Indeed. Mob rule does not indicate that the golden rule is in effect.

Began a lengthy response, but: what's the point? Here, instead, is my close...
 

Putting things on a scale (safety at one end, freedom at the other), most folks look for a sweet spot between the two.

It's a mistake of course cuz the sweet spot gets shifted slowly and surely over to 'safety' by those who look to profit (in one way or another).

These profiteers don't have to work very hard cuz most folks, it seems, are easily hoodwinked into trading off autonomy in an effort to preserve autonomy.

Me: I skew heavily toward 'freedom'.

Hyper-aware of even the smallest encroachment, folks like me rage and stew.

We see the bars of the cage and hate them and we hate 'you' cuz you defend the cage.

I believe that cage ultimately will open to the chute leading to the abattoir.

I believe 'you' will walk calmly, mebbe even happily, to the killing floor cuz you simply don't know any better.

As you like.

What? You don't want to trade your privacy for the illusion of security? ;)

Arnold Kling, in his book "The Three Languages of Politics", published in full at this Cato link, says that, basically:

Liberals see the world as a battle between victims and oppressors.

Conservatives see the world as a battle between civilization and barbarism.

Libertarians see the world as a battle between freedom and coercion.

I have not read the full book as of yet.

Everybody has their different frameworks. All three of these are important. The tendency is to pick one and see everything else along that viewpoint. My guess now is that all of human governance doesn't actually solve for just one variable. And that it's human nature itself that won't permit it.

~ but that's just a guess, carry on ~

My view is red hot,
Your view ain't diddly squat.
:lol:

This rings true.

Random thoughts; Does this explain why Republicans, who appeared to liberals to get virtually everything they wanted out of Obama, are still pissed off? That alliance between conservatives and libertarians is untenable especially if both thoughts are in the same head. The disappearance of good government types might be explained.

Virtually everything they wanted, no. During Obama, cultural conservatives finally lost the previous culture war; and then, cultural liberals dunked on them, and then did a little superior dance and victory lap. That's why they are still angry and why they like it when Trump makes the liberals apoplectic

From the liberals perspective, Obama pushed through a center-right (progressive Republican?) healthcare program for his sole victory. He then saw same continuously attacked after losing Congress. He stabilized a collapsing economic system pleasing almost no-one. The culture war dunk was style not substance. Obama said nice things about previously shunned people but in the end lost the Supreme Court for a generation. As soon as he left, the Ryan/Trump tax victory made sure we'd never pay down his and W's bills creating a benefits cutting imperative threatening Social Security etc.. So style wise yeah the GOP had to look at a black woman's shoulders for eight years but our judicial branch remains firmly in the hands of right wing culture warriors. The only reason the "Deep State" also known as the Executive Branch isn't hammering through major right wing regulatory changes is that Trump didn't actually have sensible ideas and was too stupid to put a transition team in place two years ago. The professionals are still doing their jobs following Obama era directives absent actual leadership.

"I have not read the full book as of yet."
 

I did. Kling muddies the water.

His 'three axes' model folds neatly into this...

communitarian--------------------libertarian

'progressives' & 'conservatives' both sit on the communitarian end of the scale. championing victims and bringing down oppressors, and, preserving civilization from barbarians, amount to the same thing (straightjackets all 'round!).

"I have not read the full book as of yet." expanded post
 

I did. Kling muddies the water.

His 'three axes' model folds neatly into this...

communitarian--------------------libertarian

'progressives' & 'conservatives' both sit on the communitarian end of the scale. Championing victims and bringing down oppressors, and, preserving civilization from barbarians, amount to the same thing (*straightjackets all 'round!).

Simply: you progressives want them oppressive conservatives hobbled, and the conservatives want you barbaric progressives hobbled and folks like me want all of you to just leave us be. Folks like me don't wanna oppress you or your counterparts and 'we' don't wanna break whatever it is your counterparts (or you) think of as civilization. Folks like me try real hard to mind their own business and keep their hands to themselves. Least you folks could do is leave us alone as you go about your dumb lil 'culture wars'.

But: you won't.


凸(-_-)凸








*in other words: all them regs and laws most of you folks think are so keen

You're a splinter group, and splinters always keep festering until that part of the whole becomes incapacitated, unable to work in coordination with the rest of the whole. Then the paralisis spreads until the whole is unable to defend itself from the creeping crud which will devour everything including splinters.

If that's your choice, then that's your privilege, but that's no reason to be rude in the mean time. Kumbaya, baby, kumbaya. ;)

"You're a splinter group, and splinters always keep festering until that part of the whole becomes incapacitated, unable to work in coordination with the rest of the whole. Then the paralisis spreads until the whole is unable to defend itself from the creeping crud which will devour everything including splinters."

Nuthin' would give me more satisfaction than bein' the cancer in your midst.

#

"If that's your choice, then that's your privilege,"

It is.

#

"but that's no reason to be rude in the mean time."

Fuck you, bruce. You dismiss me and mock me pretty much every time I post.

tw, jackass that he is, is at least honest about his distaste. He never gets up to all your affable passive-aggressive, neutered garbage.

Go peddle that 'rudeness' twaddle to somebody elde, eunuch.

You're wrong, I certainly disagree with you and will argue my position at every opportunity, but never dismiss you. I'm fascinated because you're obviously intelligent and willing to doing the research to strengthen your position. You're the first person I've encountered who feels the way you do, who was willing to explain exactly what they believe and why.

I don't expect to change your mind, nor do I think you expect to change mine.
It's the others who read our exchanges, who might be swayed a little one way or the other.

"It's the others who read our exchanges, who might be swayed a little one way or the other."

In this place: most are on your side of things, you don't have convince any one of anything.

And me: I never try to convince. I just remind you folks from time to time that folks like me are around (I'm the cough the laudanum won't supress).


And: I'm sorry I called you eunuch (however, the 'fuck you' stands :angry: )

Well thank you, that's more action than I was getting.
Yes, most of the people who post here lean left, and some right, but what about the millions of lurkers watching from the shadows, silently judging us. :unsure: