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-   -   What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona? (http://cellar.org/showthread.php?t=22610)

jinx 04-27-2010 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 652115)
The interpretation I had from the city attorney was that cops can absolutely approach any person on the street under the "trespassing by illegal alien" provision of this law, assuming "reasonable cause" (undefined) and suspicion (undefined) and charge them with trespassing by an alien unless the person can show that he is a citizen or legal resident.

That is now the underlying crime and lawful contact (the cop is investigating possible "trespassing by illegal alien")...no need for a reliance on investigating a separate crime or traffic stop for a separate violation.
I'm sorry, I can't just take your word for it over what is actually written in the law.
If what you are saying were actually the case, it would be a clear 4th amendment violation and not worth the paper its written on.

Redux 04-27-2010 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx (Post 652121)
I'm sorry, I can't just take your word for it over what is actually written in the law.
If what you are saying were actually the case, it would be a clear 4th amendment violation and not worth the paper its written on.
You shouildnt take my word or the city attorney's word....but it is the interpretation of many attorneys.

The DOJ is currently reviewing the law for just that reason.

It is not unheard of for states to pass laws that clearly violate the Constitution....one only needs to look at many recent state abortion laws that have been thrown out.

jinx 04-27-2010 07:11 PM
Abortion is not mentioned in the constitution. Illegal search and seizure is.

Redux 04-27-2010 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx (Post 652124)
Abortion is not mentioned in the constitution. Illegal search and seizure is.
Agreed.

It is not a perfect analogy...but abortion is a protected Constitutional right (within limits).

States often enact laws that they hope are written in such a manner as to stand the test..but suspect might be unconstitutional (but popular), with the intent of getting a federal ruling on exactly how far a state law can go before crossing the legal line.

I'm not suggesting that is the case here, but it is not unheard of.

TheMercenary 04-27-2010 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicman (Post 652026)
Again and again, Until we secure the borders, nothing will change.
And that's a fact.

TheMercenary 04-27-2010 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 652106)
LAWFUL CONTACT now includes the new definition of trespassing.

If you are standing on ANY public or private property and the cops think you are suspicious, they can require you to produce proof of citizenship or legal residency.

I was speaking with an attorney for the organization that represents cities in AZ on another issue today and his greatest concern is the potential liability exposure and the real possibility that cities in AZ will not be able to get liability insurance to cover the far greatest risk of civil suits/awards.
:lol: what bs....

TheMercenary 04-27-2010 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux (Post 652120)
The federal law allows it.

AZ currently does it. CA has chosen not to do so.....blame Arnold.
Blame the violent protests by the Hispanic support groups who oppose any kind of control.

Redux 04-28-2010 05:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMercenary (Post 652133)
Blame the violent protests by the Hispanic support groups who oppose any kind of control.
What violent protests in Cali?

Cite?

xoxoxoBruce 04-28-2010 07:02 AM
Seizing the Post Office, stealing the American flag, and running up the Mexican flag.

Redux 04-28-2010 07:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 652203)
Seizing the Post Office, stealing the American flag, and running up the Mexican flag.
I dont recall that.

Was it one person? a group?

Cite?

I do recall the immigration rally in Los Angeles a few years ago...one of the largest ever....half a million people.....no violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Un...eform_protests

What is more violent....waving a Mexican flag or the backlash by the opposition of burning a Mexican flag in front of the Mexican embassy?

monster 04-28-2010 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberjim (Post 652024)
if you're driving, you should have your driver's license with you.

can an illegal immigrant get a driver's license in Arizona?

If you're a legal immigrant on a VISA, wouldn't you keep it handy? or know the numbers by heart?
You are supposed to, but the cost and hassle of replacing it if it gets lost/stolen by some illegals wanting papers to doctor means most legal immigrants lock them safely away. Fortunately for me, I'm white and I have a Michigan Driver's licence. Well I did until I got it stolen in Santa Fe. Then I was lucky that I had my passport/greencard with me when I was stopped by a cop. Maybe i was also lucky that my whiteness wasn't stolen :rolleyes:

Remember the number? no wai. Wouldn't help anyway.


(I don't even know my social security number.)

Spexxvet 04-28-2010 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 652203)
Seizing the Post Office, stealing the American flag, and running up the Mexican flag.
How many people were injured or killed?

ZenGum 04-28-2010 07:57 AM
Meanwhile, in 2010 .... an economic boycott of Arizona is cooking up. The first cancellation? The annual conference of the National Immigration Lawyers Association. Yah really. :lol:

monster 04-28-2010 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spexxvet (Post 652213)
How many people were injured or killed?
85% of them

Spexxvet 04-28-2010 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster (Post 652224)
85% of them
85% of all of them, or just upper management?


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