My varying mileage:

I have a peter-meter, sure.

What pegs it (pun, what pun?) is a happy, excited turned on woman. If that woman is happy with what she's got, HER OPINION of herself, when that shows, that's attractive. A different woman with the same physical characteristics that is unhappy with herself, not attractive. In a real way, the woman's opinion is a major deciding factor in forming my opinion of what's hot.


To reduce us men to thinking only with our dicks is not accurate. It may well be your experience, but I absolutely promise you, there are many of us out here who think about our partner's opinions.

V, I wasn't suggesting a man is completely led by his penis.

I was trying to counter Trac's statement that if a woman told a man that another woman was attractive, he would agree.
That is not my experience.

Men themselves decide if they find a woman attractive.
Mentally, emotionally, physically, whatever.

The correct reply is "Attractive? well ... only so far as she resembles you, darling!"

OK, so it IS men who make women feel crappy enough about themselves to want to be too thin? Or not thin enough? Or wear too much make up? Or not enough? Or be too short? Or too tall? :rolleyes:

"She's OK for a car stereo, but I wouldn't want her in my home." :lol:

My answer to this question was first given to me by a beautiful woman, Elanor Roosevelt. She truthfully reveals who is responsible for making someone feel bad when she said:

It is up to me to choose to give that consent or to withhold it. If a man does something and I feel crappy about it, it's because I have chosen to give his actions or words weight (no pun intended). If a woman says something and my daughter feels bad about it, it is because my daughter has chosen to give that person credibility.

I have credibility with my daughter. I may say something that hurts her (may? I have, sometimes on purpose sometimes by accident, sometimes for good sometimes for ill). But the crappy feeling she has is her feeling. Lord knows, I have striven to inculcate in her a realistic sense of her own worth, one that can withstand such unfortunate experiences. She has, to be sure, her own weaknesses, as do I, and all of you. And sometimes when my weakness lines up with someone's action, intentionally or otherwise, I can feel the impact and sometimes it is very painful. But that's mine, not theirs. They can't make me feel crappy about myself without my consent.

I've heard it said "don't let anyone rent space in your head" but for me that's a lot easier to say than do.

TWeleanor?

i think your missing a significent element here: we're not neccesrily talking about people calling a woman ugly or bad looking, we're talking about women feeling bad about how they look because other women - with physical characteristics they don't have - get glorified and considered more attractive then they are.

and if there is anyone who doesn't want to be considered attractive, man or woman, then they are being naive. practically all your face to face interactions within human society are going to be influenced by how attractive other people will think you are; it will be easier for you to get help, you are more likely to get promoted, in a good economy you are more likely to get a better paying job and in a bad economy you are more likely to get a job in general, you will have more social networking oppertunities, you will get more social attention, you will have a better selection of mates and an easier time getting them.

who wouldn't want that? no matter what it is you want in life, these will make it easier. even the financial independence required for complete life long solitude is easier to acomplish with this.

now i doubt that when most people want to feel more attractive they think about all those things. for the most part it's just instinctive reactions to social dynamics, such as jelousy or attention seeking. but overcoming those instincts doesn't overcome their practical basis.

and remember: in most aspects, you and me have no freaking clue as to what would make us look hotter - statistically even to many muscles are shunned away by women so male body builders get it wrong too - we might have a general idea about what flaws detract people, but physical ideals range from macho and hairy to boyish & downright feminine, and the traits unattractive to one woman will be cute and charming for the next.

unlike you and me, your daughter will be given a very clear image of what is attractive. regardless if that means she'll feel too skinny or too heavy (that changes from period to period), she will have to deal with this crap.