going to feel that way..period? Just because YOU wouldn't DARE feel that way, don't say that others don't have the right to do so.


"Your right doesn't make me wrong." (told to me by a very wise man)