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The Cellar (http://cellar.org/index.php)
-   Current Events (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   WikiLeaks (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=24071)

busterb 12-04-2010 11:12 AM
E-3 $1813.20 a month
Boy what a difference 50 years makes. About $1700 bucks worth.

Lamplighter 12-04-2010 11:25 AM
1940 - 1973 Military Draft in effect.
Now a volunteer Army with $ + other benefits.

IMO its now a better situation, except we still "draft"
Reserves and Guard units (and their families) into combat pay.

The same sort of increases have occurred in other professions
such as medical interns where on-duty
hours are reduced and $ and benefits are increased.

tw 12-04-2010 05:45 PM
From the NY Times of 4 DEC 2010:
Quote:
Cables Discuss Vast Hacking by a China That Fears the Web
As China ratcheted up the pressure on Google to censor its Internet searches last year, the American Embassy sent a secret cable to Washington detailing one reason top Chinese leaders had become so obsessed with the Internet search company: they were Googling themselves. ...
Yet despite the hints of paranoia that appear in some cables, there are also clear signs that Chinese leaders do not consider the Internet an unstoppable force for openness and democracy, as some Americans believe.

In fact, this spring, around the time of the Google pullout, China’s State Council Information Office delivered a triumphant report to the leadership on its work to regulate traffic online, according to a crucial Chinese contact cited by the State Department in a cable in early 2010, ...
At least one previously unreported attack in 2008, code-named Byzantine Candor by American investigators, yielded more than 50 megabytes of e-mail messages and a complete list of user names and passwords from an American government agency, a Nov. 3, 2008, cable revealed for the first time.

... “A well-placed contact claims that the Chinese government coordinated the recent intrusions of Google systems. According to our contact, the closely held operations were directed at the Politburo Standing Committee level.” ...

For example, in 2008 Chinese intruders based in Shanghai and linked to the People’s Liberation Army used a computer document labeled “salary increase — survey and forecast” as bait as part of the sophisticated intrusion scheme that yielded more than 50 megabytes of electronic mail messages and a complete list of user names and passwords from a United States government agency that was not identified.

The cables indicate that the American government has been fighting a pitched battle with intruders who have been clearly identified as using Chinese-language keyboards and physically located in China. In most cases the intruders took great pains to conceal their identities, but occasionally they let their guard down. In one case described in the documents, investigators tracked one of the intruders who was surfing the Web in Taiwan “for personal use.”
Where is any of this secret?

tw 12-04-2010 05:54 PM
From the NY Times of 4 Dec 2010:
Quote:
From WikiLemons, Clinton Tries to Make Lemonade
Whatever damage the leaks may do, and nobody doubts it could be substantial, they have showcased the many roles of the Foreign Service officer in the field: part intelligence analyst, part schmoozer, part spy - and to judge by these often artful cables, part foreign correspondent.

TheMercenary 12-06-2010 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Sarge (Post 697878)
The soldier has access to the data via SIPR, just like any other analyst. SIPR only in a secured internet for documents/media with a SECRET or less classification. This soldier has a TS/SCI clearance requiring an in depth background check that most of the public can never pass. After getting the clearance, he is then "read-on" for access. None of this is taken lightly.

Large amounts of classified materials are posted on SIPR in order to facilitate analysis. It is the junior enlisted analyst who is tasked with datamining & preliminary link analysis or trend identification.
You are right, none of this should be taken lightly. I have had a TS/SCI and in some limited cases compartmentalized access. It is not a game. All the more reason to go after Wikileaks. They are trying to hold themselves up a pseudo-news organization, which they are not, and they should not receive any such protections afforded such organizations.

glatt 12-06-2010 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 698626)
It is not a game.
No. It's not.

The reaction from the government is pretty harsh. They have been threatening everyone with a link to Wikileaks. Just off the top of my head, there's Amazon, Paypal, and some domain registration company. I wonder exactly what was said by the government to those companies to get them to pull the plug on Wikileaks so damn fast.

Also reports that the state department is telling at least Columbia University students and Boston University students that if they read any of the Wikileaks materials, they won't be hired in the government. And also Federal government workers being told they could be fired if they read the materials too.

I can understand the US Government trying to crack down on this, but the cat is out of the bag. Threatening people who simply read the secrets is ridiculous. You can't turn on the tv or pick up the paper without seeing a story on one of the released cables.

Shawnee123 12-06-2010 10:08 AM
1 Attachment(s)
:rolleyes:

Lamplighter 12-06-2010 10:28 AM
The soldier who copied and distributed the documents will certainly face a military court.
But once those documents were distributed, there seems to be a consensus developing that
Wikileaks and the news media acted responsibly in the publication of only selected documents,
and little actual damage was done... so far only (justifiable ?) embarrassment.

