Wow. That was something else.

I bet kidney donations go down after that.

It can't help.

So now masks are political/religious. Apparently Jesus is the only protection we need.

I was hoping folks would be sensible about the opening but now it's looking wide open.

During the Spanish Flu epidemic, people were attacked for wearing masks, for the exact same reasons.

It will happen now, too.

Also, yes, there's this public attitude that the worst is behind us. It's not accurate.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Most of the numbers are hocus pocus when dealing with Schrodinger's virus.
Without testing nobody knows if they have it, or had it, so they don't know if they now have immunity.
I've also read a couple of Doctors say they aren't sure having it gives immunity, plus they don't know if getting sick is any more beneficial than being an asymptomatic carrier.
Seems to me if you've had it and are immune, you could still be a carrier. So do unto others before they do you.
I think the masks are more to prevent you from spreading it than protecting you from catching it until you get up into the very expensive models.

Our company guidelines are to wear our masks and have any adults in the home wear them as well. I had a new client refuse this week cuz Jesus, that made me realize along with the PA red v blue mask fight that we are so divided we can't even agree to try to help one another.

I also saw an anti-mask poster get banned from a Facebook group dedicated to safely opening small local businesses. He may have been a fake account,..

One wears a mask to protect the Constitutional rights of others.

From The Economist of 20 Jun 2020:
[quote}On March 12th .... Boris Johnson ... turned serious: families are going to lose loved ones before the time." But the restrictions he announced were light: those with symptoms were told to stay at home for a week; those older than 70 instructed to avoid cruise ships. Meanwhile, continental Europe was already beginning lock down. ...

... the government should have questioned the experts more closely. But it "was getting advice that it wanted to hear"[/quote]

Somehow that was a response to pandemic that was already all over the world? He acted serious. And mocked it with no actions. Somehow he only heard what he wanted to hear? When it that called responsible? It does sound like a 30 second attention span.

Someone with a business school attitude sees current 'spread sheet' numbers. They says everything will be OK. Numbers that matter were the infections today that would affect numbers weeks from now. But this is Boris Johnson who, like Trump, only sees the numbers he wanted to see.

Death rates were shooting up exponentially in Italy in early February. Exponentially in Spain in mid-February. Exponentially in France at the end of February. No problem. By ignoring what the professionals needed, Britain could only trace five Covid-19 infections a week in mid-February. And only had a few hundred tracers in March as things exponentially got bad. Therefore Boris Johnson again had the fact he wanted. Numbers said it was not really serious.

Johnson finally admitted that school must close in 23 March after he had contracted the disease. And still he refused to require people to wear masks until Mayor Sadiq Khan of London finally made a big stink about inaction on 14 April. People on British mass transient were not required to wear masks until 4 June. Johnson still does not require masks in shops. That is a responsible leader?

British government finally start expediting testing on 14 April by letting other professionals do testing. Testing suddenly increased from 1 in 5000 people to 1 in 1000 on 1 May. But again, too little too late.

Boris Johnson wanted to protect his economy - citizens be damned. Numbers are now in. Britain's GDP has suffered the worst downturn for all European countries. Which makes sense when one was listening to professionals. Britain has a worst decline at almost 12% followed by less downturns in France, Italy, and Spain. Germany, that took actions based in science, has only suffered a 7% downturn. Other nations that made decisions from facts also suffered much less economic harm include Portugal and Norway, Countries that suffered the most Covid-19 deaths, due to inaction, are now suffering the greatest economic downturns.

Grumbling is all across the Tory party. This Boris Johnson government has gone from incompetent decision to denial. Boris Johnson is now considered equal to Theresa May's competence. Boris Johnson's handling of Covid-19 had an approval rating of 70% in early March when things were clearly starting to get bad. Finally the people have realized reality. Approval has dropped to about 35%. Making his approval rating for this crisis the worst of any European nation.

It should continue to drop now that Johnson keeps promoting his "It is over" denials. They were not wearing masks until June? They still do not require masks in shops?

Amazing how people get their power by only insulting others; not be doing what is competent.

Pennsyltucky putting up idiot numbers. Put on your fucking masks. I can see a situation where I won't be allowed to go to work in NYS because my neighbors are fucking assholes.

