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-   Politics (http://cellar.org/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Obama's Dog (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=19812)

Nirvana 03-17-2009 02:25 PM
I bred the number one Chihuahua being shown in this country in 2000. She won Best In Show at an all breed event, 1 of only 5 long coats females in our breed to have ever won BIS and she won the breed at Westminster. I can ask what I want for puppies I just do not happen to breed very many, I place less than 3 puppies a year.. I would still only ask $450-$850 for pets.

The term "pet" means to a hobby breeder a dog that cannot be shown and should not be bred because it has a minor flaw such as dentition problem, shoulder placement, nose color etc.

From a good show breeder you can expect to pay $2500 for a show breeding dog. [ my breed]They will expect you to show them and just laying out the money will not guarantee you the dog they have a screening process and some will want to co own until the dog is a Champion..

Nirvana 03-17-2009 02:26 PM
Ellen Degeneres and Oprah got bad deals when they bought dogs from rescue.

Undertoad 03-17-2009 02:32 PM
Wow congrats Nirvana, that was a remarkable achievement by you!

A lot of people say they've spent time with a world-class bitch but you really have!

Nirvana 03-17-2009 02:47 PM
Well thanks UT! I see a world class Bitch every time I look in the mirror ;)

classicman 03-17-2009 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana (Post 546122)
Ellen Degeneres and Oprah got bad deals when they bought dogs from rescue.
IMO - The dogs got a bad deal too.

Congrats on the championship.

Nirvana 03-17-2009 06:39 PM
Thanks CM :) I am not a bragging type of person I only wanted to qualify my comments.

I dunno if the dogs got a bad deal, they had wealthy owners willing to give them everything, its not their fault the one died nor is their fault that the other dog was not a good match for the owner.
Just because someone calls themselves a dog rescue(r) doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

Shawnee123 03-17-2009 07:24 PM
Nirvana, I read that really small dogs are known to have complications while giving birth. There are numerous things that can go wrong, and often end in giving the mom a c-section. Do you think c-sections are less risky to a dog's health than the spay procedure?

Nirvana 03-17-2009 08:35 PM
Since I have assisted in more than 50 [guess]of both surgeries I would say they have the same risks, the biggest being lack of skill on the part of the surgeon. The worst complication I have ever had was from a spay. The bitch almost died. I have never had a complication in a c section that ended in the death of the mother. [knock on wood] I have a very skilled veterinarian and my dogs are in their peak of health when they are bred.

sugarpop 03-18-2009 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana (Post 545868)
There are some great dogs at shelters but lets not blame dog breeders for the dogs that are thrown away by others whether on purpose or thru a bad turn in life...
I didn't mean to imply breeders were responsible for irresponsible pet owners. I did mean to imply that not all breeders are good, and that there are too many animals being put down because of overbreeding, whether by breeders, or by people not spaying/neutering their animals and keeping them fenced in, or by people dumping animals they don't want. It just makes me very sad. If I had a lot of land and money, I would try to give some of them a place to live.

sugarpop 03-18-2009 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana (Post 545909)
This is a link to pending legislation in the state of Maine where if you have 1 [ yes 1] intact female adult dog you are considered a breeding kennel. Of course they make exclusions for show kennels, hunting dogs etc except that any extra offspring cannot be sold so that would make someone worse than a pet miller they would be collectors because to breed you would have to keep everything you produce.:rolleyes:

2. License fees. The fee for a breeding kennel license is calculated by multiplying the number of adult female dogs and cats at the breeding kennel capable of breeding by $500.

I have a two lb Chihuahua technically under this law I would have to pay $150 for her because technically she is capable of producing offspring and because having one breedable female I am considered a kennel so I would then have to pay $500 but no one in their right mind would breed a 2 lb dog and most veterinarians would not perform surgery on a dog that small when it is not an emergency. These are crazy laws and the HSUS is rushing these things to every state in the union that will listen to their lobbyists.

This is the goal of PETA and the HSUS that no one can breed or own an animal and that the government will take away your rights to have pets of any kind..

http://janus.state.me.us/legis/LawMa...=1&SessionID=8
If you have an animal and you aren't planning on breeding it, why wouldn't you spay/neuter it?

sugarpop 03-18-2009 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana (Post 545919)
It has already passed in Los Angeles, some of these animal bills were introduced in various states within a 3 week time frame.

http://www.hsus.org/legislation_laws/

Read their propaganda for yourself.
I support every single thing listed on that link. In California, the people get to vote on issues like this. I know, I lived there for 10 years, and I voted on the horse meat issue. California is a very pet-oriented state, and the people there will probably vote to protect animals.

In addition, the link you provided to the legislation, it seemed pretty reasonable to me.

ZenGum 03-18-2009 12:15 AM
So, ahh, did Obama get a dog yet?

sugarpop 03-18-2009 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirvana (Post 546024)
Well Redux what part of that new proposed legislation do you feel is fair to a hobby breeder? The part where the sale of 5 dogs makes them a pet dealer? Large breed dogs frequently have double digit litters so effectively if some hobby breeders have one litter they are automatically a pet dealer? Everyone will have to get their pets from pet mills in the future because they are the only ones that will be able to afford to pay to have animals. Your rights are being taken away and you are looking in another direction. That is so high on the bullshit meter its off the chart!

The whole point is the proposed legislation is BS but you would rather dwell on an aspect that I got wrong. You said you are for ending pet mills and this legislation puts all hobby breeders out of business so you will have no choice if you want a pet but to get it at commercial breeding operations. Duplicity is your friend. :eyebrow:
What the hell is a "hobby" breeder? :eyebrow:

ZenGum 03-18-2009 12:35 AM
Where do you think hobby horses come from?

DanaC 03-18-2009 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarpop (Post 546421)
If you have an animal and you aren't planning on breeding it, why wouldn't you spay/neuter it?
Because there are medical arguments against it. There are also 'moral' arguments against it. There is also the feeling of discomfort at ripping away the dog's reproductive organs.

Personally I wish we'd had Pilau done. I was persuaded out of it by my then partner and my brother. My Brother has absolutely insisted that his bitch, Amber, stays intact.

Spaying and neutering isn't the only way to prevent unwanted canine pregnancy...you can, y'know, not let your dog roam?

I asked earlier about the age at which the legislation mentioned, expects dogs to be neutered or spayed. I asked because there is a cultural divide between Americasn vets and British vets as to when the appropriate age wold be. As far as I know, American vets go a little earlier than British vets.


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