You seem to be implying that whether or not the person who brings a situation to fisticuffs is being childish, depends on whether or not they were trolling for trouble.

You also seem to be implying that whether or not a person is trolling for trouble, depends on whether or not they were armed.

Reality says that tw applies different standards to different people depending on his opinion of them, circumstances permitting.

I admit it. I'm a caveman not nearly as cerebrally evolved as the rest of you. However, I can walk the streets in the roughest areas because I project a stance of don't fuck with me. The criminals sense this and go after the easier target, sheeple.

If someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night and you & your family are locked in a bedroom, who do you want to come rescue you? A highly evolved man who will try to explain to the suspects error of their ways or a simple caveman whose sole intent is to save you and your family? Remember the decision of the responding officer must be made in a split second.

Oh, while you are pondering that don't forget the police have an average of a 10 minute response time. Are you going to defend your family for those 10 minutes or discuss with them how they aren't evolved?

In ten years you will be a weak old man, but still living in the might-makes-right world. No "stance" will protect you while you walk with a cane.

It's a fantasy scenario you paint but I don't have a family and there simply aren't many home invasions where I live. In fact I can't remember one being reported.

In peaceful Montco, the cops and their ridiculous cop personalities are as much or more of a threat to me than criminals. A good friend of mine was arrested for driving while hippy, and the bullshit he was put through and continues to be put through is truly remarkable. A few months ago I got a knock on my front door by a statey, who decided to be weirdly threatening... on the basis of an old moving violation.

In Philly one of the main questions is how much the city will have to set aside for lawsuits against the criminal activity of shitty cops.

If I was victimized I might not even call them. My experience in calling the cops after being victimized 25 years ago is the cop was a truly unhelpful dick who borderline accused ME of shit while I sat bleeding in an ER, and proceeded to do nothing at all whatsoever.

Editor's note. this post has been heavily edited from the original to be less abrasive

BTW this is not a referendum on your entire lifestyle, much of which I admire. That was a change in subject. The original discussion came from this: and that's what I would like to continue to argue, not that you aren't a proud caveman and whatnot. The point that got side-tracked is: just cos we were brought up with certain stuff doesn't make it right, and that applies to all of us, not just you. We must all struggle to get past what we were brought up with. At least a third of all our thoughts are superstition and bullshit that just got passed along.

UT, I harbor no ill will towards you. This is just a passionate debate. Evidently, we have had different experiences with law enforcement.

As far as being an old man with a cane, we have a saying, "don't fuck with old folks, they'll kill you." The use of force continuum allows them to use a higher level of force based upon their age and infirmity compared to the youth and physical ability of the attacker. I'm 53, but my disability status heightens the level of force I can use to defend to defend myself.

Here, we have open carry without a permit. Also, we have concealed carry with an easily obtained permit. We have the Castle doctrine which gives you enhanced rights to defend your property. This also extends to your automobile and allows you to carry a concealed weapon on your property and in your car without permit. Finally, we have had a stand your ground law in various forms for many years based upon case law.

As far as kids go, a good fist fight benefits the loser. It shows he stands his ground and stops bullying. Kids with guns, many kids have a hunting firearm in their car because they hunt before or after school. My 20 yoa daughter carries a pistol in her truck because she works late at night. My 6 yoa daughter has her own rifle and knows the consequences of what happens when she pulls the trigger. She can skin a rabbit or a squirrel with a little help. She has graphically learned what the consequences of pulling a trigger.

A child worries about his ego. Only a child (of any age) needs to stand his ground to be respected. Those are reasons (actually emotions) and justifications that Big Sarge provided to justify fisticuffs. Unfortunately too many adults still feel that way to justify fist fights, wars, revenge, or even torture.

Also amazing how one so fears an attack especially when America has never been safer. Superstitions replace reality when emotions replace knowledge. More big weapons and a need to justify violence exists because one fears rather than thinks? Because one's ego is so important? Because it is essential to stand your ground and prove you are a man like a childish Zimmerman?

Men solve confrontations by eliminating a need for violence. Yes, some violence is unavoidable when one adult is so much a child. But in most cases, violence is mostly due to someone who fears to be dissed rather than solve the problem. Too many adults actually fear their ego might be bruised.

Big Sarge called that being a sheep. Reality: a good fight only benefits the emotions in a child. Nobody wins - no matter what the emotions say. Violence is not how a responsible adult or responsible nation solves problems. Scary are so many who refuse to understand the difference between an adult and an emotional pre-16 year old child.

Children have not yet developed a part of the brain necessary to be responsible. So we do not let children drive cars. And should fear children carrying guns for the same reason. And yet we still have some adults who only think like children. Who justify their actions (violence) to protect an ego.

Scary is that some just don't get it. They actually think fisticuffs (or shooting your Uzi at a rival drug gang) solves problems.

That's what I said, you have a double standard. One for people who live the way you want them to and another for those who don't. Then you try to spin rationales for it. So childish.

George Zimmerman's girlfriend recants
allegations he threatened her with gun

Samantha Scheibe, who refers to Zimmerman as her "boyfriend," said in a sworn statement obtained by NBC News that she felt intimidated when she was questioned by police about the Nov. 18 incident.

"I believe that the police misinterpreted me and that I may have misspoken about certain facts in my statement to the police. I do not feel that the arrest report accurately recounts what happened," she said.

"I am not afraid of George in any manner and I want to be with him," Scheibe stated.

:p: Back atcha.

Her father was also lying about a threatening Zimmerman? Amazing how many girls are beaten up ... and later know he loves her. O J Simpson also needs women like this.

These guys need big weapons to protect themselves from women who threaten their ego. Otherwise they might have to use their fists.

That's sheeple talk.

Not merely nostalgic here, but this story is what you get when you let adults exercise JUDGMENT, instead of shackling them with zero-tolerance policies.

I agree with you, BigV

Ugandan Lawmakers Pass Measure Imposing Harsh Penalties on Gays
By ALAN COWELL
Published: December 20, 2013

We should let banks invest in anything they want. We should never require automobile safety features. We should never require all children to be educated. If the driver sees nobody coming, then he has a right to run a red traffic light.

Not all adults are adult enough to make responsible decisions. Many adults, using emotions for reasoning, make some blanket restrictions necessary. A majority is limited by many laws because only a minority, incapable of exercising responsible judgement, make some blanket laws essential.

We know from the worst recession since 1929 that adults in banks (who are supposed to be most responsible adults) made major, blanket restrictions necessary. Because many if not most bankers are not sufficiently responsible. Which restrictions are necessary? That's why restrictions are made pragmatically; not based in rhetoric and political biases.

We know that most adults will use a 155 mm howitzer properly. But some adults who cannot think like an adult means sales of 155 mm howitzers should be banned.

TW - Did you know that you can own a 155mm howitzer legally in the US? Same thing with flame throwers and machineguns. Tanks and armored vehicles are legal too. When was the last time one of these legal weapons used in a robbery or murder?

I personally own a Confederate 24pdr iron expedient mortar. It took no permits or background checks to purchase. It fires a 5.82 inch exploding ball with a range up to 1,700 yards. Though the carriage is being rebuilt, my oldest son and daughter fired it in the past.

Tom, we need to meet up. I could take you target shooting with some of my more exotic large weapons. I bet you would have a blast and it might change your mind. Plus we could go riding at night in an urban where there are lots of drug sales, muggings, and car jackings. That way you could see first hand some of the animals that roam at night and maybe understand why we carry concealed weapons.

Serious offer and maybe we could see things through each other's eyes

Uhhh - NO.