All I did was ask you to dispute the assessment of my post. Can you or can't you? Really, I am interested. Dispute what she stated, which I generally agree with. "I am all ears." (RP)

I know from experience that what ever I say, you will jump in with a charge of "failed" or "propaganda"

Why should I continue to play by your rules.

Make it a level playing field and we can discuss any issue you want.

Are you really that afraid to have a moderated discussion?

Let me know if you change your mind.

All I did was ask you to dispute the assessment of my post. Can you or can't you? Really, I am interested. Dispute what she stated, which I generally agree with. "I am all ears." (RP)

I'd be happy to moderate. I have a decent familiarity with Robert's Rules, spent time in Toastmasters, and took PHI 201: Logic from an excellent prof.

Another good assessment... About the Tea Party and reporting of their actions


Continues...


http://www.commentarymagazine.com/vi...times-i--15416

I propose a live "real time" discussion.....in the chat room.... just point me in the right direction.

No links to someone else's opinion, no time for google searches between posts....just responding to questions in our own words based on our knowledge of the issues.

We can decide on topics, rules, etc...but leave the specific questions to UT, with no advance notice.

What could be more fair?

Just need the other side represented!

No one gives a shit. Let's just meet in person. Bring your weapon of choice. :)

It's not a threat. It's a SMILIE.


Hahahhahaaaa...a moderated discussion...great suggestion UT but it seems only one of them is willing.

I am disappointed but not surprised.

Particularly in light of:

So much for having the courage of one's conviction! I only see a willingness to play by his rules where he is prosecutor, judge and jury of any opinion that challenges his.

Its easy have convictions when you set the rules....a little tougher when you are asked to defend your convictions on a level playing field.



Or willing to accept a fair and objective solution with an impartial moderator calling out any propaganda on either side.

Perhaps if I suggest that each side add another player (so as not to put too much pressure on Merc alone) ....a tag team match. I want TW, hell, he has been accused of poor communication skills so that should be fair. :)

The other side's second person can be UG...kinda level the playing field. ;)

Can't be me, I couldn't debate my way out of a paper bag.

The battle of the Cellar stars!

The "Mouth of the South" and the "Manly Freedom Fighter" vs the sub-adult "Lily Liberal Demoncrats"

I'm gonna be on Dancing With the Cellar Stars!

Unfortunately, there will be no post-discussion dancing in the Cellar due to someone in the proposed main event having cold feet. ;)

Waaaaaaaaaaaaa..... poor baby.

Taxpayers foot State Department's stiff liquor bill


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...f-liquor-bill/

Alcohol consumed in moderate quantities is good for the urinary tract system. It's a health and safety issue. :)

Because the other one is a retarded dittohead.

The Washington Times is a repubican talking point rag. Come up with a legitimate source, merk

For those of you who love the CBO...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-to-90-of-gdp/

Oh, you showed him, using the Times as a source right after he complained about it!

:)

A Victory for Obama's Agenda of Spreading Dependency
By George Will


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...cy_104865.html

Merc - Perhaps you could start your own thread - "Merc's Madness" - and put all the links there.

What? you don't want me to post the ones you send me!:D

There is a GOD!


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...bomb-rais.html

I filled out my RNC Census form last night. It is an odd little document. They could actually get some valuable information out of it but much of it is push poll. I hadn't realized how totally the GOP had lost my trust when it comes to the issues conservatives are supposed to understand.

Wow really, Griff? What was that? I'd love to see a copy.
<off to look online>

found it. Here

That's the thing. Section 2 #3 is the one that clued me in to my level of distrust. A decade ago I'd have given the Republicans 6 or 8 of those issues. Yesterday, I gave them zero. The Dems got a few and I used no opinion as my catch all.

Its so just ridiculous. you cannot answer some of the questions, based upon the wording and/or options given, without agreeing or giving more ammunition to the party and their talking points.
See section III question 4, 5, 10, 13, 16 just as a start.

The bigger issue is that after the RNC did this earlier in the year, Congress unanimously passed (and Obama signed) a law to prohibit such mailings....and the fact that it was not just a push poll, but a fund raising appeal as well.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-4621

And, the RNC did it again with this more recent mailing.

The mailing is currently under investigation by the US Postal Service. The likely outcome, the RNC might be fined.....probably less than it raised from the mailing.

This Corries song "Liberty" would play pretty well at TEA Parties even though all of its references are Scottish.

Next year's budget is sinking in deep red ink
Link
The fiscal irresponsibility of this is just astounding. Didn't they just pace a law recently that there would be no additional spending that would increase the deficit? How the heck is that gonna happen if they don't create a budget first?
Oi'!

Please tell me how not passing a budget resolution is fiscally irresponsible....considering it is only a non-biding resolution...is not sent to the president...and not signed into law.

Then what is the point?

The point is the budget resolution has been ignored numerous times in recent years (as pointed out in your link) and ultimately has no impact on the budget.

All that matters are the appropriation bills.

So there is no point to doing this at all and its just a total waste of how many man hours and taxpayers money on this worthless nothing. Great - I feel so much better now.

I would encourage you to read up on the budget process before making sweeping statements about the lack of a budget resolution being fiscally irresponsible. :)

The Stimulus Package failed. This will be no different.

Great video Jinx.

Ron Paul's view of monetary policy and the role of the Fed is way outside the mainstream and dismissed by most economists as highly likely to lead to another great depression.

The ulra-libertarians who subscribe to the 19th century Austrian School (this is where UG would jump in) love iit but really cant defend it in today's global economy.

Where I do agree with Paul is that there needs to be greater oversight of the Fed (ie a less independent Fed).

The House version of the financial regulatory reform bill passed earlier this year (which includes many of Paul's recommendations) addresses this issue better than the Senate version now being deliberated.

Just one non-economist's opinion.

The reliance upon a pure fiat currency is one of the signs of the fall of a nation.

Quit being such a spoil sport. Fiat currency makes it easier for us to vote ourselves money from the public treasury.

Back to the gold standard?

More good thinking about our current climate from David Brooks. As long as we punish hard work in this country our culture will continue its decline.


In a few years’ time, Ben is going to be disappointed again. He’s going to find that the outsiders he sent to Washington just screamed at each other at ever higher decibels. He’s going to find that he and voters like him unwittingly created a political culture in which compromise is impermissible, in which institutions are decimated by lone-wolf narcissists who have no interest in or talent for crafting legislation. Nothing will get done.

That's exactly what some people want..... until they need something to get done.:right:

I disagree with Brook's basic premise and its not clear at all how the current monetary policy has punished hard work. Ron Paul's "free trade" solution is certainly not the answer and would likely result in even more jobs going overseaS.

A recent study found more entrepreneurs starting new businesses in 2009 than at any other time in the past 14 years....in part, because, even with tight lending, money is cheap right now as a result of the current Fed policy.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/9...ew-businesses-

Add to that the recent (and largest) middle class and small business tax cuts and tax credits.... but these dont come without a cost to the deficit as well.

I do agree with Brooks on one point. Its easy to be on the outside criticizing and waving their signs, like the Tea Party crowd.

Its much harder to offer constructive and realistic solutions.

The US debt has to be addressed, but there are no simple solutions. Certainly not the notion of cutting spending AND cutting taxes, given that the largest and fastest growing component of the debt is entitlement programs (Social Security, Medicare....)

The solution will require compromise and tough decisions including cutting spending AND raising taxes.

added:
I am still perplexed at how silent the Tea Party crowd have been on the need for financial regulatory reform....another indication that they, at least the token leaders (Palin and now Rand Paul and to a lesser extent, Gingrich), are not interested in consensus building as much as they are in imposing their own narrow ideology.

To some degree, IMO, the Cellar is a microcosm of the country. Alot of complaining by those who dont like the current policy direction, but very little in the way of alternative constructive solutions.

I don't think Brooks would ever endorse a "hard" currency as it can be too inflexible, suppressing economic expansion. That said, as long as our currency is losing value saving is punished. To go along with what you said we will have to raise taxes and cut services to rebuild the integrity of the dollar. We will have to cut more services than Democrats want and raise more taxes than Republicans want. Both parties live in a fantasy world created by ideology, we only have to read Krugman today to witness the self-delusion. I believe it may be possible to ease the pain in an economic contraction through government spending, but you'll never hear the left calling for cuts during an economic boom, much as we never hear Republicans complain about debt created by war-making.

Getting centrists elected is the tough part since they can't speak to blind ideology. They have no core group to hold in place while they reach out to other voters.

Rand Paul is going to get creamed defending BP the way he is. Sometimes corporations really are the bad guys.

Growing small business should be the focus of centrists. Let's not create a regulatory morass that suppresses start-ups, but we damn well better regulate and hold big business accountable for environmental and economic destruction.

I think you need to look back at the last century to see who was in charge when all the major deficit making wars were started. It wasn't Republicans. Republicans did get us out of most of them.

True enough, but you are thinking of the old GOP which is quite dead. It is time to open our eyes to what is.

I think you'll find new businesses tend to launch more as unemployment climbs.

I agree with you with the need for, and the difficulty in electing, centrists or those willing to compromise and build consensus.

I still dont see anyway out of the necessity to have spent significantly in the last year to keep the economy from tanking completely. No one wanted the bank bailouts, but many understood the necessity....and no one, but the free traders thought that the economy would recovery on its own w/o some type of stimulus....spending or tax cuts.

When the economy is stabilized and growing again, I am all for responsible cuts in discretionary spending....including defense.

But the biggest bugaboo is Medicare. There is a relatively easy fix for Social Security...raise the base of income subject to the payroll tax and the system is financially sound for another 50 years...through the baby boomers.

The Medicare fix is not so easy, but tax increases will certainly need to be part of the solution.

I recall Rumsfeld telling Congress that the Iraq war would cost no more than $50 billion and Iraq would pay for its reconstruction with oil revenue.

The cost of the war to-date? About $1 trillion and counting....all of it off-budget and not offset by spending cuts. The long-term costs are likely to exceed $2 trillion.

To depose a tyrant who posed no direct threat to the US and had no relationship with those who attacked us on 9/11.

I agree..but the point is, it can be further stimulated by monetary policy, which has been the focus of the Fed short=term policy.

And fiscal policy as well. I would suggest the small business tax incentives in the stimulus bill helped to some degree and so did the bank bailouts.

Without all of the above, credit certainly would have been much tighter than it is at present.

Are you saying that loose monetary policy, which was a major driver in our near collapse, is going to save us now?

I would disagree with you that the monetary policy of the last decade (or two) was a "major driver" in the near collapse.

I would attribute more to the lack of regulation, specifically, the virtual repeal of Glass-Steagall (and the resulting housing bubble) and to a lesser extent, the grossly over-priced dot.com bubble.

added:
I am not a fan of Milton Friedman, the Hoover/Cato crowd and free market, trickle down economics, but I agree with them on this:
And, post-Greenspan, I think Bernanke's short-term policy was necessary and correct, given the state of the economy....but should now begin to be tightened as the economy recovers, as he suggested earlier this year.

I agree, it will not. More smoke and mirrors by the Demoncratically controlled Congressional Whores, as it was with the Healthcare Reform and Stimulus Millions of Shovel Ready Jobs Package. A big fat FAIL as we are still at a near 10% unemployment rate. Elections are just around the corner folks. Vote the scumbags out.