*blinks*

In what way does you dipping into chat for a second and cutting and pasting the last few lines in anyway let you know 'what was said in chat'?

What about the five hours prior to that?

FFs.

Spexx, even I am pissed off at you now.

You can't know what goes on in chat unless you spend time there. You don't spend time there, so you don't know. All you have is a snippet. That's like saying you understand a book because you read a random paragraph from the middle.


Oh and Why has this suddenly turned into a flame fest? We were doing so well!

And what the hell was sniping about Jinx's comment? She was just disagreeing.



You all suck. Yes you heard me. Each and every one of you sucks big fat donkey dick. Bleugh.

You're pissed off at me because of the backstabbing in chat, which Jim admitted to. Please explain.

Hi Dana! How are ya?

Nope, I'm with Dani.

I like you Spex, but you've gone back to the old stand-by of claiming there is a Treehouse Club.

Your cut and paste from chat meant nothing - it baffled me.

All I understood from Jim's posts (in this thread) is that sometimes he slags and moans. You know what? If everyone I'd ever PM'd posted their PMs I'd look like a hypocrite.

Why? Because sometimes I'm mad and I slag and moan too. Not often. And it passes pretty quickly.

I was pretty rotten about LabRat once upon a time. I was very wrong - she was a lovely Dwellar and I really miss her. In my defense I never said anything positive about her on the board until I got to know her, and once I did know her I felt like a heel for my previous opinion.

Don't be a cunt Spex.
Don't take a thread trying to resolve issues and turn it into a spite-fest.
NO-ONE says you have to get on with LJ. There is more than one Dwellar that I have on mental ignore because I find them intolerable. They are not the whole Cellar. They cannot spoil my experience. I could respond snidely to everything they post but I would lose out if I did.

Back off.
I'm not part the Treehouse Club; I do not believe it exists. I'd just rather you let it go. This is only personal in that I'd rather you stuck around without imploding.

But the bottom line is if things here are that hateful and intolerable and biased, you may be better off leaving. I'll miss you, but I won't miss the vitriol - on both sides.

I'm sorry you and Dana feel that way. Not surprised, though.

This just brings up a very good point. People should just flat-out quit stalking chat. If you aren't there to participate, what are you there for? It's creepy.

I love how this subject conveniently diverges from the original point being made. ;)

Besides- I think people here are pretty open about it when they don't like your company (something to like about this board?) :). You being, anyone. Especially Jim. Are we saying Jim is two faced? I feel he is pretty straight-forward about his likes/dislikes when it comes to others, which is why we have this very thread to post this in in the first place.

I can't go back and do that now. BigV went through this thread and selected things to comment on. I saw it as exacerbating the already tense situation. (I was hesitant to reply to this post for that very reason....but I am only because it's you asking)I recognize that I'm the one that began this thread, but it is quite obvious that I'm not alone in my views.....no more alone than you and redux are.

I can see your side of this. To me, it seems that because you agree politically with redux, you are more apt to see him as a real being. Or maybe it's not because of politics at all. Maybe you honestly think that he contributes something worth while.

I said I don't read his posts.... i did say that. And I don't. I tried a few times... But now I get the impression that he just has his political point of view and offers the same counterpoint to the other political posters that I don't read. I never was much interested in politics. I have made my point about his and other people's domination of those forums. I'll let that stand.

as for telling BigV to go away? like he's not a real dwellar? Well, everyone has their own definition of a dwellar. My reaction there was to his saying that 'a little bird' told him to read this. (I wonder how spex feels about that) I imagine that he drops by occasionally at this point, but spends more time elsewhere. Maybe I'm way off there. In any event, I didn't like the arrogant way he posted his critique of how we were handling this when he is scarcely involved in the cellar. I won't say I'm subtle, but sometimes I make leaps and don't show my reasoning.

I hope we can let this issue settle down at some point and see if we've helped or hurt the atmosphere. Maybe.... If Merc, Classic, Redux and Spex can turn the spite knobs down from 11 to 7 or so..... we can all puull together as a team. I, for one will try not to bicker for more than 3 posts in a row! whaddaya say?! who's with me!?

From the perspective of one of the bad guys, I thought there were many valid and constructive criticisms, but also many questions conveniently ignored.

IMO, if one is assuming the role of facilitator, those questions should have been addressed.