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-su...QoKimpNfzTqXEQ

I heard that Trump "is all for masks". He loves them, it "makes him look like The Lone Ranger."

That's just fucking perfect, cover your brow and your cheekbones, leave your eyes, mouth and nose exposed. :facepalm:

Here is the PPE he really needs.

First though...

NOT SAFE FOR WORK

I took my health survey for work today the list of states I can't have traveled to is getting longer...

We have a winner in the Presidential race (to see which coronavirus-denying head of state contracts COVID-19 first).


Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro tests positive for coronavirus

The virus is not "sneaky" or "evil" or sensate in any way. It's more like a relentless machine or a fire that continues to move in all directions at once, reproducing and consuming *people* when migrating onward. Bolsonaro is just the newest log on the fire.

Whoops.

I forgot about Boris Johnson.

Sorry.

I saw this message on the big reader board outside a coffee stand today.

I agree.

Attachment 70973

Here are a couple more timely messages :


Attachment 70974

Attachment 70975

One more


Attachment 70976

It's just the opposite. The people who want masks worn by everyone are wearing the wrong masks. If those people wear the right masks (e.g. N95); then, those who don't want to wear masks wouldn't have to. They wouldn't pose a hazard to the mask wearers who don't want to take that risk and the risk would be mutually acceptable among non-wearers. A no-brainer.

Other infection control measures that pro-mask people are supposed to be implementing routinely would negate the other ramifications of some people not wearing masks. That those who are pro-mask won't wear the right masks and are instead trying to force everyone to wear the wrong masks to take up the slack for their misfeasance is political.

I'm pro-mask and wear an N95 plus practice other standard infection control techniques; so, I couldn't care less if others are determined to not wear masks. Live and let die.

People not wearing a mask can be contaminating surfaces that transfer viri virusi virusers viruses to you and your clothing.
Now you get in your car then rip off that damn mask and breath easier.
But while you drive those little bastards are being swept off your clothing into your air supply.

People wearing a mask that isn't an N95 can be contaminating surfaces that transfer viruses to you and your clothing. Those little bastards are being swept through their mask and off of it into your air supply and you can't do anything about it. You don't seem to be too concerned about that.

Yet, even though when you get in your car and rip off that damn mask to breath easier you can put it in a plastic bag, which is what you should be doing anyway in case you're already a carrier, you whine about it.

Explain yourself lady laddy. :eyebrow:

What we do not need is my mask is better than your mask neener neener neener. :eyebrow:

You know how people carry plastic bags with which to pick up their dog's shit from other people's lawns, just remove your facemask the same way and you'll be fine.

I don't pick up dog shit, I'll just hand the mask on the shifter for next time

So sorry to hear that you don't have a glove compartment you can repurpose as a mask compartment.

I put my masks inside up on the dash of my vehicle so it gets baked by the sun. So Neener, Neener, Neener!

Trump repeatedly denied Covid-19. Did everything he could to avoid a shutdown (necessary to stop Covid-19 spreading). Obstructed even testing. Encouraged Americans to spread the virus by not wearing masks. Since he only wants to be reelected - and has a 30 second attention span.

Results of his lying arrived today in economic data. American economy has never suffered a worse economic downturn - ever. A -9.5% GDP downturn this quarter (April to June). Even after May and June saw a strong upturn. An annual rate of -32.9%. Three times larger than any other American economic downturn. A downturn that appears in most every economic sector - also unpresidented. A number that is expected to become worse in a third quarter as a second wave of this Trump virus gets worse.

Economies that do shutdown, to stop a spreading virus, suffer least economic harm. But that is too hard for someone whose attention span is only 30 seconds, is openly supported by people who only want to 'wreck shit', and whose only purpose in life is to advance himself at the expense of all others (also called a narcissistic personality disorder).

From the NY Times: [quote}The collapse was unprecedented in its speed and breathtaking in its severity. The only possible comparisons in modern American history came during the Great Depression and the demobilization after World War II, both of which occurred before the advent of modern economic statistics. ...

It was the 19th straight week that the tally exceeded one million, an unheard-of figure before the coronavirus pandemic. And it was the second weekly increase in a row after nearly four months of declines, a sign of how the rebound in cases has undercut the economy’s nascent recovery. Claims for the previous week totaled 1.42 million. ...

