The Cellar - Understanding terrorism

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)

- Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - Understanding terrorism (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=8717)

Oh, yes it would be -- we all aspire to greater-than-trailer-trashiness, at least in our heart of hearts, even if we fear we wouldn't be as politically correct to be the animals more equal than the others.

Nyah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

UG, I don't understand why Saddam isn't allowed to impose his way on people but you are? :confused:

"My way" is the free way, the libertarian way. Study this way, and it will become your way also -- at least if you're not a fascist or other hidebound, slaveminded objectionabloid.

What I "impose" is the destruction of the tyrants. What the people do when the fallen tyrants' boot leaves their collective neck is not imposed. Do you imagine me to be so unsophisticated? Why? Maybe you gotta ask the dumb ones before you can get to the smart questions -- I do that myself.

I'd further remark that Jaguar's "level of understanding" remark suggests he believes his understanding of these matters to be better than mine.

Since his kind of "understanding" is actually a wispy disguise for rationalization for doing nothing at all against the evil that men have to do to work tyranny, totalitarianism, or indeed anything but democracy, it should not be called "understanding" at all, but instead called what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

OK, after you depose the "Tyrant" and another one takes his place, do you depose "Tyrant Jr" also? :confused:

American Islamic Scholars Issue Fatwa Against Terrorism

I'm not in the mood to find those posters who indignantly called for Muslims to forcefully denounce the actions of a vanishingly small minority done in the name of Islam. You know who you are. Perhaps this item will offer you comfort.

Quote:

U.S. Muslim groups have frequently condemned terrorist acts, but the executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Nihad Awad, says issuing a fatwa is the strongest statement that can be made by the Islamic community.

"This is the heaviest weight any opinion can be given. The reason I am saying this is because those who commit acts of terror in the name of Islam try to misinterpret and misuse certain issues in Islamic jurisprudence and they have no authority or qualification except their anger. These legal Muslim scholars come to say we are the authority on this subject and we are the ones who determine how to interpret Islam. Therefore, I don't think any person in the globe can quote the Koran or the traditions of the Prophet [Muhammad] to justify the harming and the killing of innocent people," he said.

HOORAY! It is long overdue. :band:

They even did better than the Vatican by not blaming the victims.

Quote:

Priests for Life denounces the incidents of violence that have occurred against abortion providers. Echoing Pope John Paul II, we declare that "not even a murderer loses his personal dignity" (EV #9).

We also denounce the efforts continuously made by abortion advocates to blame pro-life groups for that violence. If anything, the violence done against abortionists is encouraged by the mentality and actions of those who promote abortion. Briefly, here's why.

Better than the Vatican by not suggesting that retaliation against terror is bad. "We were all set to denounce the terror attack, but the stupid Jews blew up the people responsible before we could say anything."

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

OK, after you depose the "Tyrant" and another one takes his place, do you depose "Tyrant Jr" also? :confused:

Of course! Why do you ask? -- would you do something different? Level with me: do you honestly prefer leaving tyrants unmolested?

Consider this: do not the people who would rather live free, and let others live the same way, not outnumber the slavemakers and the slave-minded?

When are you going to ask tougher questions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

So people are only free to choose what you want them to choose. That just makes you a tyrant with a bigger stick. Forcing pet rabbits out of their cage to die in the woods is not doing them any favor. :eyebrow:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

I'm sure that the key people who matter know that the "war" is really on radical Islamism, not al Qaeda.

On Wednesday night The Daily Show mocked the semantic shift in the administration because they have stopped calling it "The Global War on Terror" and have started calling it "The Global Struggle against Violent Extremism".

One can suppose that they don't reference Islam directly because it focuses too many people at Islam in general, reinforcing racism and intolerance and pissing off moderate Muslims.

This just in Chicago Trib. Another item inline with BigVs:

Quote:

Muslim scholars: Terrorists not martyrs

Items compiled from Tribune news services
Published July 29, 2005

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- American Muslim scholars on Thursday carried out their plan to issue an edict condemning religious extremism and calling terrorists "criminals, not `martyrs.'"

The 18-member Fiqh Council of North America said Muslims were barred from helping "any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence."

"There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism," the scholars wrote in the edict, called a fatwa. "Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram--or forbidden."

The fatwa states that Muslims are obligated to help "protect the lives of all civilians."

Islam has no central authority, and the council serves an advisory role for U.S. Muslims.

<SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript type=text/javascript></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.1 src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/ads?client=ca-tribune_news_html&dt=1122652806391&adsafe=high&lmt=1122652806&num_ads=5&output=js&channel=chictribune_news&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chicagotribune.com%2Fnews%2Fnationworld%2Fchi-0507290113jul29%2C1%2C2637499.story%3Fcoll%3Dchi-newsnationworld-hed&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2Fnwshp%3Fhl%3Den%26gl%3Dus&cc=411&u_h=1024&u_w=1280&u_ah=994&u_aw=1280&u_cd=32&u_tz=-420&u_his=13&u_java=true"></SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT>&ampampampnbsp&ampampampnbsp&ampampampnbsp&ampampampnbsphttp://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imp.gif?client=ca-tribune_news_html&ampampampampevent=noscript</NOSCRIPT>
Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune

This sort of thing needs to spread to other muslim countries. Unfortunately, those guys over there don't recognize these guys over here as true islam followers. It's a start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

This just in Chicago Trib. Another item inline with BigVs:

This sort of thing needs to spread to other muslim countries. Unfortunately, those guys over there don't recognize these guys over here as true islam followers. It's a start.

Perhaps, but the guys over here recognize the guys over there as criminals, not as martyrs. The mantle of religious justification has been removed, with authority. Unfortunately, like any legal system, the laws only restrain the law abiders, not the lawbreakers. This is not an Islamic phenomenon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

Unfortunately, like any legal system, the laws only restrain the law abiders, not the lawbreakers. This is not an Islamic phenomenon.

More relevantly, and also not an Islamic phenomenon, laws only restrain anybody within their jurisdiction. As Fareed Zacharia said on the Daily Show, (paraphrased) Islam has no Pope, so there's nobody to say [worldwide] that terrorism isn't kosher. A fatwa will only be observed by those who recognize the authority of the issuer.

Even if islam had a "Pope," it still wouldn't help. Look how many so called "Christian" religeons we have. Catholics have the Pope, but there were those who disagree with the Catholic church so they break away. Now you have Episcipalian. You got Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, all believing that they are right and the other is wrong. If there was a central islamic figurehead, the extermist would still do what they want, citing that their interest are a much better way for islam and would find and distort scripture to back it up.