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-   -   Immigration Enforcement Un-American? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19841)

TGRR 03-22-2009 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 548462)
Dude give it up. Are you Radar's twin brother? You are nothing more than another person who thinks they are an expert at something you have convinced yourself you are right about. The world is filled with people like you. Get in line and get a helmet. I don't care what you believe about it. Now get back to that crystal ball and tell me more about myself. :D

And do some shots or something. Relax.
No, seriously, tell me where the constitution is declared to be a contract between the federal government and the states?

I am a totally captive audience, here.

:lol:

TheMercenary 03-22-2009 08:48 PM
Hannity, Rush, and Boortz told me so at the latest hippie neocon convention where we were all doing some Koolaid-guzzling with sheep. It must be twew..

They read it in their crystal balls. Serious.

monster 03-22-2009 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 548441)
The Constitution is a contract between the Federal government and the states. Nothing more.

Non-citizens have the right to be deported to their country of origin.

"We the People of the United States.." not we the people of England, or we the people of Brazil.

Nice try.
I have rights beyond deportation.

It doesn't say "We the Legal Citizens of the United States"

nice try.

TheMercenary 03-22-2009 08:50 PM
I do believe that anyone here under legal immigration status has legal rights which are protected under the Constitution. The problem is with illegal immigrants and those arrested under other circumstances outside the borders of the US. The subject is obviously a debateable one or we wouldn't have many of the problems we have in detaining non-citizens.

TGRR 03-22-2009 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster (Post 548471)
I have rights beyond deportation.

It doesn't say "We the Legal Citizens of the United States"

nice try.
Either he can't tell the difference between "the people" and "no person/any person", or he doesn't consider brown folks to be "persons".

TGRR 03-22-2009 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 548472)
I do believe that anyone here under legal immigration status has legal rights which are protected under the Constitution. The problem is with illegal immigrants and those arrested under other circumstances outside the borders of the US. The subject is obviously a debateable one or we wouldn't have many of the problems we have in detaining non-citizens.
The problem we have is that this administration and the one before it don't care much about the constitution.

TheMercenary 03-22-2009 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGRR (Post 548473)
Either he can't tell the difference between "the people" and "no person/any person", or he doesn't consider brown folks to be "persons".
There you go hating on people of color. Man you need to seek help for that.

Actually his weak attempts to equate immigration control to some sort of racist ideals is often used by supporters of open borders in an attempt to demonize those who disagree with them. Eh, whateva...

TGRR 03-22-2009 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 548475)
There you go hating on people of color.
Can you even read? No, seriously.

monster 03-22-2009 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 547384)
Bullshit. Go through the legal process or get out. I don't care why you came illegally, only that you did come illegally. The cop doesn't care too much about my reason for running 80 in a 35 speed zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 547393)
Legal process isn't always an option for people who are fleeing persecution. Added to that some may have a very understandable fear (terror) of authority, leading them to try slipping under the radar.


[eta] and if you had a pregnant wife in the back going into labour, he may not be a bastard about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookout123 (Post 547403)
I appreciate your concern Dana. I also would like to give personal, individual consideration to each person, but that isn't how laws work. I do believe in black and white enforcement even if it is sometimes harsh on some individuals. I can think of nothing more fair in life than applying the exact same rules to every single person.
I'm guessing you're not of Jewish descent then? because I'm pretty sure they didn't have much time or opportunity to fill in the correct paperwork for their destinations before they fled from the Nazis.

lookout123 03-23-2009 06:56 PM
Hey look, here comes Godwin.

DanaC 03-23-2009 06:58 PM
Umm...I don't think we can call out the Godwin card on this one. The discussion had ranged onto people seeking asylum and the holocaust is entirely appropriate to that discussion.

ZenGum 03-23-2009 08:32 PM
Calling Quirk's exception, eh Dana?

sugarpop 03-23-2009 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 547171)
The reason those people can't get the care they get, is not because illegal immigrants have taken the care they should have had. It doesn't have to be either or. My God, the damage that has been done to your economy and to your families by a handful of glorified robber barons and yet billions can be found to patch up the wounds they left. You could let everybody in who wanted to come in and you'd probably do less damage to your economy and ramp up the national debt considerably less than the bankers have.

Illegal immigrants are an easy target for anger. But as individuals what they've done is insignificant.
I agree about the robber barons. Trust me, I have been raging about that issue for years. However, the argument that illegal immigrants cost taxpayers many billions of dollars every year is valid, and the fact that they send billions to Mexico every year makes it an even bigger slap in the face. The laws need to be enforced. As individuals the damage may not be all that significant, but as a whole, it is enormous.

http://geeks.pirillo.com/forum/topic...Comment1472397
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html
https://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejo...9741669_2.html

monster 03-23-2009 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 548818)
Umm...I don't think we can call out the Godwin card on this one. The discussion had ranged onto people seeking asylum and the holocaust is entirely appropriate to that discussion.
I tried long and hard to avoid the possibility of invoking Godwin, but beest assured me that it really was the correct term in this context. And he's as sound as they come. Anyone who has ever been offended by anything he posted should just jump off a cliff right now.

Bullitt 03-23-2009 10:35 PM
I'm not so sure it's all that appropriate of a comparison given the drastically different circumstances under which the Jews and others were fleeing, as opposed to the current US/Mexico situation. Things may be bad in Mexico right now, but the events of and leading up to the Holocaust were on a totally different level. Yeah on a superficial basis it works, people fleeing a bad situation where innocents are being killed, but the greater details of both show that's where the similarities really end. And to me that kind of cheapens the attempted comparison.


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