So, the question may become one of over-reaction.

Good Gossip, and No Harm Done to U.S.
By ALBERT R. HUNT | BLOOMBERG NEWS
Published: December 5, 2010

Quote:
WikiLeaks is one of those stories where the passions of the moment blind us
to what may eventually be seen as the more important lessons.

To be sure, there are embarrassing revelations in the thousands of cables, often raw files.
Arab governments are urging the United States to strike Iran;
the United States and South Korea are gaming China’s reaction to a collapse of North Korea;
the portraits of heads of state aren’t flattering.

This no doubt will complicate some relations as well as American diplomacy for a while.
Despots probably will go out of their way to distance themselves publicly.
Still, rather than exposing ineptitude, a reading of a fair portion of the documents suggests
that they actually reflect well on U.S. policy and diplomacy.<snip>

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who suggested that while the cables were “awkward” and “embarrassing,”
the consequences for U.S. foreign policy are “fairly modest.”
Quote:
It is worth considering this when measuring the cries to lynch Mr. Assange.
Mike Huckabee, a Republican presidential hopeful, wants him executed;
others want to lock him up at Guantánamo Bay.
His actions may be offensive;
it’s not clear they’re prosecutable under the almost century-old Espionage Act.

TheMercenary 12-06-2010 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt (Post 698631)
No. It's not.

The reaction from the government is pretty harsh. They have been threatening everyone with a link to Wikileaks. Just off the top of my head, there's Amazon, Paypal, and some domain registration company. I wonder exactly what was said by the government to those companies to get them to pull the plug on Wikileaks so damn fast.

Also reports that the state department is telling at least Columbia University students and Boston University students that if they read any of the Wikileaks materials, they won't be hired in the government. And also Federal government workers being told they could be fired if they read the materials too.

I can understand the US Government trying to crack down on this, but the cat is out of the bag. Threatening people who simply read the secrets is ridiculous. You can't turn on the tv or pick up the paper without seeing a story on one of the released cables.
I agree. Same goes for people who work at government facilities. I can see them not allowing you to view it at work, but only until recently was it blocked. Once it is out there, it is just out there. That approach seems quite Orwellian. The horse is out of the barn.

But I still say hunt him down and treat him as a terrorist.

TheMercenary 12-06-2010 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 698635)
But once those documents were distributed, there seems to be a consensus developing that
Wikileaks and the news media acted responsibly in the publication of only selected documents,
and little actual damage was done... so far only (justifiable ?) embarrassment.
I would have to say that is pretty much BS. We know for a fact that he put lives of individuals in harms way with the first release. Just because the news organizations have vetted them and done a better job than he has does not make him less culpable.

Lamplighter 12-06-2010 11:47 AM
@ Merc
Quote:
We know for a fact that he put lives of individuals in harms way with the first release.
I've not been into reading any of the publically released documents.
Maybe I should, but I've not yet heard such a specific report.
Right now I'm still going on what I've seen on a TV interview with Assange,
and the (Google News) media reports.

During the TV interview, Assange said Wikipedia staff reviewed the documents and
Wikipedia did not distribute any that were above the "Secret" level of security.
Then there is this from the link I gave above:

Quote:
John Pike of GlobalSecurity.org, a public policy organization focused on national security, says,
“If you can get a credit card, you can get a ‘secret’ clearance.”

TheMercenary 12-06-2010 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplighter (Post 698648)
@ Merc

During the TV interview, Assange said Wikipedia staff reviewed the documents and
Wikipedia did not distribute any that were above the "Secret" level of security.
I really find that very difficult to believe. Cables from overseas would require special access, not just a Secret clearance.

Quote:
“If you can get a credit card, you can get a ‘secret’ clearance.”
Well the point is made but it is definitely an overstatement. Not just "anyone" can get one, but if you have a clear past and an explainable but documented record you should be able to get one with minimal problem. You would be surprised at what you need to go above that. For my TS/SCI Compartmentalized my investigation was nearly 18months long before they finished it. Not for any other reason but that is about how long it takes. It is pretty detailed and for a limited time period before you have a recheck.

Lamplighter 12-06-2010 12:34 PM
Yes, I understand...Something a bit more than Sunday Girl's civilian experience:

TheMercenary 12-06-2010 01:23 PM
Here you go.... Now what would be the purpose of such a release?

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...r-targets.html

Bullitt 12-06-2010 01:55 PM
I was just about to post that Merc. People can claim 1st Amendment, freedom of information, transparency, etc. all they want about Wikileaks, but this newest release shows their true colors. What is the purpose of releasing this list? What evil action by the government does this expose? What justice is being done here? Nothing. There is no use for this list other than by those who wish the US and its allies (since this list includes places overseas such as GB) harm.


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