I also got a good laugh out of the strongly urged suggestion to be more "real" and at the same time, the statement that it really wouldnt make a difference.

which questions in particular did you want answers for?

that's not what I was suggesting. i was saying that I don't demand to KNOW you. Just that if you want to be seen as a human, you should appear as one. It is apparently a difficult concept for some to grasp.

Look around the board for examples. People that share their flaws and strengths, fears and pride.....stories and boasts and jokes..... you make allowances for that stuff.... That's how people interact.

Those that argue in ideals and logic and facts..... they can only stand on those legs....and if your basic underlying premise is contrary to someone else, you'll never find any common ground with them.

Redux, DO YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS COMMUNITY OR NOT?

Jim....my point that I, or anyone, should be able to be a part of the community in the manner in which we chose....not by some standard that you or anyone else imposes....(and, for example, points not be awarded or deducted based on your personal feelings for someone).

IMO, your biases came through in the end.

If you're insinuating that I told BigV to read this, you are absolutely incorrect and more than a little obsessed with me.

Well, yes, of course you define the manner of your involvement. but you're fooling yourself if you think that people will be fair minded and treat you like everyone else if you won't even divulge your gender.

Life is a popularity contest at times. that's just a hard goddamn fact of life. People's perceptions are colored by their opinion of the presenter of information.

You are a member of this community. you don't need me to tell you that. but you do get my point, right?

no, i was just wondering how you felt about he and this undisclosed 'little bird' speaking privately. Wondering if that qualified as backstabbing in your rule book.


Why don't you and I try to be nice to each other from now on?

I'll go first.

I though you posted something funny the other day. I can't remember what, but I lolled.

Actually, I divulged my gender a long time ago....there is a pic here somewhere.

Hey, I think you were (are) well-intentioned, but as I said, IMO, unfortunately, your biases came through in the end, particularly with Big V (again, using your own standards of "active" contributor) and accusations of his being "pushed here by Spexx.

Your eyes are a lovely shade of blue.

They're green. quit looking at my tits.

whatever dude. I have biases. so does everybody.

what does that have to do with this topic? Do you think I started this thread because I don't like democrats?

so, did you actually have questions that were conveniently ignored, or were you just being dramatic?

He wasn't suggesting BigV had been pushed here by Spexx. It was more to do with a big storm that blew through here a while ago and damn near exploded the cellar :P BigV pretty much buggered off after that along with the new member who caused the storm, presumably off to the board from which said storm had arrived.




Does that mean me and Sundae are in the tree house club?

I think you started this thread to address a problem and IMO, for the most part you were fair and balanced.

In the end, IMO, you lost your objectivity..the questions ignored were those by Big V...but no big deal.

I think that's pretty fair. But there is a little bad blood there. It was a very particular situation that led to that bad blood.

Dana, thanks for the clarification. If that is the case, I apologize.

I really dont want to nitpick other posts or comments...but from my perspective, the objectivity as a facilitator was lost at some point .

And, contrary to Jim's assertion/suggestion from yesterday, I am not bitter, just slightly befuddled (by standards of being "real) and bemused (by some of the childish insults and personal characterizations directed my way) that went unchecked.

You could be specific and direct here, and perhaps get these things cleared up.

Well, if it's any consolation Redux, you seem pretty real to me :P



Good advice from Jinx as well. This is one of those rare opportunities that comes along every so often, to actually get things aired properly.

Sure.

Monster's posts? Dingleberries and Aspergers Syndrome?

Do you really think they contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Did I post anything to bring that on?

http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=664583&postcount=202

TheMercinary's charge that I was a "plant"....yes, that one was too funny and did not really need any request to prove it.

OK, just to clear up the one bit where he quoted me and I didn't respond.

I said that Dux comes across as less of a "real person" to us than Merc

V said that this made him laugh and then wrote "OF COURSE he's a REAL PERSON."

Dux, at no time was I suggesting that you are a robot, software program, or any other form of automaton.

I thought that was utterly obvious and would go without saying to anyone not looking for an argument.

I don't want to speak for Monster: but I think you basically copped for all the flak. I suspect her annoyance was actually a little wider than that, but you got into the line of fire :P

ok, not to nitpick here, but I just re read all 3 of V's posts. I don't see any questions. Only one ? and that was him talking to monster.

so...if not his....were there unanswered questions? or not?

the only reason I'm pressing here is because you are claiming that I'm being un-objective..... and If this is why, I'd like to address it.

