[quote=MaggieL]My guess its *that* is because their homeland is completely in the hands of thugs and crooks, and ours largely is not.[quote]

:lol:
god, that's precious.

:lol:

If you really believe that's not the case, you're invited to move and let us know how much better it really is down there. If their government isn't crooked, where is all the oil money?

That's always the come back: move. come up with something fresh, will you?

"My country--Love It or Leave It"--right? :lol:

Ah, so you don't *really* beleive it.

As for "something fresh", you don't seem to be doing too well in that department yourself...one trivial disparaging sentence and a smilie won't get you very far.

"My country, love it or leave it" sounds like a pretty hollow accusation considering the topic of the thread is millions of Mexicans willing to break the law to leave it and come here.

Then you know it has always been a problem and an issue.

That is absolutely correct, but the one thing is that some how in the whole grand debate of things, it has become both the United State's fault for illegal immigration, as well as our responsibility to fix it. Why doesn't anyone take a look at the policies and practices south of the border and understand that they are promoting the illegal immigration of millions of people. Hell, for a while there, Mexico was supplying maps of the US at crossing points for illegal immigrants, among other things. There may be an economic incentive to come to the US, but there is just as much of an economic incentive to just get the hell out of Mexico. Mexico needs to do more to create jobs there, increase thier own standard of living, clean up their government, crack down on drug trafficing, and start enforcing their side of the border as well. Because if they don't, then it will be up to the United States to unilaterally move to protect our borders, whether it be with walls or the national guard or even making it a felony with jail time.

IOW they are all evil because Americans pay corruption for the oil. Meanwhile the little guy for gets nothing for oil and tried to start his own business - agriculture being a best way to start a third world business. So he plants cotton. The US government issues massive subsidies to American cotton farmers (corporate welfare) so that American cotton sells in Mexico for less than he can grow it.

So he tries corn. But American subsidies intentionally applied to subvert free markets at the expense of foreign producers again quash that Mexican's business. He tries sugar. Same thing. He tries cattle. Same American government 'corporate welfare' quashes his business.

Meanwhile the Doha round of GATT to stop this American 'corporate welfare' is on the verge of collapse. Those 'so good and decent' Americans fear that evil countries will make us conform to free trade. And MaggieL, from her previous posts, completely approves.

Jose Mexicana and most of the world go to Cancun to demand that America stop quashing foreign businesses by enriching Archer Daniels Midland, et al., America, and France instead say FU. Cancun breaks up three days early. MaggieL does not care. Those evil Jose Mexicana got his just due.

MaggieL instead blames all this on Jose Mexicana. It’s all their fault. Because he cannot grow crops, he grows and exports drugs. After all, he is only providing what Americans desperately want. He is selling a product not massively subsidized by American corporate welfare. Or he goes to America to get a respectable job. No matter what he does, MaggieL still calls him evil. It is all his own fault.

One cannot blame Americans. They are the good guys. Rush Limbaugh tells me so. MaggieL cites her previous posts that says this is exactly how she thinks. Or maybe next time MaggieL will answer the question with an answer or a specific URL. Meanwhile I am simply summarizing MaggieL's latest answer.

Jose Mexicana now has no choice but to find jobs in a country that creates jobs by issuing corporate welfare.

What happens if we were a free trading nation? Archer Daniels Midland, et al either must sacrifice their record profits due to no corporate welfare AND move to Mexico and Central America where crops grow better. But we can't let that happen. Americans will lose jobs. And so we need millions of Mexicans and other Central Americans to do those jobs.

MaggieL instead blames it all on those evil Central Americans. She don't need no stinkin' facts. Somehow she just knows American oil companies don't pay corrupt Pemex officials for the oil. It’s all Jose Mexicana's fault that he cannot start a productive farm and that he does not get Americans to pay him oil money. Sounds like a repreaching of what Rush Limbaugh (drug addict and money launder like those evil Mexicans) preaches.

MaggieL - did Rush even mention Cancun? Or is Cancun too messy for a propagandist to mention?

Meanwhile oil industry corruption is widespread where American oil companies operate in other third world nations. Nigeria. Indonesia. the K'stans. How to stop corruption? Many companies nationalize their oil industry in a desperate effort to stop corruption that American oil companies (and MaggieL) turn a blind eye to.

But it’s all Jose Mexicana's fault. MaggieL says its so. Therefore it’s all his fault that he must also flee to America where corporate welfare has created too many labor jobs and immigration laws don't permit enough workers to take those jobs. But again, MaggieL tells us this is all Jose Mexicana's fault. He's (not George Jr) is the sucmbag.

Or maybe MaggieL would like to post a logical reply next time rather than making back handed comments. MaggieL, are you a Rush Limbaugh type who only need declare something - and then it must be so. Since you still provide no reasons, then you authorized me to state exactly how you think. Maybe this time, answer the question - why must they come in such massive numbers? Previously MaggieL blames it all on Jose Mexicana. MaggieL is invited to this time maybe answer the question that she repeatedly fears to answer - complete with supporting reasons for his opinions.

I didn't authorize you to do dick. You're just as boring as ever. Everything is Bush's fault...except it takes 5k of text per post to drone through it.

