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-   -   Horrifying gang rape & assault on mother & son (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=14813)

Radar 07-18-2007 07:57 AM

Well, that's my main problem with the courts. They try to "interpret" a document that was written in simple English. It doesn't require interpretation. It isn't vague or ambiguous in the slightest. It means exactly what it says and in any case where someone has a question, the tie goes to the runner meaning if there's a case where a power could belong to the government or the people, it belongs to the people.

yesman065 07-18-2007 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicero (Post 365042)
They could impress each other with the make and model of their new wheelchairs.

They don't need wheelchairs - they can still walk around????

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 365098)
Either the judicial system is there to ensure justice, or it's there to provide vengeance. Individual victims may seek vengeance, but society, I believe, should provide justice.

Where does prevention come in or rehabilitation??? I don't think that putting these kids in jail for any period of time is "punishment." They probably have many friends and family members there already anyway - and when they get out they just wear the fact that they were in as a badge of honor.

As for rehab - There is no rehabbing anyone who does something like this - they should simply be shot, injected or whatever - Instead of spending OUR money on keeping them alive, lets put it toward the children that are savable. The judicial system is full of people who are NEVER coming out and we are all paying for them - dearly I might add.

xoxoxoBruce 07-18-2007 09:27 AM

Just think of the billions we spend to keep those evil pot smokers locked up.

Undertoad 07-18-2007 09:34 AM

It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.

xoxoxoBruce 07-18-2007 09:37 AM

Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?

yesman065 07-18-2007 09:40 AM

Lets instead use that money for some real rehabilitatable individuals or something where we can actually make a beneficial difference to/for society - not just neatly hiding the evildoers in a corner and feeling good that they were "punished." Wipe this scum off the face of the earth and move on. Help those that want, we can, and deserve our help.

Radar 07-18-2007 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage (Post 365085)
Exactly, justice is never vengeance and vengeance is never justice.

Punishment for crimes is not vengeance and it is justice.

Radar 07-18-2007 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 365317)
Unusual is pretty easy, cruel is quite open to interpretation, however.

Wait a minute... If it says cruel and unusual, does that mean it can be cruel if it's not unusual? Or unusual if it's not cruel?

That's exactly what it means. It means a judge can sentence you to stand with a sandwich board around you on a corner that says you are a pedophile. This is unusual, but not cruel.

yesman065 07-18-2007 09:53 AM

re: cruel and unusual punishment - Since putting them in prison or juvenile detention doesn't seem to work - JUST a question or 2.

Is the thought of going to jail a deterrent to these types of people? Apparently not - therefore...

Would the thought of their life ending VERY quickly? And I meaqn without years of delays and appeals? I gotta think that even the most immoral assholes gotta value, if nothing else their lives.

Kintups 07-18-2007 09:59 AM

Who's to blame ?
 
It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by nationl Television. The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators.

Radar 07-18-2007 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad (Post 365315)
It's not the meaning of the word "and" that requires interpretation, it's the meaning of the words "cruel" and "unusual".

Dwellars please follow: according to Radar's "no interpretation necessary" understanding of the US Constitution, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is not "cruel and unusual".

There's no stronger case for the need for court interpretation, instead of Radar non-interpretation. Luckily the framers left the job of interpretation up to the courts instead of just assuming we'd all understand what it says.

The framers gave the courts no such "interpretation" powers in the Constitution. Also, having a wild animal chew off a prisoner's genitals is very cruel, but if applied widely to a lot of people it's not unusual. Therefore it's not cruel AND unusual.

There are many who would agree that this is an appropriate form of punishment for child molesters.

yesman065 07-18-2007 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kintups (Post 365330)
It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by nationl Television. The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators.

Uh, no I don't think so - for many reasons.

Kintups 07-18-2007 10:15 AM

It seems fitting that the guilt be burdened by the parents of these criminals. Their death sentence be made manditory to be viewed in person by their parents. As well as full coverage by national Television.
.
The ones who raised these children are certainly more to blame than the perpetrators. Overall more effective on Societys main issue. "Raising the future generations members".
.
Put the blame where it belongs.

yesman065 07-18-2007 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesman065 (Post 365339)
Uh, no I still don't think so - for many reasons.


wolf 07-18-2007 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgentApathy (Post 365009)
These "kids" committed a very adult crime. They planned it, and worse yet, they planned it en masse, even to the point of bringing condoms. That alone shows that they knew what they were planning was wrong because they hoped to conceal it, all before actually committing it.

Let's be fair. They may not have planned bringing along the condoms.

Their school probably gave the rubbers to them.


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