I believe the argumentative cut and pasted post brought from another thread is what brought that on.

I still think Monnie was a tad unfair in that instance. Redux was defending himself against what was being levelled at him. I'd probably have done the same.

It's just that in doing so, he inadvertently played right into the very thing that's been so annoying elsewhere on the boards. In this instance, I don't see that he was in anyway the main offender.


But see, this is what happens when things get to boiling point. I completely understand how come Monster saw red.

Yeah, I wouldn't argue with any of that.

Again I echo Dana - you assume we are part of the Treehouse Club.

No.

We are part of this community.
You have completely ignored everything else I have written.
That disappoints me.
What? Should I name the few Dwellars I have a beef with? Should I stir up shit so that you realise I'm not part of a clique?

I'm not in any kind of Spex Hate Group. In any way, shape or form.
I'm not in any kind of LJ Love Group. Ditto above.
And I certainly don't conform to any "typical" Dwellar views.

Spex you are challenging what I love about this place.
Individuals, with very different views, able to air those without personal spite.
I want you to continue as a Dwellar. I will miss you if you don't. And yes, I apply the same standards to Merc et al. You can't control his posts, but you can control yours.

OKAY. This is the end.
No more from me.

SHUSH.

Jim...I said I thought you were well-intentioned and objective for the most part. I was referring to the link from BigV, but you are correct, it was not in the form of a question....and putting, V aside, HM's follow up post, which raised the question of objectivity.

Thanks for your effort. I mean it. For the most part, it was helpful and constructive...., despite the few laughable (IM0) posts by a few.

If I were UT, I would close the discussion and tell us all to move on.

lol


For one horrible, terrifying moment, I thought you'd rickrolled me :p

Fixed it.

I post...therefore, I am.

I don't think BigV ever left to go to anywhere. I believe, that like myself, he simply found it impossible to post in this place without a number of regular dwellars jumping all over his posts and accusing him of particular biases. There are plenty of semi regular posters who don't post much because some people around here make it unpleasant to be here in any real way.

To those people, and obviously you know who you are, I suggest you'd find things a lot more interesting around here if the environment fostered newcommers who actually might feel welcome.

As to the whole incident with PD. Well, I have some pretty strong opinions on who was really in the wrong there, but they're not popular opinions with the people who seem to think they run this place, so I'm not even going to bother.

Oh yeah, and before you decide to have your usual little dog pile, let me get in first.

Just fuck off. You suck and I don't like you, so nothing you have to say matters to me.

Well that's helpful Ali.

*shakes head*

This thread is descending rapidly again. FFs close it before something explodes.

I don't care if it's helpful Dana. My point is it's the same group of people trying to tell everyone else how to behave around here, and anyone who disagrees is turned into some kind of pariah.

I'm sorry if you happen to be friends with that group. My comments are not directed at you, but I refuse to have you or anyone else tell me when my opinion is valid or 'helpful'.

Do not lock this thread.

I withdraw neither comment -I had just come back from a week's camp with 4 kids diagnosed on that scale. Your posts made it seem like I was still there. That you should take it as an insult is more telling than anything else. Those kids are all great (well 3.5 of them are at least) -but hard work and very repetative with little comprehension when you try to explain hoew their behaviour affect people socially.

And I love the phrase professional dingleberry, thanks for reminding me. I must save it for the next one I meet IRL.

Furthermore/While I'm at it, BigV has a history of (a) crapping all over the board (b) coming heroically to the defence of any poster who makes it to the intolerably irritating point and causes someone to snap and tell it like it is (c) gunning for me at every opportunity. That's why I don't bother to read the majority of his posts, I don't have time for his little obsessions, don't care what he calls me ofr thinks of me, and certainly have no respect for his opinion on board matters (although I do occasionally gain amusement from his coming back here playing the whiter-than-white knight in shining armor -and calling others hypocrites).

As for the backstabbing thing.... it's only backstabbing if you pretend to like somone to their face. So why spexxvet should be obsessed with it is totally beyond me. ;)

It has nothing to do with who I am, or am not, friends with.

I just thought that this thread seemed to be heading towards something vaguely useful/peaceful/helpful and now we are back to 'Fuck off I don't care.'

oh, now here's a shocker.

the thread looks as if it's in danger of resolving into an amicable resolution....and who turns up?

why it's aliantha~! what a surprise!

and shockingly enough, she's trying to turn the whole thing into her very own pity party!

this NEVER happens!

except for like... the last 3 or 4 times....
christ.