What’s more, fears are growing that after rebounding strongly in May and June, the economy has run out of steam, with many states reversing the reopening of businesses.[/quote]
Nations that address the problem up front when it was obvious (January, February, March) do not have such massive economic damage and job losses.

That number then was shocking and widely denied. Today, consider a problem continuing until January 2021.

Trump will do anything to promote himself. He now want to suspend November elections using the excuse that election fraud is now widespread. Lying. Calling it

Yeah, he really said/tweeted that. Of course, true to form, he's backing away from it in response to the strong negative public reaction.

This is his paralipsis in action.

"I'm not saying, I'm just saying." Having his cake and eating it too.

Fine, eat your cake, IDGAF. SPOILER :The cake is a lie. But why do you get mad when we take seriously the things you say? It's ok, we know why you get mad. In six months you will return to your own cacophonous bubble of irrelevance.

I heard they're going to get rid of the penny and the nickel and put Trump on a new three dollar bill!

Narcissistic personality disorder attached to a 30 second attention span. 40% of America worships that type person.

Catfight!

Attachment 71121

This could be dangerous. They may each be on the last of their nine lives.

It doesn't matter how good or bad she is, she's not calling the shots.

Pelosi doesn't like her because she's bi-.

double standards much?

Bi-partisan, works for Presidents of either party.

Pelosi is a public figure, not a dwellar. Apples and oranges.

"You stupid." - Eric Von Zipper awardee.

What is Birx the president of? One of your secret societies? You guys have a secret handshake? One of those cool low-contrast velcro backed patches?

whatever, troll. you're still on my ignore list. you're gonna have to raise your voice #capslock to break through again. s'ok, you can have the last word. you're boring anyhow.

Reading comprehension BigVino.

When you have arguments from data, argument from authority won't cut it.

Ok

Sounds about right. What part of the thread are you talking about?

This looks like a job for The Doctor, with assistance from Bicycle Repairman, and they may even have to recall Harry and Meghan to Royal duty. Social media news can be a formidable foe:

Many masks are augmentable. Customizable in about five minutes.

My podiatrist (yes, this is quite anecdotal and not on the internet until I put it there) showed me a technique to augment many kinds of masks: add two to four layers of new, straight off the roll, paper towel. The idea is that any droplets you exhale have to negotiate three to five layers of barrier to go anywhere, and any droplets out in the ambient have to thread through the same barriers to get at you -- and the trick does not make the mask breathe any worse, especially the blue-paper disposable surgical masks.

Being a doc, my podiatrist uses a more rigid protocol; he starts the day on about five layers of towel stapled with a couple of staples to the top edge of the mask, the towel layers of course being on the inside of the mask. A little shaping with scissors keeps the paper towel pieces neat and convenient. About every patient, or about every hour, he discards the innermost towel layer, and now his mask is nice and fresh.

Some styles of two-layer cloth masks have open sides through which paper towel might be folded widthwise and inserted from one side or the other, without recourse to stapling.

Oh, this sort of thing: "On my authority as Speaker, Donald Trump is NOT ALLOWED a win, even in medicine, even if he took a medicine prophylactically, especially since it's with apparent success." Puh-leeeze. Let's have signs of intelligent life in the House; is that somehow too much to ask? I'm tired of the bigotry there.

This is interesting. Anybody see a downside?

cite please.

Yes. If the paper towel is closest to your mouth, you can breathe in paper towel fibers. You don’t want that in your lungs. Paper towels are not lint free. However, if you have a two layer fabric mask, paper towels are excellent additional filtration material sandwiched between the two layers and I have done this myself. I tried a coffee filter first, but it was too difficult to breathe through. The cloth captures any paper towel lint/fibers.

We know wood dust from woodworking is terrible for your lungs. Paper towel fibers are also bad.

Those blue shop paper towels are a lot better.

So it could improve my pocketed mask, that's something.

I have two filthy homes on my caseload. I've been using disposable masks in those places and tossing them immediately as they smell like those places when I leave...

Well -- is it some conspiracy? -- or is it a culture, and a norm for said culture? Who needs a conspiracy when he has a culture? Are any of those candidates actually stating a reason to vote for them, and their programs? I can't hear them.

