I skimmed a lot here, folks. In fact, I only read about two posts after page 1, and even that I haven't read lately.

But I did notice some stuff about being a minister.

I'm not a particularly religious person, and I was unaware of the tax benefits. But I'd still get a kick out of being Father George. Imagine being able to properly bless things like glasses of orange juice and important papers.

http://www.ordination.org/

That why that 60% includes fruit, nuts, and vegetables as well. :)
I think when I last looked Nebraska was the largest producer of just grain, with one of the Dakotas close behind (I think it was south), but that could have changed in the last few years.

as I read this post, I had a cliff claven- trivia-worked at the post office-white socks joke brewing that had some real promise, but then you bailed yourself out with the science class assignment alibi. It was a close one, I tells ya.

Ah, my collage years finally pay off. I knew there was a reason I spent all that money

She's right. Quality of girls here is incredible. The really interesting thing is considering the diet here (hold the veggies, extra cheese, fat, bacon....) I have seen probably 2 overweight people so far in Switzerland as a whole.

If you think Switzerland is socialist you're only showing your own ignorance.

I'll sponser a political refugee claim marichiko ;)

Switzerland gives you a fully automatic rifle to keep in your closet, just in case.

Now, that's homeland security.

I do have issue with their renting space to the UN (I have the same issue in NY, though, so that evens out).

I read somewhere that the Swiss are well behaved because nobody minds their own business. If someone sees you, everyone, including the police, knows. Is that true?

that's why i posed it as a question. Now that you've seen my ignorance, would you like to se my vehemence?

That has not been my experience. Certainly, I felt a certain pressure from my family to conform when I visited there, but who hasn't experienced such pressures from their family, in one way or another? Other than that, nobody ever seemed especially interested in what I was doing. Everybody is too busy leading their own lives, going to work or school, taking care of their families, etc. Of course, I was never attempting to break any laws, either.;)

The country where I felt under constant surveillance (and may well have been) was Brazil. Whatever pretty face Brazil attempts to put on it, they are pretty much a military dictatorship. Armed soldiers can be found on every street corner. I never saw any such show of force in Switzerland. In Brazil in the city where I was staying, complete strangers would come up to me and recite details of my life (that I was staying with a professor of chemistry who taught at the University of Pernambuco, that I had just recieved a large shipment of books from the US, etc). This was disconcerting, to say the least. In Switzerland's sophisticated cities I never had an experience that was even remotely similiar. In my family's home villiage I was met with curiosity and friendly interest as "Rosa's American daughter," but no one ever reported my movements to the authorities.

Congress is indeed allowed to add amendments to the Constitution. Amendments may add something new, or repeal (take away) something old. Amendments MAY NOT be added that are contrary to another part of the Constitution. For instance, when an amendment was made to prohibit alcohol consumption (which was also an illegal amendment because congress does not have the authority to legislate all things or anything related to our bodies) and later wanted to change that, they repealed the amendment making it illegal. They did not add an amendment saying "Alcohol is legal". In Article 6 paragraph 2 of the Constitution it says no laws that are contrary to the Constitution may be created. An amendment is a law and therefore qualifies. You may not create a new amendment that is contrary to an old one. You can't have one part of the constitution say that something is legal and another part saying it is illegal.

The Supreme Court had already ruled income taxation to be illegal because it violated the apportionment clause in article 1 section 8. This is why in 1913, the income tax amendment was created and fraudulently ratified. This amendment required 36 votes to pass from the 48 states in the union. Philander Knox (Secretary of State at the time) claimed the 16th had been ratified by 38 states despite not having the required number of legal votes to pass.

Let me explain...

Several states have laws that when a new amendment is proposed, the legislature that receives the amendment may not vote on it and must pass it to the next one. This is to allow voters the chance to elect those who agree with their particular view on the amendment. Several states did not follow this procedure and since they violated their own state constitutions, their votes do not count.

Thirty-Three states engaged in the unauthorized activity of amending the language of the amendment proposed by congress, which is a power the states do not possess. Some of these had change the language to have the exact opposite meaning of the original amendment. Their votes also don't count. In some cases the governor of a particular state didn't sign the amendment even though required to do so, etc. Some states have no record of voting on it at all or voted against it but their votes were counted for it.

But even if all these irregularities, and illegalities were gone and the correct number of states did vote to ratify the amendment, it would still be illegal for several reasons. It violates and is contradictory to several parts of the Constitution.

It violates the 4th amendment; the government routinely searches through financial records, bank statements, etc. without a warrant.

It violates the 5th amendment; the IRS 1040 form says the information will be shared with law enforcement agencies and we are not required to incriminate ourselves. What if someone earned their money by selling drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. Tax offenders, are not given due process of law.

It violates the 6th amendment; tax offenders are not given no trial by jury and can not call witnesses, etc.

