The Cellar - Middle East erupts

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- - Middle East erupts (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=11231)

Here is a very fine backgrounder on the entire situation.

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Bunkers only mean more jews may die in the invasion.

I'm sure you meant to say "Zionists" or "Israelis".

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Originally Posted by Undertoad

Here is a very fine backgrounder on the entire situation.

Nice.
Money quote for the Internet crowd:

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Meanwhile Hezbollah and its allies both in the region and in the West are and will be waging the mother of all propaganda wars. The task assigned to the propagandists is to stop military operations so that Hezbollah survives and to stop international intervention so that the Lebanese Government collapses. A war of images, photos, mudding, Internet, and media will explode in all directions. Operatives helping Hezbollah, including many with Christian names, will be waging an indiscriminate propaganda offensive against Lebanese, Arab, Western and obviously Israeli figures to spread confusion and psychological collapse in the international community. Objective: Obstruct the implementation of UNSCR 1559, trash the March 14 movement, criticize the Arab Government, and incite for Jihadi violence.

"World War III will be a guerilla information war with no division between civilian and military participation." --Marshall McLuhan

Hizballah understands that completely, and puts on a show for the cameras.

Howard Kurtz/Nic Robertson on "Reliable Sources"

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KURTZ: To what extent do you feel like you're being used to put up the pictures that they want -- obviously, it's terrible that so many civilians have been killed -- without any ability, as you just outlined, to verify, because -- to verify Hezbollah's role, because this is a fighting force that is known to blend in among the civilian population and keep some of its weapons there?

ROBERTSON: Absolutely. And I think as we try and do our job, which is go out and see what's happened to the best of our ability, clearly, in that environment, in the southern suburbs of Beirut that Hezbollah controls, the only way we can get into those areas is with a Hezbollah escort. And absolutely, when you hear their claims they have to come with -- with a -- more than a grain of salt, that you have to put in some journalistic integrity. That you have to point out to the audience and let them know that this was a guided tour by Hezbollah press officials along with security, that it was a very rushed affair.

KURTZ: Right.

ROBERTSON: That there wasn't time to go and look through those buildings. The audience has to know the conditions of that tour. But again, if we didn't get all -- or we could not get access to those areas without Hezbollah compliance, they control those areas.

KURTZ: Right.

ROBERTSON: And I think to bring the audience the full picture of what's happening in Beirut, you have to go into those southern suburbs.

KURTZ: All right.

ROBERTSON: Because that's where the vast majority of bombs were falling.

KURTZ: I understand.

ROBERTSON: Again, they come with a health warning that we cannot vouch for everything that Hezbollah is saying. And I think the audience is sophisticated enough to appreciate that, Howard.

Let us be sophisticated.

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Originally Posted by tw

Only solution to such violence is actions that drive centrists out of extremist ranks. One method is to impose 10% casualties on all sides. Sell weapons freely so that all are suffering massacres. Only when centrists are driven back to a centrist political mindset, then a solution occurs - also called negotiation.

tw, can you give an example where this scenario was attempted and succeeded?

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Originally Posted by dar512

tw, can you give an example where this scenario was attempted and succeeded?

Serbia. No their casulties did not get to 10%. A rapid rise in casulties on the Serbian side (to approach what others were suffering) resulted in Milosevik even negotiating himself out of leadership. Raising casulties that much and that fast empowered centrists to demand better government; to separate themselves from the ranks of extremists.

Israel as a proxy for US policy is hoping for a multinational force in that 20 miles inside Lebanon. Condi Rice is running interference for Israel to attack not just those 20 miles inland, but also any other innocents that might help Hezbollah anytime in the future. There is no other reason for 1 in 5 Lebanonese to now be homeless. It is now US policy to fix things with military pre-emption because the US has declared containment as a failed policy. Somehow we will fix things by killing off 'evil' people.

Condi Rice will go to Rome to recruit nations for that multinational force. Any nation that 'signs on' would be a fool. Interesting will be how much US strongarms some nations. Which leaders have the balls to stand up for their own nations and to oppose the 800 pound guerilla?

Why would anyone want to stop a war between the Hatfields and McCoys. Even worse, this Middle East war is also about religion - a worst type of war. Any nation entering as a peacekeeper will be attacked (even accidently) by both sides and maybe by so many innocent Lebanonese who also become embittered. There is no 'mind set' among any parties for peace. None.

Obviously, a peace keeping force can only work when all sides (there are far more than 2) want peace. That is not and will not be the condition between Hezbollah and Israel. Israel only wants to kill off Hezbollah - a creation of Israeli's most extremist zionists. Hezbollah is basically the only force in Lebanon defending Lebanon from Israeli attacks. You may not believe it. But your isolated perspective does not matter. Only matters is what those locals believe.

