Shhh. Merc. Stop that right now! You are not allowed to ask those types of questions. You know, the one that the Dems would be asking if GWB was still in the BigSeat. But the Savior is in town, and the first commandment is "Thou shalt not question your government."

Why can't people pay for their own cars, health plans, etc?

Spend, spend, spend... where does it end?

Schumer: $2 Billion More Not Enough For 'Clunkers'
New York Senator Wants $4 Billion For Wildly Popular Program, Says Senate Really Dropped The Ball Initially

http://wcbstv.com/national/cash.for....2.1109985.html

So you quote an mpg, but can't quote the car? Shame. 'Cause I'd love to buy a second-hand with that mpg, but can't fins a dealer who will go anywhere near that sort of figure.

Wait a fucking minute, I didn't quote mileage, I gave an example of why the program would be just as effective for used cars as for new cars if the object is to improve mileage.

You can't find cars with that mileage?
For 2009;
Accord 22-31
Cobalt 25-35
Malibu 22-33
Focus 24-35
Altima 23-32
Camry 21-31
Accent 27-33
to name just a sampling.

And the same cars for 2006;
Accord 23-31
Cobalt 22-31
Malibu 21-29
Focus 23-31
Altima 21-29
Camry 21-31
Accent 27-32
I don't see a lot of difference there.

Dealers down here are matching the Cash for Clunks programs with $4500. Ok so you take the sticker prices (Which is BS pricing to start with) and they drop the price $4500 and add another $4500 off of that, say on a brand new Ford Focus that is a good bit of change, most anyone should be able to get a loan on that. Well unless your credit is crap and you can't manage your money. Sounds like a pretty good deal.

City (MPG)24 (2009)
Hwy (MPG)33 (2009)
Hwy (MPG)35 (2009)

I got caught behind an older Chevy Suburban at the gas station yesterday. $93 fillup for one occupant. If people can afford that, they can easily buy their own new car with decent mileage. I can't get past the idea that Congress is pissing away our money on temporary stuff for selected individuals who will continue to make stupid decisions. This program is flat out stealing.

I doubt very much that they'll give you a $4500 dealer discount on a focus. very much.

maybe including rebates....they might have a $1000 mark up in a loaded focus.....no dealer will lose $3500 on a car if it's not being reimbursed by the manufacturer.

Especially in these deals, where they're not going to make anything on the trade in. Somehow the, "lose money on every sale, make it up on volume", doesn't work in the real world.

A lot of (most?) people don't realize the manufacturers have been steadily sliding down the percentage of MSRP that the dealer keeps, for a number of years.
Back in the Detroit hay days, the dealer could get 20%, (more on land yachts), but those days of double digit percentages are long gone.

OK, I'll give you the accent, thanks for the example. For the rest, though, especially the 2006, the lower end of their range is below the 24-26 MPG you suggested (and I misread 26-28, sorry), and given that a used car is an unknown, wouldn't you think such programs would assume the worst case scenario?

I don't disagree that it might have been a better program if it was also extended to used cars, I can just see some reasons why they might have been excluded. I'm also very leery of used cars and their claims to mpg.

The EPA numbers are estimated mileage for city and highway mileage. When I gave an example of trading, "a 1980 land-yacht getting 12/14 mpg" for "a 2 or 3 year old car that gets 24/26 mpg", it would have to be averages as the numbers are far to close together to be the city and highway numbers... except my Ford pickup that got 10mpg at 25mph empty and 10mpg at 60mph with a ton on. :rolleyes:

You know what my problem with this program is?
it royally fucks every college kid out there looking for a cheap car. Now the government is paying these dealers to destroy the cars I'M looking to buy!

Don't fret, there are many on the used lots already that were sold before this program came about. And if this program persuades more people to buy new, then the used car market will have more cars per buyer which might bring prices down ;)

It's heartbreaking to see this perfectly fine Volvo S80 destroyed in the name of... something. All that work and engineering simply being destroyed. Don't watch if you are a car fan, or have ANY better use of your time. Just watch the first 10 seconds to see what level of car is being destroyed here, not exactly a "clunker". It takes them a full 4 minutes to actually destroy the engine, running some sort of sand mixture instead of oil, what a testimony to Volvo...

It is not actually productive to an economy to simply *destroy* such things.