It violates the 8th amendment because excessive bail is the norm in tax cases and property is seized which falls under cruel and unusual punishment.

It violates the 9th amendment which says all rights NOT listed in the Constitution belong to the people by violating our natural right to keep the fruits of our labor.

It violates the 10th amendment which prohibits the federal government from taking part in or legislating areas in which they hold no authority such as a person's income.

It violates the 13th amendment which makes slavery (involuntary servitude) illegal by forcing us to work for the government without compensation and against our will.


Income taxes violate everything America was created for. You have mentioned that we live in a democracy. We do not live in a democracy, we live in a democratic republic. Our country was created this way to protect individuals from tyranny on the part of the majority. Democracy has its limits. Some things may never be voted on. The rights of one person are more important than the desires of millions, and no matter how many people vote to steal from another person, it doesn't make it right legally or morally.

The powers of government are very specific and very limited. The Federal government DOES NOT have carte blanche to legislate and govern any areas they choose and MAY NOT make laws that violate the rights of the citizens because the citizens are the masters and government is the servant.

That's not true. Your claim of fraud during ratification may have merit, but an ammendment can change any aspect of the Constitution. That is, in fact, the purpose of the amendment process. You can claim that income tax violates your human rights, and therefore shouldn't be in the Constitution, but claiming that it is unconstitutional on its face is fatuous.

The founding fathers put the amendment process in place so as not to bind future generations with the fashions of the time. This is a good thing, but it also allows future generations to make mistakes. Nothing in the Constitution is untouchable by ammendment.

Very true. An amendment may change any aspect of the Constitution. It may do this by adding to or repealing something. This may work for any part of the Constitution. For instance if in 1913 thirty-six states had followed thier own state laws concerning voting on an amendment, had not changed any of the wording, had the governors sign the bill, and sent it back to Congress repealing the aportionment clause and all of the amendments contrary to the new amendment, the amendment would have been legally ratified and be a valid law. But that's not what happened.

I'm sorry but the statement I made concering the fact that the income tax amendment is unconstitutional on its face is an accurate one.

Neither amendments (laws), nor any other law, or court decision may contradict any part of the Constitution. This is clear in Article 6 paragraph two.

I agree. The founders made the Constitution so we could change it. It may be changed by adding to it or taking away from it. Any part of it may be added to or taken away, but only within the areas that government has legal authority to govern and may never limit the rights of citizens. The Constitution was made to limit government and not to define or limit the rights of citizens.

The powers of government are EXTREMELY limited, especially the federal government.

Er. No. Quite the opposite in fact. Try getting information out the bank here, even if you're law enforcement you're going to have a hell ofa time, particularly at private banking and high level banking (1-3m+) where banks will make life living hell for law enforcement trying to follow a paper trail.

Also the only country I've found where smartcard/encryption ebanking login is standard.
Photography laws are incredibly strict and the level of privicy protection is higher than any other country I've come across.

I thought that was strange too. Switzerland is known for protecting privacy more than any nation on earth and minding thier own business.

Oh, my, god...best, comeback, EVAR!

I am so proud of you LJ.

(I told you I'd say something nice about you...and I mean it even)

No, I was speaking of little shit. Littering, jaywalking, pissing in the alley kind of stuff. Impolite or possibly misdemeanor as opposed to criminal or invasive. :)

I heard a story about a tourist who threw out some litter and was observed by a Swiss policeman. The policeman picked up the trash and ran after the tourist exclaiming, "Excuse me sir, but you seem to have dropped something!" The Swiss wouldn't have turned the guy in, but they sure would have bad vibed him. Looking at our own litter clogged streets, you think this is such a bad thing?

No, I'm not judging. I'm taking the opportunity to take advantage of having a couple of first hand sources to find out what I don't know about the Swiss.
Although, it's amazing they've been able to live in close proximity with the French, Italians and Germans without becoming contaminated. :D Anyone I've forgotten to piss off?

That is so fucking shitty, that they are charging you interest for their fuck up. :mad:

Ouch! Hang in there.

MotherFUCK that's soooo wrong! Sheesh! I send you vibes that a sudden stroke of luck falls upon you and you like...i dunno win the lottery or something...:D

[I think it is a creative idea, Radar. I think the theory works, but I have doubt that the real world implementation would be so ideal. [/b][/quote]

and what the strict libertarian view doesn't have a way to overcome is that the american public has become entitlement focused. people will vote for the politician who will take care of their personal priorities, even if it is exactly counter to the best plan for the nation.

it is a very good idea and on paper it works - just like most other systems. the downfall is that you have to involve people in this system and at the root of it all PEOPLE SUCK. we have the ability to screw up any good idea because the opportunity for corruption (even small scale) is too tantalizing for the majority of individuals.
if you think this is not true, just stop for a moment and ask yourself "did our (corrupt) politicians get into politics simply to screw the people over and steal us blind?" the answer is generally "no", even for the ones that i think are absolute slime. MOST (not all) of them sought positions of power to make a difference. as they climb the ladder that they themselves are corrupted a little at a time. sad but true.

