The Cellar - The right way to stop a bully

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- - The right way to stop a bully (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=24730)

Who said anything about anger or punishment??? Not me. Who said anything about "smacking" a child? Who said anything about not being friends with your children? Where are you getting all this?

As an adult, do you want your friends to tap-dance around uncomfortable truths? Why wouldn't you respect a child with the same honesty and forthrightness that you expect?

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Originally Posted by Flint (Post 717221)

NOT to be their "best friend"

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Originally Posted by Flint (Post 717374)

Who said anything about not being friends with your children? Where are you getting all this?

Honestly not meaning to be legalistic when I point out that you've posted two clearly different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint (Post 717374)

Who said anything about tapdancing around uncomfortable truths? Who said anything about not respecting a child with honesty and forthrightness? If anything I am saying the opposite.

As an adult, if you've ƒucked up, sympathy is not going to be constructive--it is going to be DEstructive to your progress as an individual. If you think your "friends" are people who would coddle you and make every effort to make you "feel good" about the situation rather than being concerned with the lesson you need to take away, then I guess you might miss that this would be doubly destructive to a child who is forming the values and principles that will need to last them a lifetime. From this, where you get "anger, punishment, and smacking" I haven't the foggiest notion.

Being friends with someone means respecting what will be best for their well-being.

As to your ORIGINAL QUESTION regarding being the parent of the little shithead bully, if you think he needs "sympathy" then you are speaking from some kind of bizarro world that I can't even conceptualize.

I think your definition of sympathy and mine may be slightly different. I'm not talking about cuddling and making them 'feel good' about the situation. Lessons can come in many forms and sympathy for the hurt need not negate the lesson, it can at times be the best route into talking through why something has happened.

Actually, much of this is because of your earlier post, which I have just reread. I am not sure if you edited it, or if I just misread it the first time, but what it says is that you would not let sympathy show on your face. That's somewhat different to not feeling sympathy, which is what I thought you'd said.

From the dictionary:

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the feeling of being sorry for somebody; showing that you understand and care about somebody's problems

from wiki

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Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. Also known as empathic concern, it is the feeling of compassion or concern for another, the wish to see them better off or happier. Although empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably, a subtle variation in ordinary usage can be detected. To empathize is to respond to another's perceived emotional state by experiencing feelings of a similar sort.[1] Sympathy not only includes empathizing, but also entails having a positive regard or a non-fleeting concern for the other person.[2]

There are ways of showing sympathy that aren't about making that person feel good. Showing concern, wanting them to be happier yes. But not cuddling them and making it all go away, that's not what I am tallking about at all. Making them hapier would presumably include exploring the whys and hows of what went on, and showing that you understand them, and that the lesson learned is enough.

Also, really, if i have fucked up, the person I go to for sympathy and honesty is my best friend J. Not so he can say 'there there it's all better', but so he can grimace in recognition of where I am at and drink a beer with me. He'll tell me I brought it on myself, but he'll say that in a sympathetic way. In much the same way I do with him when he's fucked up. He doesn't need to underline the lesson for me. I don't need to underline the lesson for him.

Oh, and as to the smacking issue: sorry, I realise you never said anything about hitting your kids. I was responding more generally to what's been said in the thread by other posters. Was a bit of tangent i know, but seemed relevant in terms of varying styles of getting a lesson across is all.

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Originally Posted by DanaC (Post 717386)

I think your definition of sympathy and mine may be slightly different. (Hot monkey sex) I'm not talking about cuddling and making them 'feel good' about the situation. Lessons can come in many forms (Hot monkey sex) and sympathy for the hurt need not negate the lesson, it can at times be the best route into talking through why something has happened.

Actually, much of this is because of your earlier post, which I have just reread. I am not sure if you edited it, or if I just misread it the first time, but what it says is that you would not let sympathy show on your face. That's somewhat different to not feeling sympathy, which is what I thought you'd said.

From the dictionary:

from wiki

There are ways of showing sympathy that aren't about making that person feel good. (Hot monkey sex) Showing concern, wanting them to be happier, (Hot monkey sex) yes. But not cuddling them and making it all go away, that's not what I am tallking about at all. Making them hapier would presumably include (Hot monkey sex) exploring the whys and hows of what went on, and showing that you understand them, and that the lesson learned is enough.

Also, really, if i have fucked up, the person I go to for (Hot monkey sex) sympathy and honesty is my best friend J. Not so he can say 'there there it's all better', but so he can grimace in recognition of where I am at (Hot monkey sex) and drink a beer with me. He'll tell me I brought it on myself, but he'll say that in a sympathetic way. In much the same way I do (Hot monkey sex) with him when he's fucked up. He doesn't need to underline the lesson for me. I don't need to underline the lesson for him.

I may be wrong, but I think your post is moderately improved, if less sincere, by these minor edits.

*grins*

There isnt much in life that can't be improved by adding hot monkey sex.

Eric Holder the Racist strikes again!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...ms-tough-luck/

It occurs to me as I watch and listen to and participate in discussions about this incident both online and irl, that while the footage might be brutal and quite hard for some to watch, it has opened up a social discourse about the true issues some kids are facing every day.

It might be unpleasant and it might be offensive even, but if we continue to view this issue as something periferal and 'not real' kids will still be bullied.

Whether you agree with any of the choices and decisions and actions of any of the stakeholders in this incident, we all must surely be aware that it's a good thing that the issue has been brought out into the open for all of us to not only address the rights and wrongs of the stakeholders, but also to consider what we personally should be doing to safeguard our children - either as victims or bullies - from similar outcomes.

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Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 717418)

Eric Holder the Racist strikes again!

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...ms-tough-luck/

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Here is the catch. DOJ will only investigate bullying cases if the victim is considered protected under the 1964 Civil Rights legislation. In essence, only discrimination against a victim’s race, sex, national origin, disability, or religion will be considered by DOJ. The overweight straight white male who is verbally and/or physically harassed because of his size can consider himself invisible to the Justice Department.

Does the DOJ have any legal grounds to investigate any cases that don't fall under the civil rights act? I don't think so, until congress passes a law against bullying. But we'll just blame Obama anyway, because that's the plan the real bullies have for America.

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Originally Posted by footfootfoot (Post 717675)

snap

double snap

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Originally Posted by Spexxvet (Post 717334)

Cite, or go punch someone, tough-guy-wanna-be.

OK, I spent the whole weekend punching a clown. I figured that would give you enough time to answer Pete Zicato's question. How you coming on that? In case you forgot I'll repost his question.

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Originally Posted by Pete Zicato (Post 717326)

How do you think this should have gone and what would you expect the outcome to be?

Be specific.

Now on a more serious note Spexx I think you misunderstand the motivation behind the thread and some of the comments. I don't take any pleasure in someone's pain. I very much support and give a huge shout out to anyone who finally realizes they don't have to take that shit or live in fear. In this case I recognize and am pleased for the boy who has decided enough is enough and chooses to stop being a victim. I also support life lessons that can benefit all involved at a young age. In this case the former victim learned a lesson but hopefully the bully did as well. Hopefully he will realize that other people aren't there to make him feel like billy bigboots. Hopefully in the future he will choose not to pick on others he perceives to be weaker than himself.

Sometimes lessons are painful but the pain involved is not the source of enjoyment but merely a catalyst for change.