It might have been helpful to some, but from my perspective, it's just more of the same. I don't see too many of the people complaining being the ones that engage much (if at all) with the ones they're complaining about.

Ever since I joined this place, there's always been at least one and usually more people who prefer to post in politics and current events who are disliked and ridiculed by some of the other regular posters here. What's the difference now? Nothing from what I can see. It's just the same people complaining about the same thing. BooHoo! Poor them. It's terrible how people are so mean to them and don't consider how THEY might feel about what's being posted.

FFS! Give me a break.

Grow up!

Oh fuck off Ali. Give it a rest.

Oh yeah, and like I didn't expect to see this post. As per usual, I'm not allowed to consider the situation and then post something. Oh no...I should post at a time that's convenient to lumberjim and his entourage.

This is the real reason I've chosen to post now.

I've sat here and read this thread for several days without saying much, and the post I made earlier in this thread went unremarked. The fact is, you're gradually getting to have your own little go at all the people you don't like here, as per usual, and you expect everyone to just sit back and watch it happen.

Well, I don't happen to agree with your point of view on most things, and I certainly don't now. You've made my time here virtually intollerable because i never know when you're going to jump on something I post and make it personal, just like you do to anyone else who disagrees with you. I'm fucking sick to the back teeth of it, and so are a lot of others.

You don't own this place, and you don't make it better. You just post here like everyone else. This is not your site. You don't get to call the shots.

You don't get to be the mediator and the arsehole Dana.

Choose one or the other.

well, that's one way of seeing it I suppose.

I can't tell you how to post but you can tell me?
I see how that works

I apologise for being rude. I still think you should give it a rest.


Just my opinion like. I just dont see much point in all this martyrdom.

Honestly Dana, my grievance is not against you, and I'd rather not have you take offence at anything I post, but you can't try to be peacemaker in one post and then the very next tell me to fuck off...can you? That was all I meant. There's no need for any apology.

I don't really see it as martyrdom. I'm not putting myself on a block to have my head chopped off. It's just a case of the same people doing the same thing and it irritates me. I don't think it's fair and I hold myself still most of the time, but this thread is going on and on, and nothing is going to change. People will just do what they do and others will let it happen. I guess everyone sees things differently, and that's what makes the world go around, but I am honestly angry that a small group have made it less enjoyable for me to visit one of my favourite places on the net.

I'm not insulted by childish attacks. I took it for what is what and laughed.

Still laughing that you stand by it. :D

Not to worry, they don't use chastity belts here. You can have all you want.

Now for something completely different ... my Merc impersonation:

:corn:

Pretty good, huh?!

I never said that someone was stabbing me in the back, Monnie. What were you thinking?

Nice! LOL

To Dana and Sundae.

I didn't bring up "the treehouse club", someone else did. But look at this thread. You can't deny that there are factions in the Cellar, and they're always the same. As much as you deny being in the club, I've noticed that in these situations, you *always* post critically of me. This could be because

A You feel I'm in the right, but there is *some reason* why don't post in support

B It doesn't matter whether I'm in the right or in the wrong, You'll *always* post critically of me

or
C You think I'm *always* in the wrong. Now that's possible. It's as poosible as either of you being *always* in the right or *always* in the wrong. And if you think I'm *always* in the wrong, that's ok - I won't call you a sick, twisted fuck, as I've been called. And please, if you've posted in support of me, just paste it here, and I'll admit I'm wrong.

But I have *NEVER* posted anything to you as dismissive, abusive, insulting, nasty, and rude as you two just posted to me.

I don't 'always' post critically of you in this sort of thread. I posted on this occasion because I disagreed with what you said, and was bemused and annoyed by it.

You seemed, to me, to be just causing trouble for shits and giggles.

And you don't think it is dismissive to simply lump my opinion in to mere factionalism?

:lol: @ jim. Love that dude.

Our two friends wrecked another potentially interesting thread. I will avoid the Cellar politics forum for a while. You win Remurk.

I am with Griff here. :) It was a great original post with the type of discussion we used to have. It's a great example of what this thread was seeking to address.

Thanks Cic, it really looked like they'd leave it alone but no such luck.

I think the problem might be that Redux doesn't know what you're going on about.