*chuckles* I respect the idea that human life trumps all: but that's not what you just said. You said you wouldn't pay $1000 to keep a $700 pet alive. That's got bugger all to do with valuing humans more highly than animals. That's to do with valuing animals no more than circuitry.

The operative word is value. When we value something we place a value on it. When I invest in a pet, I assign a value to it just as my car or computer have a value assigned to them. In my case, the value I assign to the pet is the price I paid for it.

Perhaps in your case you assign more value based on emotions or feelings, but I do not.

To me, when I invest in something and the upkeep of that investment exceeds the cost of the actual investment, I don't keep it. This holds true regardless of whether it's a pet, a car, a computer, or a television.

Oh, I understand that radar. I just don't see how that equates to 'human life trumps all in my book.' Human life trumps all in my book also, but that doesn;t mean i won't move heaven and earth to keep my pet healthy and happy.

I cuold see how those two things are related if you were intending to spend the money on helping starving children; in that case it's a choice: do you spend money on humans or on animals. But that's not the issue is it?

How you relate to animals is how you relate to animals. But by somehow equating that with the value you assign to human life you are falsely ennobling your perspective. One can value human life and also value animal life. The two are not necessarily in competition with each other.

I don't really see the purchase of a pet as an 'investment' in the same way as the purchase of a car or computer is an investment. Computers and cars are not alive. My dog very much is alive. A computer does not rely on me for its survival; it is an inanimate object, without emotions or the capacity for pain, distress, or joy.

I can understand someone having a more pragmatic view of animals. Hell, i eat meat and am not camping down at the local abbattoir with protest signs. Nor am I attempting to release caged monkeys from the nearest research lab...

But the idea that a dog exists at the same logical level as a car, or television, or computer for you is disturbing (to me). I am not suggesting they should exist at the same logical level as people...but the world is not made up solely of 'things' and 'people'. There are levels in between.

If human life trumps all, Radar, what are you doing owning a computer, or a car, or a television in the first place? You chose to spend that money on these objects, rather than a starving child?

A computer helps me with my work and keeps my mind active and entertained and also helps me organize things and pay bills. A car gets both my wife and I to and from work and our daughter to and from the babysitter so we can earn money. A television keeps us entertained while not at work. I don't have a dog, but I do help needy people.

I'm having a similar issue with my cat. I've discussed her here before, this is my mom's cat, who is 19, and pretty much a scroungy mess. She's still affectionate and loves to eat, but she pisses all over the house. Has gone from peeing on the floor of the bathroom to the dining room and now that we've put hardwood in the dining room that's not fun anymore, so she is peeing in my son's room and now goes all the way down to the lower-level to pee there, too. And if we leave anything on the floor, like a towel or sweater, she will pee on it.

Vet says we can pay a few hundred bucks and treat whatever thyroid problem vet suspects, but who knows if that will stop her behavior? OTOH, I feel an obligation to this cat because she's my mom's, and we inherited all kinds of good stuff from mom when she died, seems cold to not take the bad with the good.

On the 3rd hand (ha) that was 2 years ago and I think by living in a house that smells like cat piss for two years we have fulfilled our obligation.

Kitty is quarantined in the bathroom now and may be paying a very special visit to the vet in the next couple days. :(

19 is very old for a cat. Several hundred dollars is a lot to spend for something that 'might' help. If she's having to be quarantined in the bathroom, then her quality of life is starting to suffer.

Tough decision Juni, but it strikes me you mayhave done your best by her and a quiet drift into sleep may not be the worst path for her to take at this point.

Juniper, we had a similar problem with a cat. We solved it by confining the cat to a large dog crate with her litter box (which she would use, she just couldn't remember where it was). We moved the crate from place to place to keep the cat entertained and in the sun (when appropriate). Cost of crate: less than $100.

A good thing, too. I hope for any dog's sake you NEVER own a dog. :headshake

I've had many dogs and they loved me and I loved them. I treated them well, and they were lucky to have an owner as kind as I am.

. . . till they took ill or needed care.

I got 'em shots, flea & tick stuff, a tennis ball, etc. and when they got old and sick, I didn't make them suffer, except for Bernard. I kept him around until he was 16 years old. I had him from 12 to 28 years old. That's pretty damned old for any dog.

Nonsense, did you keep mom's half full trash can? There's not a reason in the world for putting up with a house that's drenched in cat piss... not one. If you want to, and can afford, to take a chance on treatment by all means go for it. But if you can't fix the cat's behavior, do her a favor... put her down.

Would Mom have thought poor kitty was unhappy by now? Would Mom herself have made the decision to put the cat out of her misery? Would you have counseled Mom to make that choice, if kitty were still in her house?

You certainly have no obligation to go way further than Mom would have gone.


Unless Mom was Radar.

Unless you are keeping kitty to somehow remain closer to your mom. Thats a whole different situation. Still the overriding issue at this point is the condition of the cat. Is she is pain, is her condition ever going to improve, is it treatable? IF not, then the answer seems clear.