The Cellar - Getting Ugly in Russia

The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)

- Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - Getting Ugly in Russia (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=6679)

Quote:

The vast majority of terrorists are fighting because they've lost a family member or a close friend or a home or a life in the war that they are now participating in. If we stop killing mothers, their sons will stop turning into terrorists.

Sounds logical in theory but when you add religeous zealots into the mix, logic goes out the window. When you have a cleric or nutjob, with an agenda, and that person is in a position of/to influence kids, the recruiting will continue. Teenagers are restless and rebellious the world over. ;)

Having much experience with restless, rebellious teens (back when I had faith in humanity, I was a Utopian Anarchist) I can tell you that it is very, very hard to incite organized violence. The religious zealots will create movements, and there will be some followers, but history shows the common thread that violent groups are spawned by violent conditions. For a globe-spanning, resilient terrorist network to form, there must be an incredible number of people working actively (actually doing the work) or passively (providing monetary and other resources), and removing the violence that drives these people will, if not completely eliminate, then will at least take a huge bite out of the resources of these extremists. Look at the group we're dealing with in this thread, the Black Widows. Black WIDOWS!!!!. Victims of violence turning to violence.

It turns out the "Black Widows" appear to be in a minor supporting role in this mess, unlike the airline crashs. I don't think the teens have to be pissed, just nothing to do and nothing to lose. :)

Alphageek, you make a lot of sense.

Bruce, fair point on the rebellious nature of teenagers.

And yet, Alph, 9/11 created a lot of American WIDOWS!! a few of whom were actually against the Iraq war. What's up with that??

David Warren points out:

Quote:

Half the terrorist corpses so far identified were Arabs, and the rest other international Jihadis, plus a few locally-recruited Ossetes.

Arabs and internationals. Put that in your root causes computer and see what it comes up with. Here's what Warren comes up with:

Quote:

What has developed in Chechnya today, however, and is now spreading through other Russian-ruled, Muslim territories, is something new. The background history only partially explains it: the real source of disturbance is now outside. There were large numbers of Chechen and other "ex-Soviet Muslim" Jihadis in the training camps of Afghanistan, before the Americans cleaned them out; and many of these have since washed up in Iraq, Yemen, even Indonesia. Reciprocally, the "Afghan Arabs", mixed with others coming directly from Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, have taken over the Chechen "independence" movement.

The several irruptions of full-blown war in Chechnya during the last decade -- suppressed by the Russians only when they descended to something like savagery -- were themselves triggered by incidents in which international terrorists played a prominent part. Indeed, President Putin is hoarse from trying to explain this to European and American "human rights" advocates, who blame Russia for creating its Chechen enemies, the way they blame America for somehow creating its enemies in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Most worrying: what the Jihadis have achieved in Chechnya is now being taken as a model for how to succeed everywhere. It is what they are attempting in the Sunni Triangle of Iraq: to use terror as the yeast with which to raise civil war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphageek31337

(back when I had faith in humanity, I was a Utopian Anarchist) .

Good for you. I never had the time or the money to be a Utopian Anarchist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianna

Good for you. I never had the time or the money to be a Utopian Anarchist.

Girl, you crack me up! :biggrin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphageek31337

*The first person to tell me what movie this line is from gets a gold star for the day.

Full Metal Jacket.

Although it's kind of a standard Marine thing to say ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

And yet, Alph, 9/11 created a lot of American WIDOWS!! a few of whom were actually against the Iraq war. What's up with that??

Excuse me for interceding on his question, but he's not online at the moment and I can't go back to sleep.

If I had to guess, the core reason is that they had lost their husbands and were loathe to lose their sons/daughters as well. Personally, I would like to think that they understood that the murdering fuckstick of an Arab that the Iraq War was directed against was not the one that killed their husbands, but I freely admit that the latter is most likely secondary to the former.