And so again, what nation would be so foolish as to enter as an international peacekeeper when both side are so wrong, so violent, and don't really want peace? Both sides want more of what they already have or cannot have.

Israel as a proxy for US politics says Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Literally everywhere in the Middle East - even in a US puppet government in Iraq - all others say otherwise. All others says this administration is wrong. And all others are telling this to US diplomats 'face to face' - because US bias of Hezbollah is considered so wrong in the Middle East - even in Saudi Arabia.

So what will happen in Rome? Will those potential peacekeepers understand the futility of peacekeeping? Most interesting will be which world leaders can stand up to an 800 pound guerilla that has a personal agenda. At this point, peacekeeping is asking for dead soldiers. Total foolishness would also be a peacekeeping force that is not at least 400,000 or 700,000 men. How stupid would a peacekeeping force be? No peacekeeping force of sufficient size will be deployed. Even the US refuses to participate. We will learn which world leaders don't represent the interests of their own countries; will 'sign on' to a fool's errand; can be manipulated to what only America wants.

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Originally Posted by wolf

You clearly never met my friend's grandmother ... she was one of the old fashioned, "I'll just sit here alone in the dark" type ...

I'm not saying that they want to die, or have the country turned into glass ... but if every last man, woman, and child is wiped off the map, they'll be 6 million more Jews from around the world ready to move in and start over.

Interesting thought, but it's hard to repopulate a radioactive wasteland.

If you're in an apocalyptic state of mind, here's something to think over, a list of Israeli airbases.

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Meggido
Designated Shachar 7 by the IDF/AF. ICAO code: LLMG. Location coordinates: N32 35.0 E035 14.0, elevation 200 ft (61 m). One runway 09/27 degrees of 7710 ft (2350 m) length. Opened in 1942. Served as an auxiliary field to Ramat David. Currently home to a gliding club, a detachment from Unit 505 and some agricultural aircraft used in the Izre-el valley. Light aircraft/helicopter wartime foward operating base. During the Six Day War, a Tu-16 was shot down by a local AA battery and crashed directly on the field. The defecting Syrian MiG-23 landed here.

For anyone who knows their bible, Armageddon is derived from Meggido.

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The word Armageddon is thought to be derived from the Hebrew words Har Megido (הר מגידו), meaning "Mountain of Megiddo". The site referred to is a valley plain called Megiddo, the location of many decisive battles in ancient times, including the Battle of Megiddo. There is no literal "mountain of Megiddo" anywhere in the Promised Land, although there is an archaeological mound nearby, representing the ruins of at least 20 cities that flourished between 5,000 years ago and 650 BC. Some would argue that the word Armageddon is an early example of a mondegreen.
The only mention of the word Armageddon in the Bible appears in Revelation 16:16: "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon" (KJV).[1]

If it had more than one runway, I'd say that's a great place to store nuclear weapons.:right:

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Hezbollah is basically the only force in Lebanon defending Lebanon from Israeli attacks. You may not believe it. But your isolated perspective does not matter. Only matters is what those locals believe.

They believed that H was an effective defensive force last month, but surely they do not believe it now.

mmmmm..... I see the IDF have widened their horizons....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/5215366.stm

Do you really think that an organization that launches aggressive attacks such as the recent rocket bombings exists to protect Lebanon from 'Israeli attacks'??? OF COURSE ISRAEL IS GOING TO ATTACK!!! It's like hiring a bodyguard and telling him to puch random people in the face. Terrorist organization or not they are still the active trouble maker right now.

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Originally Posted by JayMcGee

mmmmm..... I see the IDF have widened their horizons....

As Jay continues to prove the McLuhan quote in the other thread.

Here's one for you to chew on, Jay. :(

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Originally Posted by richlevy

Interesting thought, but it's hard to repopulate a radioactive wasteland.

People seem to be living and thriving in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...

IIRC, the residual radiation from a nuclear bombing is not the same sort of stuff that contaminated Chernobyl. Different half-lives.

Do you think there is truth to the stories about the "Sampson Option?"

Mentioning Seymour Hersh is probably a good way to trigger another tw epic. :-)

It sounds as though some of you think that Israel is/was/will be militarily offensive toward Lebanon. Israel has given up territory voluntarily and consolidated. Are you saying that they now want to annex some of Lebanon? I can see where they want Hizb'allah away from their border, since Hizb'allah's goal is to anhilate Israel. But to attack in order to gain territory? I don't know about that....