Socialist communism - is a perfect system on paper, unfortunately the leaders will inevitably hold out special privilege for themselves at extreme cost to their "charges"

Representative democracy - perfect on paper until they people who are sent to represent us realize what they can gain personally by placing their needs ahead of ours.

benevolent dictatorship - even this is perfect until the per son on top realizes that they can benefit even more by screwing over the little people, just a little.


people suck. most of us don't mean to, but put in a position of power, most people will cave to the pressure, even if just a little.

as an afterthought - the best solution to radar's disgust for taxes is to drop the income tax and property tax altogether. a sales tax only system would be much more fair and equitable because with certain exclusions - food and medical care (necessities) the government can put into place a sales tax system that would pay for whatever is required for the maintenance of our nation and it is the citizen's choice to purchase goods and services resulting in tax revenue collections. this system would raise more revenue at less cost to the average american, because the thousands upon thousands of individuals not paying in any income tax(illegal industries, illegal immigrants...) would have to pay sales tax just like the rest of us.

this will never happen because the people who it would benefit the most (lower-middle class)will be led to believe it is meant to screw them over by their main sources of political info(union leaders and the grass roots political leaders)

And if that's the problem, the republic is doomed to collapse. Panem et circenses and all that.

i'd like to think i'm more of a realist than a pessimist, but i do believe our system (like all systems) is doomed to collapse. it won't be immediate, but it will happen. everything is cyclical. societies rise and they fall. i'm willing to bet the majority of the roman public thought their empire couldn't possibly collapse.

When I was kid growing up my mother use to smoke cigarette butts she found. The phone we had was a pay phone a 1/2 mile away. Pinto beans was the meal of the day almost everyday it seemed. We had a neighbor that had a few chickens. I borrowed my cousins .22 rifle one day. I sat outside the house and waited. Some of chickens were running up and down the dirt road by our shack and I shot one. Brought it into my mom and told her chicken tonight mom. No more beans for a few days thank god.

Well, you can hardly leave it at that, Pinto Bean. We need to know more to make some sort of suggestion. Why was mom so poor? Husband leave her? Mental illness? Substance abuse? All of the above? Oh, and welcome! Stick around, you'll like it here. Or, someone will mortally insult you and you'll never come back--it's always one or the other. :)

My father dumped my mother when I was 6. My mother was mentally ill and had suffered two break downs during her marriage to my father along with becoming addicted to prescription drugs. She tried to work but could not hold a job any length of time.

Just curious, Pinto Bean,.... do you feel your mothers' situation (mentally) is something genetically bothersome for your own self?

I'll admit I got lazy here and didnt read all 18 pages (hey, I read through every other thread I posted in, I deserve a break), but having lived in Hong Kong for a year and Beijing for three, and having travelled all around China, Tibet (it may be part of the PRC but I'll be damned if I'll call it China), and Mongolia, I've seen poor, and so if I have more than three outfits of clothes, enough food to eat whenever I'm hungry, and my guitar to play, I will never consider myself poor. Really, two out of three ain't bad, I'd sell some of my clothes for strings and/or food if I had to.

With my father in the military we've never quite been rich, but we've always had all we needed, and past... ten years or so, I'd go so far as to say well-off. Five laptops and a PC among four people sure ain't bad, even if two of those laptops are barely usable anymore. Especially when it comes to electronics, we spoil ourselves, even though it leaves us with less actual cash (and/or spending money) then we would like, and as much as I routinely complain about having no money, I've really got it good compared to a lot of people. I'd give up almost all of it in a heartbeat if it meant I could go back to where I lived before instead of staying here in Taiwan, but that doesn't mean I dont like it...

People in the US who complain about being poor typically have never seen (live or pictures) third world poverty.

Poor people here have a house, three TVs, digital cable, and at least one car.

I gotta admit... wolfs=thing= the old adage regarding: what's relative?

What's relative sounds like some Einstein thing. "I have no Nikes shoes to look cool in, therefore I am poor and must mug you"


Or, I am poor, thusly,....

because the tribes that control the ports of bay that may feed my family and the litter of birthed illigitimate bastards (that stink in their own shit), and I hope don't have aids....

AND the Unitied Nations can't do a damn thing about it. THEY are not Tribal.

We still have very poor people, they just look better because we as a society cast off so much usable stuff. :cool:

true dat Bruce,
we hire 3rd world countries to be our sweatshops.... screw the americans that don't deserve shit, and can be afforded to be unemployed.

Besides, mexico, china, and russia are happy to live on $500 a year.