Mark Levin has made considerable public comment on the Democrats' prejudiced behavior toward Donald John Trump. It is strictly prejudiced to conduct an impeachment where it's "impeachment first, offense later" -- a miscarriage of injustice. Justice, as a rule, runs the other way, offense first, and winning an election against the Mistress of Corruption is no actionable offense. Credit for frequent competent action is refused -- the Democrats are treating Trump the way they treated niggers, what with the lynchings and other fun times -- Democrat show all the way. They *do* seem to have trouble getting Trump throttled.

Two television networks are establishing a reputation for aiding and abetting the Democrats' anti-libertarian campaign. Antilibertarian campaigning is toxic, antieconomic, and slavemongering.

You know, I didn't vote for Trump the first time. Then he started implementing all these libertarian-style policies. Here comes the second.

So you can't cite.

He heard it on Fox News. It must be true.

Sorry, but Mark Levin's oeuvre is a cite, and it's comprehensive -- as you might know, once you can be arsed to start reading Levin's works. You do need to be prepared to leave the anti-American club treehouse, though. Such preparation is not difficult.

With Levin, Ben Shapiro. Somebody else you manifestly do not know.

I keep discovering all these people with training in law, who then started writing. And law school wasn't their only credential.

"Democrats won't let you work, but they'll let you riot . . ."

Republicans destroyed jobs, terminated what was a balanced budget, and created a massive downturn between 2000 and 2008. A recession that was terminated by what Democrats (and some moderate - therefore patriot Republicans) did in 2008 through 2018. By that point, the extremist Republican president had done so much economic harm that another recession was started. Forcing the Fed to lower interest rates multiple times - by even calling an emergency Fed meeting.

So who is creating jobs and who destroys jobs by enriching the rich with tax cuts and even bigger debts? Oh. That reality contradicts what Fox News orders us to believe. So we ignore it and deny it.

No mere superstition, that: "With this hallucination I thee wed, dearest Falsehood."

In California, we are now blessed with a color coded four-tier system superseding the California county watch list. Generated by one-party Sacramento and the Democrat Governor.

We are being held back. California's economy still isn't firmly recovering. Veritable convoys of U-Hauls are seen on the highways, heading out of state, to some location not run by Democrats.

House GOP leader says he trusts Trump over CDC director on vaccine timing

Trump was recently quoted saying "You've really drunk the Kool Aid, haven't you?" in a different context, but it sure looks like there's PLENTY of Kool Aid to go around.

:facepalm:

Trump's right it will be ready this year...

it just won't be tested properly, and probably not at all.
But after the first few million people we'll know if it works and if it's safe.

Wait a minute, Dr. Moncef Slaoui heading Trumps brain trust?
That sounds like an immigrant's name, but no, Trump hates them.
Hmm, "Moroccan-born Belgian-American", I wonder if Trump knows? :rolleyes:

Testing is ongoing and has a fixed schedule based on science and rules that can't be circumvented

don't go antivax to own dear leader, blood will be on your hands

Dear Leader has already touted unproven and in fact dangerous injections so Dear Leader is not to be trusted. We'll have a vaccine when the scientist-doctors and the CDC/WHO say we have a vaccine.

then don't claim "it just won't be tested properly or not at all"

His implication was if it is ready before the end of 2020 (as Trump has claimed it will be) then by definition it won't have been properly tested, according to the rules you claim can't be circumvented (though in actuality they can, it just takes one willing and/or blackmailed pharmaceutical CEO.)

You can believe Trump is talking out of his ass and it won't be released this year, and maybe you're right, but the testing protocols you believe in dictate that a properly-tested vaccine can't be released this year.

Clodfobble, you're precisely correct. Thank you for the concise clarification.

really? conspiracy theory before the fact?

NY Times COVID vaccine tracker

40 vaccines are in human clinical trials. Nine are in Phase 3. (Three of those are Chinese companies, so we might rule them out? But they are being tested in other countries. All three Chinese vaccines are approved for limited human use.)

Three vaccines not from Chinese companies are nearly ready. They won't be widely available by the end of 2020 because manufacturing, but one or two may well be released. Pfizer figures their studies will be complete next month.