The US is the cause of all this evil because they buy oil from Pemex, and Pemex gives all the money to the Mexican government. Obviously not buying their oil would solve all these problems, and suddenly all the Mexican "little guys" would be rich and happy. Maybe they should sue us to make us stop buying their oil

Yes, you're right about it all, tw. Every single thing that's wrong on the planet, (and some places in orbit) is the fault of the US in general, and Bush and his big business cronies in particular.

And yet again we reach that magical point in time where Maggie ignores tw for a while because life is too short to spend it all feeding a dreary troll, and tw claims the victory won by dint of his unassailable...erm...logic. Yeah, that's what it is. Logic.

Bri, we already know you think Maggie is a bitch. Come up with something fresh to add to the argument or go back to complaining about an education in English Lit that forces you to read AE Houseman. If you can't get the beauty of A Shopshire Lad, you're in the wrong major. If all you can add to political disussions is name calling, why don't you start dating UG? If all you can do about the evil professor is to continue to read his e-mails and take his phone calls, maybe you deserve him. Meanwhile, get your head out of your ass before you start making comments to Maggie in political debates.

Sober up and move on yourself.

How come people's solutions to personal attacks are always even lower personal attacks?

Dick are the only facts you have provided. Based upon MaggieL's post, she has no idea why illegal immigration exists. That would be true if Rush Limbaugh propaganda is being used. She blames Jose Mexicana for all his problems and does not even deny it. Just so easy to lump all Mexicans together to blame them all; stereotype to promote a racist or biased attitudes. You were accused of stereotyping previously by another and are now doing the same again. You even blame Jose Mexicana for his problems? Amazing that when myths are confronted by facts, then suddenly those facts hijack a thread. Amazing how facts can harangue when they are only guilty of being denied. Denial based in personal bias, Rush Limbaugh logic, and myths. So far myths and bias being only reason for this massive illegal immigration.

MaggieL - you are speculating -stereotyping - almost to a point of racism or hate. I stayed out to see how far these myths and speculations go. Immigrants stealing social services from Norristown is a classic Rush Limbaugh propaganda ploy – big on hype and little on substance. Money invested in America's future – low wage workers irrelevant of where they came from. Somehow you forget that Norristown social services are invested where the most productive Americans will come from.

All I asked for are "reasons for why illegal immigration exists". I even provided facts - such as Cancun. Since you don’t know about Cancun and a world wide outcry, you then attack? Attack to mask no knowledge of Cancun, et al? You don't know what GATT and Cancun are, do you? You have no idea why illegal immigration exists - and don't want to know. Again, classic of hate promoted by Rush Limbaugh reasoning. Blame Jose Mexicana because our government uses corporate welfare to drive farmers in other nations out of business. Are such details too messy? Do they make posts too complex for Rush Limbaugh logic?

But show me corrected. Answer but one question with logical facts this time. "Why does illegal immigration exist?" Do we blame it all on corruption in Pemex (which is mythical nonsense)? Or do we blame Jose Mexicana as you have done? After so many posts, those are the only reason you have provided. Do you even know what GATT and Cancun were about? But maybe that is asking too much in one post. "Why is massive illegal immigration so necessary?" - the still unanswered question that begs for a simple irrefutible fact. Not bias. Not personal attacks. Just a same question still not answered.

Where do repeated requests for an answer to a same question constitute lower personal attacks? It's not difficult. Either MaggieL has an answer or she does not know why massive illegal immigration is necessary and exists. Provided were numerous hints to a few reasons - ie Cancun, GATT, corporate welfare, why Jose Mexicana cannot even start a farm. And yet still we blame Jose Mexicana for all his problems. We blame him if he finally makes a productive business in drugs. We blame him if he responds to underground advertisement for employment in the US. And we blame him because his children - America's future - get educated in America. At what point do we not get emotional, answer the question, and therefore understand the problem?

Where does any of that constitute lower personal attacks? Hopefully the spirit of Rush Limbaugh and posts from Limbaugh's disciples will eventually be exorcised from this thread. It's a simple question that MaggieL has yet to answer. Maybe I should be asking why she does not answer it? No. It is such a simple question so easily answered if that fear of illegal immigrants was based in logic.

Whoa, slow down cowboy, that was aimed at Mari.

Well, gee, that hadly matters...he's got to have *somebody* to harrangue.

After all, he stepped in to answer a question addressed to someone else so he'd have an excuse to once again engage in that endless colloquy whose sole function is to serve as an expository platform for "Economics, Ethics and Geopolitics according to tw".

As I said, life's too short...

Time to start establishing some facts; eliminating political rhetoric, myths, Rush Limbaugh decrees, and unsubstantiated rumors. Your post also applies to others who have a problem answering a simple question. MaggieL (and others) has strongly opinionated solutions for a problem she cannot even define. She cannot even say why massive illegal immigration exists. Instead, she complains about being harangued when she is the one who apparently is blaming Jose Mexicana and other victims. How is one harangued when a question only demands logical answers? All she need do is post a logical answer to a simply question.

Instead, she complains about emotions while this question that will not go away still remains unanswered. "Why does massive illegal immigration exists and why is it so necessary?"