I think "Dirt Po" is Po'er than "Dirt Poor"
;)

lol, like po is one "o" short of poo...

therefore a fart is less than shit.

aka... ones life may be shit? lol

Depression
 

I have suffered from depression and still do at times. I absolutely hate taking medication it makes me feel like a zombie. Mental health treatment to me is like black magic. The general public does not understand and pushes people away who struggle with mental health issues. A lot of people who struggle with mental health issues are very intelligent they just seem to have a void that others do not have.

that void can be scary, too. :(

why do poor people fuck and make poor lil kiddies?

It feels good and when you are po' there ain't a hell of a' lot more to do.

so you know this? how much DO you fuck? errr, um...I mean, how poor ARE you??

;)

how come "po" and "do" don't rhyme?

You have to understand that for a lot of the poor people out there, one of the reasons for their 'poorness' is because they are uneducated and not motivated to do better for themselves. Since they are uneducated, they do not understand the economic implications to having many children, but what they are probably thinking is that if they have more kids then they get more child tax credits and better welfare benefits and other things like that which act as an incentive for them to have more children, and the cycle goes on and on and on.

Yes. It certainly couldn't be because sex is enjoyable and protection is an inconvenience. It's because they can't wrap their minds around the "economic implications" that babies are expensive, yet they are well-versed in the specifics of the child tax credit. You know these poor people inside and out.

how come "daughter" and "laughter" don't rhyme? Huh? Stupid fricking English language.

Oh, a lot of poor Apalachian folk have a lot of chillen coz they just really like chillen. It's a cultural throw-back to being Irish or Scots/Irish. The Irish loved lots of kiddies around--even during the Potato Famine. Cultural.

Yes, I'm struggling with this as well... doesn't make sense.
In Random Family (different demographic, same problem), it seemed to come dowm to culture/tradition (emulating parents and others in community) and ignorance/inconvenience of birth control.

[quote=Brianna]how come "daughter" and "laughter" don't rhyme? Huh? Stupid fricking English language.

mmmm.......but daughter and slaughter rhyme....

Growing-up I was very poor, for US standards. I have been homeless and have actually known hunger. I do not wish to go into it more than that for several reasons that I, also, do not want to go into.
I know this because of the people around me growing-up. I remember when I was around ten a neighbor was telling his kids to have sex and I was surprised, sleep-over, his response was "well, s-what we were made for, we got the -quipment". It was not sarcastic or said with a hit of humor.
One of my few childhood memories.

I suspect you already know the answer to this one. It's because English is the melting pot of languages. We've picked up words from everywhere. An informative and quite entertaining book on the subject is The Mother Tongue: English and how it got that way.

yo momma is so poor...she can't even afford to pay attention!
yo momma is so poor...when I saw kicking a can down the street and asked her what she was doing...she said "Movin!"
yo momma is so poor...when she goes to KFC she has to lick other people's fingers!
yo momma is so poor...when she heard about the last supper she thought she had run out of food stamps!

:headshake

You like the momma comments, don't you? I've seen like half a dozen from you so far. Not criticizing, just noticing.

True, in some childish way I suppose, I do find some humor in replying to people about their moms. Half the time, I don't even think about it, but in this instance, I put those your momma's so poor jokes only because this is a dirt poor thread :eyebrow:

I'm so po' I'm bumpin' old threads to try and keep warm....

With my reduced salary since I have left active duty combined with medical bills from trying to use Tri-Care Reserve rather than totally depend on the VA, things are tough. On top of that, I still pay child support on 2 kids at the rate established when I was on active duty. Plus I support my adoptive daughter (not legal, but I'm the only one who has tried to be a father figure) because her mother is a severe drug addict and Bryanna has to live with her grandparents whose sole income is social security. Finally, I help out my father who as a retiree lost almost everything in the stock market a few years ago.

I'm so poor, I'm planning on moving into a tent on a little piece of property I own. It is my hope I will be able to construct a paleo style pit house to live in. I'll be able to save money to help put my 2 oldest girls through college. Unfortunately, there is little chance I will live to see Addie go to college, but she should be well taken care of with my survivor's benefits and her share of my SGLI.

I never know what to say about posts like yours Sarge. I'm lost for words. If you were in my town I'd find a way to help you somehow. Even if it was just to have you round for dinner once a week.

There are so many stories like yours. Most of us don't think about it as much as we should.

Pathetic response I know, but I don't feel it's my place to say any more.

It really isn't that bad of a lifestyle. I've lived in far worse conditions while in the military. I think I can be quite comfortable. Plus, I'm doing it for my kids. Anyone would do the same

I posted some pics of the pithouse I'm hoping to build. They mysteriously disappeared. Anyway, they are remarkably cool in the summer and easily heated by a pit fire in the winter. I plan to add solar panels for 12 volt batteries. Of course there will be no running water, but I can handle that. Here's a repost of the pics

Very cool. What more could you need? :)