i mean that i believe that souls endure. the physical manifestation completes the person, but is not what gives one 'humanity'. I believe that i was 'human' long before i was born into this body, and will continue to be so long after i die. I've no idea when a soul first inhabits a physical body....could be before OR after or during birth. i just dont know. it doesn't really matter, i guess.

I don't think either Clodfobble or I were saying that.

I just went back and looked at baby pictures, and you are right. My daughter stopped being an eating/pooping machine at about 3 months. There's a person in there at 3 months.

It's a good thing to get one particular term right, and that's "human"

A thing is human if it has the right chromosomes. A living blood cell is human even if it is on the sidewalk. What we are discussing is either what human thing has rights, or what confers a new level of specialness to that human thing. The thread title calls this "humanity", which I find confusing. I prefer the term "person" or "personhood", in that all cells/collections of cells with the right chromosomes are human, but not all are persons.

I think all sides can agree on these terms and that the terms are neutral to the argument.

I did this with my daughter. Toward the end of my pregnancy, we would tap on my belly, and she would kick out at us. It was a riot!!

I don't really want to get too involved, but I had to comment on both of these statements which are complete and utter bullshit. There are many women that I know that were heartbroken when they had miscarriages and still consider them children. They felt and had services just the same as if a 5 month old would die. They are treated the same as a human child because to them (and me), it IS a human child.



My brother and sister in law are going through this. Whenever he laughs, the baby kicks, making him laugh, making the baby kick, etc etc. Needless to say, I don't know how funny my sister in law thinks this is. :D

That's your experience. My experience is different, not bullshit any more than yours is. :mad:
I didn't say people weren't upset. I said they don't have funerals.

So maybe only radical right wing conservative self-espoused religious fundamentalist whackos have funerals for their miscarriages.

What would you think of a woman who had an abortion, then had a funeral for it? :eyebrow:

Lots of people have funerals, they just aren't talked about because people don't like talking about miscarriages. After it happens, people that it didn't affect (and sometimes, sadly, people it did) don't acknowledge that the woman was ever pregnant, had a child, or had a traumatic event happen in their life.

I am sorry if I offended you, I probably shouldn't have used the word bullshit, but I have seen many women struggling with loss and with people treating their child like it wasn't human and doesn't deserve to be remembered or to have a funeral.

Usually the big issue with the Chinese abortions is the fact that it's due to China's one-child policy.

It's a Catholic thing.

They use dead fetuses to raise money? :eek:

a buck a piece. All proceeds to benefit pedophilia.

Fundraiser organized by NMBLA?:right:

No, NAMFLA.